The Official Political Debate Thread (P. 34)

I am familiar with the many theories out there. Someone made a poster of all....

Congratulations for the supreme court ruling yesterday that ended hundreds of years of American citizens being deprived their rights. I am of course talking about the ruling that finally allows gay marriage in all fifty states. It was a long time coming and as usual, this country lagged behind many others, but it finally has arrived. This was a hot topic on this thread for years. And it got heated. I and others were arguing for the rights of these people as citizens and as human beings. The other side argued for their right to make them second class citizens. They were in the wrong, I and the others on our side were in the right. And no, that is not a one sided view or being arrogant, it is a fact of right and wrong, no more complicated than that and crystal clear to see and understand. If you are going to strip someone of simple, easy to understand rights, you better have a great reason for it. As in it is causing tremendous harm to a large portion of others. In this case, gay marriage harms no one at all, except maybe bigots. There were a lot of arguments for not allowing gay marriage, all of them totally hollow and without any merit at all. You had the, "But marriage is between a man and woman." Yeah, it was, because gays were not allowed to marry. And until recently, often persecuted and killed. A few years ago it was illegal for inner racial couples to marry. A few years ago blacks couldn't eat in a restaurant with whites. A few years ago, slavery was an American institution. Times change and wrongs are righted. Then you had the, "It's against my religion" arguments. It is also instrumental to know that many voiced their....

Randy,

100% in agreement. Our country's 2-party system only limits our potential for any substantial and real change.

While I am glad that people are trying to fight against racial injustice, I just am not confident that change will come.

A lot of people are focused on symbolism and are not sure exactly how powerful we are as a whole, so I believe people will either tire out from protesting, and/or will be too easily satisfied over small change that doesn't move the bar of social justice much, if at all.

Politicians will always aim to give as little as they possibly can in order to convince the public that they are the ones you want to be in charge.

Here is my take on Trump and why I dislike this man. First of all I can not see how anybody can support a person that lies so much. To be a leader or a president of the United States you should be a person who is honest, tries to unit if there is a division among the people of this country. Trump has been just the opposite. He got into office with the help of the Russians and then the Russians transferred all the data to WikiLeakes to create a scandal on Hillary one week before the election. It was never proven that Hillary had destroyed any servers etc etc. So Trump gets in and right away his aim was to destroy the legacy of Obama. Everything from claiming Obama was not a legal citizen to trying to destroy the Affordable Care Act which Obama passed with no help from the republicans. It has always been a thorn on the republicans and pledged that they would not help Obama pass any bill whether it was a good thing for the country or not. Trump right away was showing his true colors as soon as he took office attacking Latino's calling them rapists and other not so nice things, also attacking Muslims as being a danger to this country, attacking athletes for taking a stand against police brutality calling them sob's. Most of the athletes were black. Supporting white supremacist that were marching in the Carolina's. He said they were good people. Trump has shown he is a racists and will support his base only which is about 25%. But it does not take a genius to figure Trump out, just look at who....

Hi Addiction, hello Axle. It has been a very long time since I have posted on this thread and to be honest I never thought I would again. I agree with what both of you said, Addiction about system with more parties and about social change. I hope it happens but in this hyper charged political environment it is difficult. I mean look at gun control and climate change. Nothing. But here is to hoping Axle, Your remarks about Trump are spot on. I will add this: Along with all the interesting things Trump has delivered, one the most obvious is how bankrupt and hypocritical the GOP is on their stated values. He has shown that nothing they espouse to win votes really matters to them at all. What is it the GOP has always espoused, taken the 'high ground' on? Law and order. The constitution. National defense...and of course morals, such as they see them. Now lets look at what Trump has shown all this to mean with them. Law and order: Trump not only should have been impeached, over several issues, but he should have been charged with federal crimes. He clearly obstructed justice in the Mueller case, he abused power in the Ukraine situation and broke the law again in paying off his stripper with campaign funds and lying about to boot. Yep the law and order party absolved him in impeachment with only Mitt Romney allowing his conscience to vote as the evidence showed. Trump has abrogated the institution over and over again including ordering people, important witnesses in cases involving himself not to honor lawful subpoenas to testify. Imagine if you or I ignored a subpoena from congress? You know what would happen. And here is where it gets worse. Trump and GOP have shown that a crooked president has a complicit Attorney General and party....

Great to hear from you Randy! I can't agree more with your post. I just wish that more people see what is going on. I'm hopeful that there are far more decent people than otherwise, and will show up at the polls in numbers never seen to save this the soul of this great nation.

Dave, Thanks. It is good to hear from you too. I hope you and family are doing well. And I'm sure your little one is not so little anymore, lol. I shake my head at the moment we live in and what the GOP and their followers have done to this country in terms of ending our democratic republic, covid and climate change. This is end result when you have an oblivious fool in the white house supported by the attorney general, his party and large block of voters who either are too dumb to understand facts or choose to ignore them for political reasons, who are willing to sacrifice everything to win. This country and world are now in peril because of this man and his legion of zombie followers. You know Dave, I am a democrat but if a democratic president and party had done the things the GOP and Trump have, I would want him impeached and I would want that democratic senate expelled. It's not about party but about saving our democracy and dealing with facts, with evidence concerning covid, climate change and a host of other issues. Like you Dave, I can only hope that enough people understand what it going on and vote to try reverse the course we are on. I hope despite party, they vote for once only on the facts that are so clear at this moment on so many vital fronts. Sadly we are also at the point that if Trump loses, we may still have a final crisis to deal with. He will not accept a loss at the polls and will cry "rigged" election. His zombie followers, who believe covid and climate a change hoax simply because Trump said they are will believe that too. They believe everything he says. And what will they....

Randy- yes time flies lol. I hope you are doing well. You are one of the best posters here and we definitely missed your voice.

I was never into politics and even considered myself a Republican. But after what has happened to the country, and after doing more research, it became clear to me that the Republican party is dead. The blatant corruption, abuse of power, decent into fascism are all what the framers of Constitution feared. Not to mention the the lies, racism, incompetence and the utter selfishness of the few in power willing and wanting to impose their will on all.

This election is likely the final chance everyone has to restore order and keep democracy. Even then, it might be too late. Trump and his minions are already planning to invalidate the election results:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

But we all must not give up. Vote and keep fighting and do what we can until we can all collectively breath a sigh of relief when normalcy returns. And after that, like you said, we must hold this criminal wanna-be king and his enablers accountable for their crimes.

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the very nice words. That is very sweet of you. I always loved posting here about the team and sometimes other things. It was such great fun and of course the crew was great, both those who supported what I said and those who were my foils. Just a blast. We had some terrific times here in so many ways over so many years. I will never forget it.

As for Trump and his minions, yeah. I read that article the day it came out. Since he and then don't live in the real world or a world of facts, it is hard to see how they will accept the fact of his election loss, if it comes to pass.

And if he, and they, don't, then things could really get interesting, as in will we be the ones to see the end of the Republic? Nothing lasts forever Dave, so who knows what will transpire if this nation gets pushed to that point.

Trump and his complicit GOP senate and Attorney General along with all his citizen supporters have already hit hammer blows at our rule of law, the efficacy of it and the constitution and our system of checks and balances.

I'm not sure how well we will ever recover from the damage done, Dave. Sometimes as with Rome, the repeated, separate blows are part of a process over time that just destroys the whole edifice and eventually brings is down over time.

It remains to be seen how much damage will yet be done, how lethal it will be, between now and the election and after that date, if Trump wins....or loses.

Randy (check your PMs, sir),

I am scared about how focused everyone is on *just* this election. Yes, Trump is evil and should have been impeached ages ago, but he's not the only evil our country faces.

Replacing Trump with Biden can help, but not as much as people are hoping. I doubt the U.S. will be done with quarantining and social distancing until after Spring 2021, the middle class is still being diminished, and the rich keep getting richer. I doubt any of that changes by solely getting a new president.

It really terrifies me how tunnel-visioned most Americans are on just this election. There's so much we need to correct structurally, and I am really hoping the momentum from protests and BLM maintains and continues past this year and the next, lest we want we maintain status quo.

Addiction,

Yes. There are many problems to be resolved. And in the current state of intransigence I'm not sure how many will.

But there is very good reason people are focusing on this election. You have a criminal delusionsl president in charge and he is willfully undermining and destroying the laws, precidents and the constitution that the republic stands on with the complicity of the chief law enforcement officer in this counrtu and his entire political party.

I have never in my life seen a election to be more fixated on nor for better reasons.

Getting him out is the single biggest issue facing this country before any item can be addressed.

100% agree. We gotta get Trump out of office no matter what.

All I'm saying is, we can't be satisfied by just getting Biden in the White House. Once that happens, and as someone who feels indifferent to both candidates, I would be shocked if Trump won, we need to continue the momentum for BLM and focus on the endless list of issues plaguing the middle class and below.

Addiction,

I agree with you 100%.

I am of the left of Biden, he was not my first choice, or second or third. But there is a large part of the party that will demand real solutions to many of our problems, including BLM. And Biden needs their support to win. And they will want solutions to problems if he does win.

The big news of course is The Emperor now being flown to Walter Reed Hospital. Odd that he would do that for a hoax virus, isn't it?

He is for one time reaping what he has sown. All the thousands his attitude helped infect and kill. I guess he should have worn a mask and taken some common sense precautions instead of ridiculing those who did.

He is also receiving cutting edge treatment for the hoax virus, the kind not yet available for us.

And that prompted a guy on CNN to ask, why isn't he getting Hydroxy Chlorlquine instead, as he recommended to Americans?

I thought that was a classic question.

Well, apparently Trump is recovering. Very hypocritical that he didn't demand to stuff himself with hydroxy because he was on TV multiple times pushing it like a snake oil salesman. Then again, these Republicans have been the definition of hypocrisy.

And for sure- even if Biden wins if the Dems don't re-take control of the Senate, it's going to be stagnate-city once again for legislation good for most Americans. So it's imperative that every or most of these Republican senators up for election are voted out.

You know Dave, so The Emperor releases this video from his hospital the other day, saying, Ok, I get it, I understand the virus now. I'll tell you about it.

Well first off, I don't need him to tell me about it. I have understood it for months because I follow the news and listen to what the doctors have been saying. It took him this long, to get it, to understand it?

Then he shows just how much he doesn't get it by taking that publicly opp ride to wave at his followers who are camped outside the hospital. And that van is loaded with poor slobs who have to ride with him, to protect him and his life. A courtesy he could not repay by forcing them into a situation where they are cramped into that van with a covid positive person.

What a callous, ignorant piece of ****. Which he proves over and over and over again.

Exactly Randy! He doesn't care about anyone but himself. I just wish everyone sees him for who he is- a despicable, fraudulent, chaotic, lying, narcissistic racist who is only in office to stay out of jail and enrich himself. It just boggles my mind that he still has 40% support. I get it- he's a useful tool for McConnell and other money-above-all-else Republicans to achieve their agenda. But what good are tax cuts when basic safety is constantly an issue for the majority of Americans? Out-of-control COVID, inflammation of racial tensions, distrust with law enforcement, rampant gun violence, and erosion of Democracy- just a problems of the current State of the Union.

I just hope it will be an overwhelming election victory for Joe Biden, and that this great country can move on towards normalcy, decency, and healing. I truly wish that some of the remaining 40% will look past their hatred for liberals and do what is right for the future of the nation.

Dave,

That 40% is stunning....but sadly not unexpected. Because those people have devolved to the point where fact and evidence and reality no longer exist. All that exists and is real for them is fox news, trump and Quanon. I've seen so many of them interviewed and have spoken to many and they might as well be saying Santa Claus is real or the world is flat (and a surprising number do believe the latter) that is how divorced they are from reality. And if the Super Spreader in Chief told them those things were true they would believe it.

For sure Randy. It just boggles my mind why there are still people supporting this draft dodging, tax dodging, science denying, Putin-loving criminal. This parasite paid $750 in taxes whiling living a life of luxury- if that's not socialism or free government handouts I don't know what is. I actually do think there are a lot of good people in that 40%. Perhaps it's the hate for the left, or they are trapped by tribalism. But whatever the reason I hope that they will eventually see through this actor-in-chief who has no business in leading the country.

I just stumbled across this trail looking for an alternative to the Lakers excuse threads.

I think, for better or for worse, Putin's horrible war may have has solved a few of our problems:

1. Trump has supported Hitler 2.0. C.ya Orangeman!

2. Compared to the Russian govt -- fifteen years for demonstrating -- our govt. doesn't look so bad.

3. Oil prices and inflation doesn't seem to be a trick of Joe Biden.

4. Putin won six "elections" with over 95% of the vote. "Stop the Steal" my a**!

5. This war will accelerate electric car production.

More to come!

I really believe that Biden is a good person and has tried his best to unit our country. But the division in this country is deep and the Republicans have been brain washed that the election won by Biden had a lot of fraud and that the election had been stolen from Trump which was another BIG LIE. Several states investigated to see if there was any fraud and nothing was found. Voting machines, mail in ballots were all investigated and nothing was found to where the vote would change the out come of the election. But even today Trump keeps preaching over and over to Republicans who attend his rallies that the election was stolen from, and was is puzzling about this is that his base which is around twenty percent really believe it. He even tried on January 6, 2021 and insurrection lead by no other then Trump, his right hand man at the time Rudy Giuliani. He actually wanted to pull a coup just like dictators do in third world countries. He could have stopped this out of control mob from breaking windows and doors to get into the capital, but he did not for many hours because he wanted his vice president to over turn the election results so that he could stay in power. The vote of the people did not mean anything to this man, the Constitution meant nothing to him. Pence refused to carry out his request from Trump and told him he could not do such a thing. But by studying why the Republican party has changed so much, I see where many behind the scene movement is behind all this movement that is actually under mining our democracy and I pin point most of it....

For real

Is Trump and his revenge trying to over throw our democracy? All the moves he is making seems like he wants to overthrow our government from within. This has gotten millions of Americans to worry as to what his ambitions are?

The moves are really odd. A lot of these policies are more like Make Russia Great Again.