The Official Political Debate Thread

Well, I must say that the Kardashian phenomenon is one that I have never understood being thankfully not totally inundated by the lower levels of American Pop Culture, that in case there may be some out there that are unaware, is on many levels a principal reason why Americans and their culture have become the butts of so many jokes elsewhere in the world.

I never had been interested enough to find out just who these people are, but I decided in this case to find out just what it takes to become American Pop Culture icons in this day and age. I decided to find out just what are the qualifications necessary to be made societal examples in the U.S., people admired, and worthy of being emulated.

This is the best answer that I found: "The father, Robert Kardashian, was friends with O.J. Simpson. Kardashian's license to practice law had expired three years before. He reactivated his license to aid in O.J.'s defense, as a volunteer on his legal team. He sat by O.J. throughout the trial. Cocaine dealer William Wasz claimed that he sold coke to Kardashian, O.J. Simpson and Nicole Simpson. Wasz also said that Kardashian and O.J. were involved in money laundering, prostitution, pornography, sports betting, and point shaving. That's why the Kardashian name is famous...kinda. I would imagine the only reason they have a reality show, is that Kim Kardashian is good looking, and she has a sex tape. Which, as we all know (Paris Hilton), is pretty much all it takes these days."

I guess I am just an old fuddy-duddy, but I find this an extremely sad commentary and a total moral indictment on our present american society. The idea that we can accept as examples, such people as scuzzy as these is an abomination. It is no wonder that elsewhere in the world we are seen rightly as a decadent and declining society. We had better wake up!!!

Umm have you ever seen when our celebrities go over to Asia or Europe? They go buck wild.. Compared to them USA is mild.

Cuckoo states, "I guess I am just an old fuddy-duddy, but I find this an extremely sad commentary and a total moral indictment on our present american society."

I could care less if a sex tape makes you famous. The more serious breakdown that concerns me is that some fool can shout "Liar" at the President in the middle of his speech and not only keep his job, he also gets fame and money out of it.

But I giuess we are all bored waiting for the season and we are digressing about everything.

Go Lakers!

Maybe that man should get a medal. Nobody cares what your or my political viewes are, Save that crap for CNN and FOXNEWS.COM. Nugget of truth for the future, its never bright to express your polital stance on a basketball message board . Or any board for that matter. Chances are %50 one way or another dont give a 5hit where you stand.

Obviously, I agree with the exception that what we have been talking about here is a political commentary. Basketball fans are not so one-dimensional that they are not also people with viewpoints on many subjects that touch our lives, and this is as it should be. My comment, at least, refers to a societal problem within our country, and not a strictly political problem. It is not inappropriate to have opinions about such things though this is principally a basketball forum. Whether or not people give a crap about such comments is for them to decide. I am not enlisting proselytes, just giving my opinion in this case, for what it is worth...

STOP THE MADNESS!!

Comdemned states: "Maybe that man should get a medal. Nobody cares what your or my political viewes are, Save that crap for CNN and FOXNEWS.COM. Nugget of truth for the future, its never bright to express your polital stance on a basketball message board . Or any board for that matter. Chances are %50 one way or another dont give a 5hit where you stand."

Mine was not a political statement. I dont give a cr*p what your views are, there are some things that should not be done in a society:

1. Choke a coach.

2. Go into the stands to fight with fans.

3. Don't shout "Liar" at OUR President. Yes OUR President.

If you don't think he is OUR President, then you have no business on any forum, basketball or otherwise. Just go to another country.

Yeah all the hate our president gets for trying to better our country while picking up the broken pieces left by BUSH after the eight years of terror in which he reigned is absurd. I dislike all parties but the Republican party in my opinion is slightly the worst of the two evils. I'm only 22 years of age so in my lifetime I've seen Bill Clinton do his job well only to see Bush take us to the depths of hell. Not to mention I've done my research on Reagan and he was the most corrupt, evil president we ever had. When he died and everybody acted as if he was a hero it made me sick to my stomach. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost because of his motives and he allowed drugs to pollute our streets with the help of the CIA. Then he turns around, smiles at the American people, and starts the "War on Drugs" and the "Just say no" campaign? Two-faced lying evil man. The last republican (Bush) had to fix the voting just to weasel his way in to office. I don't know Obama anymore than any other American and ten years from now we may learn he wasn't sincere but for the moment he hasn't shown that he is anywhere as bad as certain celebrated presidents. Bring all the hate you want.. denounce our president because of his skin color or because he's a democrat. Republicans have only hurt our country these past 3 decades and I'm tired of the BS. If you're rich or 65+ years old I understand why you're a republican. If you're not.. you look like a fool. The young people of this nation had....

I generally don't get into politics on the Lakers board. And I do not think this is the place for politics. My original post that started this was not meant to be political. It was about civility. And that no matter what you may think, President Obama is OUR President and should be treated with the respect that office is due from ALL Americans. Hopefully, this is something we should all agree on,

I do, however, know what we all absolutely agree on. And that's to beat every pretender to the Lakers' throne this coming season. And to beat them down good.

2009-2010 World Champion Lakers. On to a FOUR PEAT!!!!!

no side is worse than the other. In fact, this whole democrat/republican thing is what has torn our country apart. You might say the republicans are bad because they seem like greedy people, but I can give many more reasons why the democrats are bad. Both parties suck. they should just get rid of the whole democrat/republican fiasco.

This is exactly what I was implying would happen. Good Job. Hope you learned something. I also love the "go to another country". As if to say, "go sit in the corner". HA!

I will now show you the 2nd thing never to talk about in a forum other than on www.ilovejesus.com, for educational purposes only. What is written below is not actually how I feel.

Your are christian arent you? It shows. Believe what I believe in or ill hurt you.

On a side note, Clinton got impeached by the HOR. Why? Liar

I don't see what is so bad about mouthing our political views. Some people like to say what they think, even if no one is going to listen. Maybe it is in the wrong thread, but so what? Not like there is anything more interesting to talk about this offseason. You don't have to read the posts you know.

This and the guy above me both have very good points. And I thank you for this. I also wasnt expecting to ready about some political garbage in a topic about Lamar and his new Gf, but now that I know I cant unread the first post of political filth, I have chosen not to read any of the responces other than to the person I was trying to enlighten. Saving me from what I was trying to save him from, getting sucked into debates about my ex-president having a bigger penis than your ex-president or vice versa.

For some reason politics are something that always come up on this forum, why don't we just make a "Politics" thread or something of that nature in the Everything Else section? Then you guys can have at it.

Somehow, I regret now having made any comment. It seems that from a comment clearly involving a reflection on American pop culture, that this somehow degraded into the thorny thicket of personal politics. Certainly, not my intent.

By the way, there is a forum where people can express their political viewpoints if they are so inclined, but it is not this one.

Hey cool. I learned a NEW MOD POWA.

Carry on.

Maybe you have been waiting for, but not most of the rest of us. As far as I am concerned, Princess Jamila can continue admiring himself in the mirror, and telling the world that he is the next best thing after apple pie. I am not impressed.

We want Boston. We always want Boston. Let the Swampdwellers become carp fishers. Until they prove otherwise, they will remain just a footnote in the historical annals of the NBA, and nothing more.

A prediction. If Scott Brown can manage to buck all of the dirty Chicago politicking, and ACORN election rigging, and win in, of all places. the most liberal state in the Union, Massachusetts, then Cleveland will not make it to the Finals.

IhatetheCeltics,

Never say 'we all' or 'none of us' or 'everyone' when discussing issues. That's never the case and too many times people use those all inclusive words when talking about an opinion.

There were those who hated the idea of trading Drew for Garnett, me included. Better to say, "thank god those of us who wanted to make that trade were not the Laker GM." That would be more accurate and would give creds to those who did know better instead of implying they did not exist or no one disagreed with that move.

I wasn't just against that trade, it drove me absolutely bonkers when we made the offer to the Timberwolves. I wanted to kill Kobe and Mitch.

Am I proud I was against that trade? Damn right I am. And I always will be.

And I want you to know that I am not dogging you Celtics, just pointing out that one must keep in mind that never are 'all people' in accord with a proposed trade or move or an opinion and its in error to say that.

I always love when the 'experts' on tv on any topic are wrong about something and then they say, "we all thought that was going to happen." Um..no...not all of the people did. Alot of them yes; a majority sometimes. But never all. Just wanted to point that out to keep the record str8.

Ditto.

I concur Steve with all your points on Boston, especially the politics. I'm hoping and praying Brown can pull it off. Then maybe Obama and the Dems will finally wisen up and figure out that the American People are looking, listening, and paying attention to the crap they're pulling. Hope and change my arse! I just want to see Pelosi's speech if he wins. Priceless!

Yikes! Get that pic out of here! ha ha

If anyone has been paying attention, and I think you have, I want nothing more than to pay back the punks in Green.

Yep,

Your right Spankees,

59 perent of the American public want the public option in poll after poll. Yet Obama chickened out on it and did not use the reconcilliation process to pass it over the blue dog democrats and republicans heads. There comes a time when you have to stand up and do whats right, especially when the american people clearly tell you what they want-the public option, and not some bastard, hybrid bill.

Obama and the democrats will now reap what they sow. They did not give the people the public option that they wanted and they will pay a huge price for it. So it is with cowards.

I just read in the L.A. Times the other day that the dems are in danger of losing their majority in Congress. And I say Good Riddance!!! I have never been a fan of the two party system, but things were never as bad when there was a Republican majority. The dems have really spiraled this out of control. Now all they have to do is oust Obama in 2012, which won't be that hard of a task, considering how poorly he is doing in office. And to get back to the main point of this thread, the Celtics don't even worry me. They keep talking about how they will be better when KG gets back and is healthy. Will he ever be completely healthy? That's what they thought would happen when he got surgery last year. "Oh, we'll get 'em next year when KG is healthy." And the guy is injured again. The Cavs really worry me the most.

Obama isn't even that good of an orator without his teleprompter always with him. Have you ever heard him try to speak without it? "Uh, yeah, I think that, Uh, this health reform is crucial to uhhh, our children's uhh.....future." It's easy to sound good when you are reading words off a screen. My 11 yr old cousin could do that and sound presidential. I was like, "This guy went to Columbia and Harvard Law?" Just give me someone with some good experience in public service, and some common sense, I don't care if he went to Harvard or community college.

Wow.

This from the guy that nearly went postal for days in the Johnny Ireland/gay marriage thread when someone dared to suggest an opposing idea?

With all due respect, Randy, while I agree with what you said above, this smacks of blatant hypocrisy to question someones one line of verbiage while being very heavy-handed with your own opinion when it suits you.

Bastard,

Also with all due respect, what on earth are you talking about? What does my defense of gay marriage have to do with my correctly pointing out that it is an error when someone says EVERYONE WANTED to make the Drew for Garnett trade?

Sorry Bastard but you have completely lost me here. Can you please explain what you are talking about in much more detail because I don't even know how to begin responding to your comment about my hypocracy or anything else you just mentioned, lol.

I really look forward to your response because I just don't have the slightest idea how you are linking these thoughts or ideas or what you are even saying. I have read your post twice now and still don't get your point at all. Excuse me if I seem slow or dense. Please explain this a bit more so I can understand where you are coming from.

Celtics,

How do you think we got where we are now? Who do you think was running things the last 8 years before the last election? lol. Who spent us into bankruptcy? It is fine to attack Obama, I have no problem with it, but when you say it was never this bad under the Republicans, forget it. Just as bad and in lots of areas even worse. They inherited a country that was in the black from Clinton. What did Bush and his gang of theives leave when they left? A freakin disaster thats what.

Please people, there's enough blame to go around. But to exculpate the

Republicans or try to revise history now and say it wasn't so bad is pretty funny to say the least.

SPQR, when I said things were never as bad, I was talking about simply Congress. Yes I agree Bush and his team left a mess, but that isn't what I am talking about. If you want to look at the whole government, not just congress, then yes, i would definitely agree with you, that republicans were just as bad. But I am simply talking about Congress itself. And yes Bush inherited a surplus and turned it into a deficit. But taking away the war, I just have a hard time believing the democratic majority in Congress during the past 9 years had nothing to do with the current state of our country either. The president is the top man, but you can't disregard the people making the laws. Of course I haven't lived that long, so I can't speak for how things were decades before. So I should have probably said things weren't as bad since I was born.

Celtics,

Very good. I understand where you are coming from. By the way, I too am not a fan of the two party system. In fact, I wish we had four or five. I have voted for third party candidates more than once. The funny thing is this: I have spoken to many people in real life, lol, for want of a better word, who also say they want other candidates from new parties. But they always in the end go back to Democrats or Republicans. Most tell me, "well he couldn't win anyway." Lol. Of course he can't. Not if no one votes for him because no one thinks he will win! Its a self fullfilling prophecy! Its so funny. Like people who always say that we need new representatives, but then keep voting for the same people from their state. I guess they mean, we need new representatives, "except mine, who I will keep voting for." lol. I guess in the end I would say the American people get exactly what they deserve and nothing more.

Not seeing too many Obama HOPE and CHANGE bumper stickers lately....Keith Olbermann just sharded his Obama underoos tonight when he found out a Republican won in Mass. Time to Eat it Keith! Taste the Brown teabag buddy!

Even Rachel Maddow keeps spinning in her Harry Potter booster chair while Mr. Hardballs to her left looks like he drank the whole bottle of tequila from the bar they are televising from. LOL

I wish these Leprechauns make the finals this year. I'll do anything if that happens. I just wanted so bad to see they get their *sses spanked by the Lakers before they retire in crutches.

I wish I knew how to split this thread and stick it in a more adapt forum for political dealings. Spankee, I too find it hard to defend the Republican Party. In my view, both of our major parties have betrayed their trust with the electorate. I just spent a good part of my morning following the absolutely shocking results from the Massachusetts Senatorial contest. Though I can understand why the Republican Party, senso strictu, will now try to bask in the light of the aftermath of this particular contest, I feel that they have little to do with this outcome. Insofar, as there are republicans that are in open contrast with the present administration, they can call victory, however, for me this is more a product of a mounting tsunami of people that having voted, many of them, for President Obama in the last consultation, they voted for him in his chamaleontic centrist version. Unfortunately, that is not how he has since attempted to govern. The change you can believe in has become for many a question of forcing much of the american voting public to confront a question that has been implicit within our society since about the start of last century. The fact, and it is a fact unfortunately, that this administration has been proposing change that would alter radically the manner in which most americans wish to view themselves as political animals, is a mistake. The great majority of americans do not wish to have to entertain the knotty questions of whether or not they wish to live in a socialistic society dominated by an arrogant and elitist minority of highly motivated leftist idealogues that have by their own actions shown the country that in their viewpoint, the american voting public,....

How do they say it Cuckoo? **** rolls downhill? In this case it starts at the top with Obama and it spread out like a cancer on Capitol Hill. Why can't the left admit that Obama's agenda was socialism and that he was just a rockstar that got elected and not someone that had the competence to run our country? The majority of us Independents and Repubs can admit that Bush failed us and our country, but try and get a lefty to give up on the Hope and Change that their messiah promised. Not likely. Right now they're pissed only because they see their party eating crow and the kool aid is tasting sour, but hey they wanted change and could not anticipate the horrid change that this administration and congress was to provide. Now a new revolution has emerged and whether they like it or not it is mostly conservative. It's not about a certain party and not about a certain politician per se, but rather an anti-socialistic referrendum on the Euro-style change that the majority of American's DO NOT want!

Judging by the thread's title, time must have ran out if we're now solely on politics. ha ha

Well back to sports.............. the Lakers are set to make a visit to the White House on Jan. 25th to kiss the feet of the annointed one..........maybe have a beer summit and play a little game of horse on BO's b-ball court! Maybe Kobe and Phil can help Obama draw up a new gameplan for Healthcare yet alone a new gameplan for running the country!

As you may have figured, I was just busting some chops.

I forgot about the trip to the White House since LA will have Washington as part of their roadtrip. Isn't X supposed to teach BHO the triangle?(which Good God, I can think of a million things more important as leader of the Free World than this).

Wats up folks where do i start?? HOW DO Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT OBAMACARE ????

Harry,

First off, tell us how you feel about it!!!!!!!!

lol....this right here should explain something.

Now i'm not a supporter of either Dem or Republican as I think neither has 'real' power, but i'm glad this fellow won.

Harry, I would rather have you give your opinion based on what you have been able to discover and synthesize on the subject. This is, after all, why we all have brains. I do have an opinion in merit, but it is long and complicated. Suffice to say that the original premises adduced by this administration as being sufficient reason to put together this "whatever it is", does not pass the smell test. In every way that I can judge it, it does not provide universal coverage, it does increase taxes, hugely, it does hit the middle class, it does not provide for tort reform, it does make a shady deal with big pharma so that they have an essentially monopolistic special relationship with this administration, it does provide a special relationship for the unions effectively establishing a new class, union worker, and the less priviledged non-union workers that will have to make up the money gifted to the unions. Last, but certainly not the least, it provides for the establishment of practices that I had fervently hoped to never see in the United States, and that I have only seen in more extremist regimes historically, both leftist and rightist, and that is a mandate to buy into the system, whether you need it or not, and providing monetary penalties, and even to the point of incarceration in case of non-acquiescense to this diktat! This is not the America that I know, unless we start calling it Amerika! It simply does not pass the smell test, and it simply does not fulfill in any manner the original premises adduced for its' purported necessity. It appears to me, therefore, that the tacit intent is not so much to provide universal health care in any....

We need Insurance reform, not Healthcare reform. That is the problem. Let the private companies compete like regular companies. Don't let a couple dictate the cost and have government fine them if they don't follow the regulations. We should be able to have companies compete across state lines. Government should try and fix the fraud in Medical and Medicaid first before they try and come up with a new government option. Conservatives have given Obama ideas, but they were not socialistic enough for his agenda so he shut them out! The people want a balance of power because the wacko's on the left and the Bush people still left in the Republican party cannot be trusted! This was evident last night with the vote of Scott Brown in Mass. We need some bold and fresh ideas for a change which Obama and Congress has fallen short of!

You said it all. I was just too lazy to say everything i wanted to say, and if i put it in simple words, it was going to be something like the stuff I bolded in your writing. This so called reform basically puts our health care under the control of government, and it would basically continue an important step in the elitist agenda: controlling our lives and taking more of our $.

You talk about both parties needing to take their heads out of their butts, but I believe the real architecture of power is in a globalist scheme controlled by the elitists. The elitists are the bankers, the major corporation CEO's, etc. I think the Dem's and Rep's basically argue about the issues that don't matter to these elitists, but agree on the things that are important to them.

I fully agree with you Baad. I do wonder however, if you had the same indignation when an Iraqi threw a shoe at OUR president. No indictment here, I am just stunned by how many people get outraged at one but the other is somehow acceptable. Sorry, I detest political pundits...people who put a political party or ideology above the well-being of the country. I am not a Republican, I am not a Democrat. I am an American and until the (R)'s and the (D)'s figure out what is truly important, I hope they both collapse under the weight of thier incompetance.

I may have to take a leave of absence to check into a mental clinic to cure a repentine loss of I.Q.! I have discovered that I have in the course of just one day, become stupid.

I discovered this about myself, while listening to a Stepanopoulous interview post-Massachusetts debacle with Barak Obama.

I must say that it was a revelation that which I learned, and I never would have guessed it in a million years. I discovered that the reason that the Democratic candidate lost the election, is because we are "angry and frustrated" with George W. Bush. Just one small doubt remains, and I am ardently hoping that after investigation I might be able to reassess my sudden lowering of intelligence, and this small doubt is if there is any logic in the electorate taking out its' anger and frustration against a REPUBLICAN President (George W. Bush), by punishing the Republican candidate (Brown) so much that they decided to elect him by a landslide.

I also discovered another disconcerting item. I discovered that the reason that I have objections to the so-called Health Care Reform is because I am stupid and misinformed, and that if I really had any possible modicum of normal prosimian ratiocination that I would just love this proposal of law. All this time, and more so each time that this administration has come out and explained themselves ad infinitum, I have always come away with a more negative impression. They have been explaining it to me until they have become cyanotic, for nine months, and I still don't get it. Well, that's just me. I am just too stupid to tie my own shoe laces.

Beautifully stated. Either that or we are totally brainwashed robots that are programmed by the Republican party and anti-Obama agenda pundits!

Quick somebody slap us all before we wake up like Alice in Wonderland!

This whole "health care overhaul" by Obama is just a failure in the making. I know they want universal health care, but it will be much much harder to give that to people in the United States as opposed to other countries that have it like France. People know that this plan will most likely fail, and what pisses them off is how stubborn and arrogant obama and Dems are about this, insisting that they push it through. People don't like leaders with arrogance, and Obama is showing a large amount of arrogance with this issue. Spending trillions of dollars for a plan that will fail? lol, yeah makes total sense. I hope they got the message with the election of Brown in Massachussetts. Because if they ignore the people's wishes, and just force this plan down the American people's throats, you can bet there are many Dems who will be out of a job at the end of this year. Same can be said for the president in 2 years.

Add to that the cost of the plan. Obama is already raping the piggy banks of our kids and grandkids and he doesn't want to talk about the spending part of the health care bill, but it all comes back to "blame Bush" whenever it's convenient for him and his party. Well Bush started it, Obama inherited it....yada yada yada. People are tired of that crap! Let's talk about the here and now! How do we fix the economy first? I'd like to see Obama take some personal responsibility for the failed first year instead of weaseling out and blaming the Republicans for everything. He was part of the Democratically controlled Congress that allowed the Bush doctrine to pass for 8 years and voted "present" like a coward on several key issues too! He was just a wolf in sheeps clothing that people voted in because he was a rockstar and the media driven hate/blame for George Bush which also pushed Independents and some Republicans to cross over to Obama and vote him in as President.