Kobe Bryant: He Died As He Lived.

I remember those days so well. It seemed like yesterday really, but it was so long ago too. Funny how time gets away from us. I was young back then.

Michael Jordan was all the rage and every team in the NBA was looking for the next Jordan or at least a facsimile of him who would lead them to some semblance of glory that Jordan had for the Bulls.

There were some stories about Eddie Jones when he came to the Lakers. And like all Lakers fans, I was excited. I wanted the next Jordan too. And he was athletic and good. But as time went on it became apparent he was fools Jordan. And it seemed there never would be a player who combined that kind of freakish athleticism and skill.

Then came the year Kobe Bryant decided to turn pro right out of high school. And once again we heard the rumors: he looks like another Jordan. And once again I became excited. But my excitement was tempered by reality. How could there really be another Jordanesque player, and contemporary with Jordan? It seemed impossible.

As an eighteen year old rookie he played like it. He made many mistakes, had plenty of problems, playing against grown men. But there were flashes; small snippets of body control and athleticism that took your breath away….and made me wonder….and yes…it made my blood run fast with hope.

And as time went on and the kid learned the game, soaking it in, devouring it with a work ethic and desire few could equal, the results started to come in like news on an old news ticker tape…rat tat tat tat tat…never stopping now.

I remember those moments so clearly even still:

The game against Miami, on national TV, Kobe suddenly the kid no more, now more a man playing against kids as he ripped and tortured the Heat mercilessly, putting up huge numbers, impossible, twisting jump shots, contorting his body like some six foot six rubber band as he made impossible forays to the hoop, the….taking off like some space craft and meeting the hoop way up there in the air to deposit the ball with ferocious thunder or an artist’s legerdemain, whichever he chose to use at that particular moment in the sky. It was his true coming out party and as he so often did, he used a national stage to announce his greatness. And it was while watching this game that I knew, with total exact certitude, that he was the real thing, that he would become everything the rumors had whispered his rookie year.

He did not automatically start to dominate every game after that. He still was callow with much to learn. But when I saw that game, I knew the impossible had happened. The Lakers had indeed had the next Michael Jordan.

My next standout memory of him was game six of the finals against Indiana. Shaq had fouled out in the fourth quarter of a close game in Indy. A friend of mine who was watching the game with me said, “That’s it for the Lakers. It’s going to be game seven.” I turned to him and said, “No, it will end here, tonight. Kobe is going to take over and get his first ring.”

And that is exactly what happened. Nobody, nothing was going to stop that young man, in total fullness and control of his marvelous athletic gifts from achieving the dream he had harbored since he was a small boy.

I remember the game he threw up 81 points against the Toronto Raptors. As he kept up his assault, furious like an otherworldly banshee the news started to spread through the country over social media. The entire sports world seemed to stop what they were doing and tuned into watch. Every athlete from every sport riveted, just like I was on the spectacle of the art and power of Kobe Bryant. And as I watched, like everyone else, I knew I would never see anything like it again.

I remember the torture test in those second NBA finals against talented, tough Boston, on the heels of the humiliating loss for the title they had inflicted on us before. That series was for Kobe’s and Phil’s legacy. Lose it and they would forever by Celtic whipping boys. Win it and it would be the greatest championship triumph of both men’s celebrated careers. In seven heart stopping brutal games the Lakers finally pulled through, Kobe taking his most treasured title and Finals MVP.

And I remember his last game when crippled by age and injury; he seemed to turn back the clock one last time, for old times’ sake, as he threw up 60 points against Utah for his final game and win in the Staples Center. Like I said, Kobe had a way of using the national stage. And just as he did as that young kid in Miami to show us all what was to come, so he did at the very end, to remind us of what had been.

I have all these memories and more. It seems like yesterday.

Kobe was one of those people who seemed invincible to me: One of those special people made out a different substance that mere mortals are not; one of those rare people who would live to be 95 years old and look 55. A man who would still be alive long after I was gone.

But that was one chance Kobe did not get.

I was young back then, now I have grown old and Kobe Bryant, the invincible man has died.

We all will die. A friend of mine today said to me, “None of us are promised tomorrow.” That is true, as we all learned today yet again.

Some of us will die old, some young. Some will die peacefully, some in pain, some of us, most of us, will die deaths strangely, totally incongruent with how we lived our lives.

But not Kobe. When I heard how he died I realized he went out the same way he lived his life and played the game: Flying, flying, flying, soaring, soaring, soaring through the air as few men ever have or ever will. Going higher and higher as us mortals could only stand, rooted to the ground, watching, amazed.

Kobe took off from the earth to fly one last time today. There will be no more. We only have the memories now.

Goodbye kid and thanks for the ride.

Beautifully written- thanks Randy.

Dave,

Thank you. A post I never thought I would have to write.

https://twitter.com/naima/status/1221593723290759168?s=09

Randy,

Time flies isn’t? Weve watched this Kid, all the way back to being drafted, 3-peat,Colorado,50 point games, 60 pt games, the 81 game,Boston title,Achilles injury up until retirement. This is such devastating news. Like Skip Bayless said,this guy was invincible, too big and too great to die.

Kobe taught us what life is, bigger than basketball, truly an inspiration. I don't belief on such conspiracies and superstitions but his last moments are, of course 3 people that all had significant contributions to the legacy of his. the last massage or text to Shareef Oneal (son of his Shaq) , Congratulating Lebron (passing of torch) & being Happy with Dwight ( whom he had issues with). The helicopter had fog issues that had caused zero visibility and crashed. Seems like God is going to take him....

I loved your posts Randy. He was an epitome of Basketball. Up to this day, he was still my avatar this is my avatar way back 2010, no way ill remove this ever again. All i can say to the rest of LTB, i love you guys. Stay strong, Laker family will rally. Hope we rock the staples and give our very best this season. For Kobe....

Hello all. I wanted to add my pilot perspective. Feel free to read it or take it with a grain of salt, but keep in mind that I have over 9,000 hours of flight time and have been flying Jets out of that area for over 7 years. Please listen to the ATC transmissions prior to reading my text. You will hear them mention a special VFR (Visual Flight Rules) clearance. For fixed wing aircraft (it may be different for helicopters), this will allow you to operate with 1 statue mile of visibility and clear of clouds. You can be 1' away from a cloud, as long as you are not in it. The weather for both Burbank and Van Nuys was showing IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) conditions, which is why they requested it. Keep in mind that this is all speculation on my end, and of course, we need to let the FAA and NTSB do their thing, but I would say that this is another unfortunate example of something know as CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain). A controlled flight into terrain (CFIT, usually pronounced cee-fit) is an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, a body of water or an obstacle. If I am right, this is something that clearly didn't need to happen. Pilots learn of CFIT in some of their initial training. Really sad for all involved. For those interested in learning more, please reference this Advisory Circular: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/22907 The weather that occurred was in the forecast. I flew in the morning to Concord, CA. from Camarillo and the weather was about the same. Requesting and flying a Special VFR clearance is something that can obviously be done safely. I would advise pilots who intend to use this clearance to be very familiar....

Hey Ralpcobarde old friend,

Thanks so much for what you said about my posts and even more so all the fun, interesting conversations we've had. Time does fly. So fast it's scary.

Life is so strange. I never for a moment thought I would outlive Kobe. But we forget that things that happen to regular folks also happen to the famous. He seemed so indestructible to me it is strange to think of him as dead.

I feel for you. Your emotional tie to Kobe is very clear by your post and what you said. Also obvious by the reactions from so many that he had engendered a visceral emotion feeling from so many of his fans and contemporaries.

Angeluus,

That was a very interesting post. I heard today that the fog was so bad that police helicopters were grounded in that area, not permitted to fly.

Kobe's helicopter was given a special dispensation to fly there. That is what I read today

I will tell you what I thought when I heard that. Because Kobe was so confident, so sure of himself, so driven I wondered if he told the pilot to get that dispensation to make that flight despite the fog warning. It would fit with his personality. That was just what came to my mind. If the decision to fly in that area was made in a private conversation between Kobe and the pilot we will never learn who made that decision.

Whether the fog caused the wreck or something else is not apparent yet. I am sure those answers will be coming.

If it was a terrible decision to fly in that fog then this would remind me of the death of John Kennedy Jr. back in 1999 under very similar circumstances. That tragedy was brought on by his confidence that he could fly in weather that his limited experience actually precluded. He paid the ultimate price for his decision and so did his wife. And that was a plane crash that may have changed American history.

SPQR,

Old friend, as I think back to the old days, reading your great posts.....never thought we'd have to read this one so soon. I'm just completely devastated by the news. The day I heard the news, my wife and I went to LA Live, in front of Staples Center, and dropped off some flowers to a vigil they had for Kobe and you can just feel the heartbreak in the air. Its a day I will just simply NEVER forget.

You see guys like Jerry West, Shaq, who have been completely devastated and overwhelmed by the news, it just shows the impact Kobe had. He was LA's hero, and will personally always be my hero.

Thank you Kobe for the amazing memories. Thank you for the times you sacrificed your own well being just to elevate the team and push through to chase greatness. These past few days have made me think about a lot of things like the debates and discussions I had with posters here (shoutout to Mambamonk, MrMojo, Tempy, VujacicSolevnia, cuckoo, lakeshowsd, Axle, Bandmaster, Jangles, sorry for those I missed mentioning). Thought of the final seconds before the buzzer hit on all 5 titles, the clutch shots, the game winners, the lockdown defensive performances, the 81 point game, the olympic gold medal game vs Spain, redemption vs Boston in 2010, the last game of his career.... just so many moments racing down my mind, I can just keep going.

Hang in there gents. Its gonna sting for a long time, but remember the good times and be happy when you recognize the impact he had in this world that goes BEYOND basketball. Hug your loved ones, tell them you love them, and never take life for granted.

Long live Kobe. Long Live Gianna. My heart goes out to the rest of the victims lost and their families.

3peat,

Thanks for the nice words and all the times you and I exchanged ideas and thoughts about the Lakers. It was a blast.

Your litany of members certainly does bring back so many memories. All those issues we discussed and debated and yes even argued about over so many years and different iterations of teams.

We have had such fun and great times here just like the team has. And lately the team has not had such good times culminating of course in the crash that took Kobes life along with the other passengers.

I saw the fans at Staples mourning Kobe and I'm glad you had a chance to express your own grief there in your own way.

That flight communication was chilling; yet there is nothing we can do to reverse this tragedy.

As to words, there are none -- at least from me.

Simply -- RIP Kobe and the eight others on the chopper.

Baadmaster,

I'm sure it was. I haven't heard it and really don't wish to. The last minutes and seconds of any air crash have to be horrific when those inside know what's going to happen.

Sadly like the Kennedy Jr. crash this one may have been the product of reckless decision making.

As Skye said in his post, it was a combination of unfortunate factors that all had to occur for this to happen. A lax FAA in requiring adequate instrumentation and recording devices, per NTSB recommendations a decade ago. Unusual weather conditions, not typical in LA, an ATC who allowed the pilot to fly into dense fog with only visual guidance, an ill equipped helo, pilot disorientation. All preventable. If Kobe had died bungie jumping or riding his off road motorcycle and crashing (he was a bit of an adrenalin junkie/daredevil I understand), it would have been one thing. Dangerous activities. But this...is why we are all having such a hard time grasping how it could have been allowed to happen. When it was so preventable. Imo it's right up there with Amelia Earhart and Titanic, preventable disasters but for a perfect storm of multiple mistakes. Smh...

Well Baad,

Ultimately the decision was up to those in the helicopter and the pilot.

I can tell you that if I had been there with that fog I would have declined the ride. No basketball game is worth that risk. There's always another game, you only have one life.

Those people elected to take a chance. They paid for it.

I'll be honest about something too, if I flew in a that helicopter as much as kobe did I would have had that terrain radar installed. He had the money to do it. He didn't.

Right now, this sad incident looks like the product of a series of bad decisions made by kobe with that radar and all them by not taking that fog seriously.

SP, sounds like the 3rd stage of grief coming out there. Blame. I doubt Kobe knew about what equipment the helo had or didn't have, or what it could have had, or why it did or didn't have it. Would you? He's not a pilot. He would have trusted the equipment, and the pilot. And, when they left on their trip he may not have known about the fog bank hanging over Calabasas. What's peculiar to me, is they weren't flying to Calabasas, so wondering why they ended up there. Thousand Oaks/Newbury Park where his Academy is, is well west of there, and they have no airport, so the helo was supposed to fly past TO (as it's known locally) to Camarillo, which is another 20 miles or so. Then I guess they planned to drive back up the hill from there. Camarillo is in a low coastal flat farming area. Downhill from TO. Lots of strawberries. That's the area the Beatles wrote Strawberry Fields forever about. Newberry Park is a section of TO. A big section, like half the total area of the city. The newer part. Tho surely there must be many helo pads in TO they could have landed at. Lots of mansions and celebs live there, including Brittany Spears, Kevin Sorbo, Tom Sellick and many others. Then Uber (yeah right) to the Academy. But however they got there, the flight plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Knowing the area as well as I do, living nearby. And how/why they ended up on a hillside so far from their destination. Esp when supposedly, according to reports, the pilot knew the local area and terrain well. It doesn't appear that way to me. In fact since he so often traveled by helo, why didn't the Academy....

Shep,

If I own a helicopter and use it like a car, as kobe did to fly around LA all the time, I'm learning about every safety device possible. If you don't that's a mistake. You don't need to be a pilot to do that.

They had to know about that fog because they got special permission to fly.

The ones I feel the most sorry for are the kids. They were going to do what their parents told them to do and when they made that fatal decision to fly the kids fates were sealed.

Unless there is some turn in events for the cause of that crash all those adults who decided to make that flight, kobe and pilot included are culpable.

I'm Shepherd, not Baad lol. Yes once they hit the valley airpsace they found out about some fog. But not being a pilot, I don't know what info they got exactly, or what the pilot thought about it. The fog wasn't soooo bad except in Calabasas. We'll never know if it was discussed onboard, or if pressure was applied to continue. Cops grounded their helo's, so it's odd I'll give you that. But my wondering has to do with why they ended up in pea soup fog in Calabasas, rather than flying on to their destination going due west. Instead they turned south into the hills. And why a 185mph dive nose first into a hillside? Point is there were many things that went wrong to cause this accident, and any one of them could have prevented it. But in fact if the pilot died while flying, for example, and fell onto the stick (or whatever they use) and that caused the fast descent, no amount of instruments would have helped. Only cancelling the trip would have. Or they could have stopped at Van Nuys airport (large municipal airport in the area) and drive from there. It's a 20 min or so drive from there. They hovered right near the airport for a bit, which I thought indicated they thought about stopping there and getting a car. Lots of celebs keep planes there, Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc, so lots of limos standing by.

There's more questions than answers right now. And plenty of possible blame to go around. Or simply unfortunate decision making. Time will tell. But I wouldn't blame the passengers. Maybe they asked the pilot if he was ok flying in that weather and he said sure no problem. We have no idea.

Shep,

Sorry. I changed it. I wouldn't want to be confused with Baad either lol. Jk Baad.

There are many questions. One thing about these investigators, they are very good at what they do.

I suspect we will get answers to almost every question by the time they are done.

There's also a lot of misinformation going around both online and with tv reporting. Hard to know what's what. Guess we'll just have to wait.

My questions remain why they flew south instead of west. Away from their final destination and into a thick fog bank. Had they not made that fatal left turn, it seems reasonable to assume they'd have reached their destination safely. Fog or no fog. Time will tell. 10 days for the initial report.

Shep,

A couple things. It is a fact they missed clearing the hill by only thirty feet even after the pilot took that very precipitous dive at the very end.

Heard today someone who was there said anyone who claims they saw the crash is lying. The fog was so think you couldn't see a damn thing. All you could do was hear it then the crash.

I was caught in fog like that once driving and I pulled over. I couldn't see three feet in front of me. Can't imagine trying to get a helicopter through that kind of thing. It would be completely disorienting.

I was in Calabasas nearby when it happened SP. I heard it but didn't see it. However from what I saw that morning myself, and saw shortly later on tv when I got home, it wasn't very foggy at the crash site itself. The dense fog was I'd say 200 ft higher, hanging as it does. Ground level was a bit hazy, but visibility was overall pretty good. But, at 185mph, 200' is not enough time to react anyways, even if they noticed they cleared the fog suddenly.

Question still, is why be flying that fast, and why at a steep downward trajectory? Were they trying to land? At 185 mph?

I don't understand what that 30' reference was, pertaining to supposedly clearing the hillside. I don't imagine what that means. Coz they slammed into the mid-side of the hill. Where would 30' put them? On the bottom on level land? Not even. Over the top only to hit the next hillside? Nope. If they'd barely clipped the top of the hill, going in a straight line, flying level, it would make sense. But they were pointed down traveling at high speed. So I don't get that. Doesn't look to me like 30' would have made any difference.

Shep,

I'm not a telemetry expert lol. One thing I never do is argue with experts, engineers, scientists etc about things they are expert in and I know nothing about.

If they say the copter was 30 feet from clearing that ridge they have a way of figuring that out and I'll take their word on it.

From what I've heard through today unless something comes up about a severe technical failure it looks like this tragedy will go down as a group of adults, from Kobe to the pilot to all the rest making a very dumb, reckless decision to fly in dangerous conditions that had police and media choppers grounded. What makes that decision even more egregious is they knew they didn't have that terrain radar. The more you think about it the more you just shake your head in disbelief about what they did.

When you do stupid things in life sometimes you get lucky and don't pay. Sometimes you do pay. Sometimes you pay with your life if the situation you put yourself in is dangerous, as in this case or the Kennedy flight.

I feel bad for all of them. But like I said it's the kids that are heartbreaking. If it was the fog then those kids, unlike the adults, had no choice but to take that death ride because of the faulty decisions of their parents.

Making that basketball game was a very poor reason for any adult to make that flight. Or to bring your kid along.

I can imagine what was going on in that little slice of hell, at the end, when those people knew they were gonna die. I also can't help but wonder what the parents were thinking knowing their choice put their kids there.

Can't picture a worse nightmare.

I doubt they knew that SP. Sounds like they thought they were flying straight and instead dove into a hillside. I'd imagine when they struck they were all surprised. Last second screams and then silence. No time to regret. I'll still be most curious to hear if it be determined why they were flying in the wrong direction.

Shep, but one significant detail remains which is the inexplicable and rapid 400 foot drop and subsequent acceleration to 167 mph. A perfect storm of timing and weirdness followed by an inexplicable reaction by a seasoned, professional pilot whom had, a moment prior, demonstrated acute awareness regarding altimeter gauge readings to lift the vehicle out of harms way only to drop, with precision, directly back into harm's way? There's only one reasonable explanation for that and this site has proven to favor syrupy anecdotes that in my opinion deeply disrespect the man by avoiding a deeper investigation into the facts of the incident. During a design critique in grad school, a notable professor of mine said to a student, "You believe in God too much." For most disciplines, that would seem inappropriate though for Architecture, which merges many disciplines into one all resting on the thin edge of courageous subjectivity, this may perhaps be my bias, but I state these things to create a context rather than assuming and hoping that everyone aligns with a sentimental bias which avoids the messiness of subjectivity altogether. I have a term for this. I call it 'Fact-Forward' thinking. Believing in God too much assumes that the answer is somebody else's problem and responsibility and gives away vast quantities of one's own personal power. If facts are not being supplied by a parent, teacher, employer, priest, politician or reporter, it's as if sentimentality's adherants feel lost and unsure where to go yet rigorously defend where not to go as if the picture is crystal clear ironically. 'I ain't goin' there' said the cowardly lion to the tinman! So avoid a deep dive at all costs and break out the butter and syrup instead? To me it's shameful,....

Thank you Randy. Thank you for that so very much.

I know it’s been a long time but again I just want to express my gratitude. Sincerely, it brought tears to my eyes what you wrote.

SPQ...you had me at "one significant detail remains. I said the same thing in the other thread a few times. You said: Shep, but one significant detail remains which is the inexplicable and rapid 400 foot drop and subsequent acceleration to 167 mph. A perfect storm of timing and weirdness followed by an inexplicable reaction by a seasoned, professional pilot whom had, a moment prior, demonstrated acute awareness regarding altimeter gauge readings to lift the vehicle out of harms way only to drop, with precision, directly back into harm's way? There's only one reasonable explanation for that and this site has proven to favor syrupy anecdotes that in my opinion deeply disrespect the man by avoiding a deeper investigation into the facts of the incident. I said... "So they got up to 2300 ft, then suddenly took off at 185 mph, mostly down, into the side of a mountain. Seems clear the pilot believed his senses more than the instruments, and thought he was flying straight on, when he was in fact flying down. Now that it's believed they hit the mountain nose first. At 185 mph. Wow. He wasn't descending or trying to get below the clouds to find a landing spot. Not at 185mph. He thought he was flying straight once he got up to 2400 ft. In that case I'm sure no one saw it coming. Death came instantly. No one survives a 185mph crash." Or: "Maybe the pilot was stricken by a heart attack and suddenly fell over the controls and went into a dive inadvertently" I agree this is the mystery, those actions don't appear to make any sense, assuming he wasn't ill. Nor does their position, which as off course. I'm with you on that one, I hope somehow those answers can be ascertained in due course. We'll never know what....

Skyeward, There is a serious inquiry into the accident. Just not in your world.You know the one you exhibit so many times when you post. And that inquiry will have most of the answers. It will be based on the facts of what happened. They will be real world answers, so not your world answers, not any kind of 'answers' floating about in your head, but they will be the true answers. They won't satisfy you on your world, I can assure you of that already. But it will give you grist for many conspiracy posts that I am sure are already percolating inside your mind. The one thing you said that is for sure is Kobe lost everything. He lost it like the other adults on that flight because he made a rash decision. It still is amazing to me that they made that choice. Or that he never had that ground radar installed. When a friend of mine heard that he did not have that radar on there he thought the same thing. He texted me right away and asked how Kobe could have neglected that. I told him I felt the exact same way. You could have put that in your in your chopper Kobe narrative as follows, "I lost everything, my life, my daughter because I decided to take a stupid flight in fog, in a chopper I never put that important ground radar in, to make a basketball game that meant nothing." For some reason you left that part of your version of the Kobe thought process out when it was the two most important decisions he ever made in his entire life. Shep, As for what makes sense and what does not: People like us, on the ground, safe make all these assumptions or have questions. But we....

SP/Skye, naturally all we can do is speculate. My outstanding questions I postulate because I haven't heard them asked by anyone else, including the investigators and others involved. The ACT should know some of it, but who knows. I merely said them out loud, as to me those are the salient points. The things that would be essential to know in order to ascertain how this disaster occurred. And sadly we may never know. I understand what you're saying about fog. If it was only one time you experienced driving in it, you're lucky. I've driven in thick pea soup Thule fog many times. Also flown in it in small aircraft. In that case mostly in the mountains of Arizona. Fortunately we didn't crash, and btw Skye, no one offered me the choice, or even informed me what the conditions were. ACT and the pilots decide, not the passengers. We have no choice but to trust them, or make our own choice yes, but based on what? If they feel it's safe, right or wrong, they fly, if not, they don't. It was also winter with snow and ice on the ground. You say well I was just in a car, imagine being in a plane or chopper. Well cars don't have instruments like planes do. Cars don't have contact with ACT. The only person responsible for whether or not to drive in fog, is the driver. If you had passengers and they said I don't want to go, what then? If they agreed to go and you suddenly got caught in thick fog and crashed and they were injured, would it be their fault for not staying home? And also btw, it wasn't Kobe's helicopter. Not up to him to outfit it with instruments he probable knew nothing about or ever heard....

Shep,

The reason why the radar was not mandatory is the same sad one so many life saving devices are not used in so many different facets of life: Money. And that's always a shame and invariably costs lives.

You brought up a very good point about whether Kobe and the others knew about the fog. If they didn't then that also should be mandatory. If there are hazardous conditions all passengers should be informed so they can make a choice to go or not.

Who on that helicopter knew about the fog hazard? Just the pilot or all of them?

That is a very important question but I wonder if we will get that answer. If it was discussed among the passengers none are alive to tell us.

As to ownership of the chopper that is incidental. If I'm using a helicopter as a constant mode of transportation you better believe I'm going to learn all the safety features and make sure the one I use has them. Especially one that critical.

This came in today. No engine failure. That was pretty much expected I think.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/02/07/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-no-engine-failure-ntsb-preliminary-report/4650919002/

I didn't expect any sort of engine failure. If there had been it wouldn't have been going 185 mph. And the failure would have had to be sudden and catastrophic, like an explosion. There was no such communication. It always comes back to this for me. If, as we see in that video, people on the ground could see the helicopter, then the helicopter could see the ground. How did it miss the 101? A 10 lane mega busy Fwy? I drove that FWY that day, and it wasn't foggy on the ground. It wasn't socked in at all. So should have been visible. They were supposed to follow the 101 Fwy to their destination, which makes perfect sense. That Fwy goes west to where they were going. Instead they went 2 miles past it southbound into a hillside at high speed. The speed in that video doesn't look to be very fast. Nothing like the supposed crash speed. So why did the guy accelerate to 185 mph suddenly and go almost straight down into the ground? Nothing I can imagine can explain either of those 2 things. And that to me is the important stuff to answer. Until then everything else made sense. Then suddenly it didn't. Yes it was foggy way up in the air. At least a few hundred feet off the ground. I can't say how much exactly. The ground had a bit of light haze, no heavy fog. I was there, I saw it. We probably heard the helo as well, but were sitting at a restaurant eating breakfast right next to the FWY, and so the traffic noise would have mostly drowned it out. The pilot was supposedly familiar with the terrain. When the rescue helicopter got there shortly after, it was in the air, and didn't....

Shep,

Like I said, it is very easy for you, or me, or others not in the chopper, in that fog to say, this doesn't make sense, why did he do that? I was at home. You were in a nice cozy restaurant. You and I and no one else was under the pressure that pilot was in that situation. I am just not going sit in my safe nice home and even pretend like I was in that chopper or near it or have any clue whatsoever what they were experiencing up there. Because I don't. No one does. Only those who were on that helicopter know what they saw and felt and experienced before the crash.

Sadly he is no longer around to tell us why he did what he did. Too bad no black box either. That is another mandatory thing that should be in all aircraft.

Going back to what did the passengers know? I suspect and this is just my suspicion, that they knew of the fog issues. I base this on two things, they flew a certain route because of the fog and flew at a certain height for the same reason. Also the flight had to get special permission to go. For me, too many out of the ordinary things for the passengers not to have been told about.

But once again, just like with the pilots actions, there is a big chance we will never get answers to that.

Shep, perhaps there was no indications of danger, therefore no inclination to delay or cancel. SPQR, your comments are the worst sort of hypocrisy. Going back to the original argument I had with you a few years ago, I have 4 real world metrics that allows me to be certain of my statements, as well 3 decades of deep level access and research to back up the controversial statements. Me nah do conspiracy, knucklehhead! That's the rallying cry of a yellow-belly teat suckers who cringe in the presence of their own shadow. Find a better way! And look up Ad Hominem for gosh sakes. It's a Logical Fallacy where in the absence of any logical substance, one seeks to defame the person. There's nothing wrong with valuing the past or being sentimental. The point you miss is the opportunism you are claiming by deciding it's time for sentiment long before anything conclusive has been resolved and secondly, requiring that everybody around you stay within the boundaries of your comfort zone, the very thing, as usual, that you dish as your counter argument. Perhaps it was pilot error though evidence suggests it was not. Did Kobe die as he lived if it was not? That's not for you to say at this time and it's opportunistic, selfish, childish and disrespectful to draw conclusions about another person's life without empathy and due diligence. But you gotted repped and that's apparently what really matters here. Integrity? Dang man, isn't that obvious? Sadly, we already know what's going to happen. "Pilot Error," despite the anomalies. 'No Engine Problems' points to pilot error despite the facts and the vehicle's specs! It's the same as formal history. Shocking volumes of evidence to....

The cockpit voice recorded knows. Perhaps passenger cell phones recovered could provide various degrees of telemetry. The tendency to say things like "Nobody knows" is the problem. You are seeking to conform the situation to your preferred conclusion SPQR, and perhaps you do not even realize you are doing this. The effect through remains the same. Please, out of respect for Kobe and the others who died that day, stop talking shite or I will find a way to digi b**ch slap you.

Sp, all we're all doing is speculating but asking valid questions. Of course once they hit the airspace in the Valley they flew into it was then evident there was fog. If it wasn't beforehand. Tho light fog at that area they ended up in. The reason they sat for 15 minutes was due to ATC at the local large airport saying they had to wait until traffic cleared. And then from what I heard, guiding them to fly towards the 101 FWY.

I'm certainly not assuming anything. I've no idea, no one does, what transpired. But I do think those 2 main questions of mystery are most important to address. So the passengers at some point knew there was fog. Then what? They should say hey dude turn around? You know that's not likely to happen. Esp if a trusted pilot says no worries. But who knows. I'm sure this incident will cause a lot of rule changes to take place, for the better. Unfortunately, as Angeluus has pointed out, it often take a catastrophe for things to change. And it seems they certainly will. I'd still be holding the ATC and SoCal pple accountable for not being more on top of this situation in dangerous flight conditions. They could have and clearly should have grounded the chopper but didn't. They gave them permission to fly into it. Let's start with that. Take the choice out of the pilot's hands.

Any device that can receive a signal or monitor position or airspeed are linked to remote devices that can receive this data. I'm sure there are exceptions, but somewhere, there's a heck of a lot of data about this flight that was received somewhere outside of the crash site. They were hovering in the area for about 15 minutes apparently before the chaos occurred! Lost for 15 minutes? I don't think so! As such, it's incredibly irresponsible for the media as well to speculate about 'Pilot Error' for all of the reasons I mentioned above. Two paths will be taken towards these answers and both are equally valid. I trust both expert opinions and reasonable intution will be given equal weight.

So the helo specs show a cockpit voice recorder? But we were told there was none. Well I guess in time everything will come to light. We'll just have to all learn to be patient meanwhile. Not call the election before all the votes are counted. Speaking of which, Iowa, wtf?

Skye you need to check the map. I live in the area. They hovered 15 mins in an area called Glendale, which is adjacent to a large airport called Burbank Airport. That's well north-east of where they crashed. They had to stop there due to air traffic from the airport, and were asked to wait until it opened up so they could fly through. I've no idea if that's normal procedure. I guess it is. Since the planes are coming in for landing from that west side (they take off from the other side) and therefore are at low altitude like the helo. Why they flew in a large kind of circle like that to get across the "Valley" to the west side of it to their destination I'm not sure. Vs just following the 101 FWY from an earlier point. But I can't pretend to know anything about air traffic and how it's managed. Must have been a reason.

To get to their destination, for instance, it would have been much shorter (as the bird flys) to go from Newport Beach or Long Beach, wherever it was, out over the ocean and then proceed NW to Malibu, then over those mountains to TO. Somehow they went the long way around. Again must be a reason for that. But if you look on a map of the area and draw a straight line, from point A to point B, that's by far the shortest route.

LOL, speaking of which, Biden, Pelosi, Romney and Kerry all have children working for corrupt Ukrainian Gas Companies and becoming millionaires. Perhaps that might have something to do with reason they do not want investigations and why Romney betrayed the GOP and voted to impeach on Item 1? And why Ukraine? Can you say the remnants of the Khazarian Empire boys and girls? Those ancient agendas have some serious duration...

HA! Yeah they do. And it's hidden money for the most part. And, have you ever been there? Seriously hot babes aplenty lol. Just sayin'. In a mostly ignored part of the world. Even tho it's actually a very large country. Those Russian/Ukraine to Europe gas contracts have always been pretty 'salty'.

Pple like that are opportunists. I didn't know all those kids were working there as well. That certainly tells us a lot. Hard to have confidence in any of the politicians nowadays. And Pelosi least of all. What a witch. Watches while her own city goes to hell and does nothing. Shameful woman.

I don't even like Trump, but the corruption runs deep on both sides. They just get more sophisticated and more brazen as time passes. Knowing they'd ultimately not win, was there any point whatsoever, other than scoring brownie points, and getting richer in the process, of pursuing an unwinnable impeachment case? I'm baffled. But I'm counting on you to have figured it out!

I like this quote:

"The Democrats are treating the Ukraine like 'ZipRecruiter.com' for their lazy, do-nothing privileged kids."

I didn't know that the hovering occurred elswhere, and you are forgetting I lived in LA for 15 years.

Yeah I thought so. But couldn't remember where, or if you recalled the layout. Yup the 15 minute hovering was over Glendale. Then they flew in a kind of arc, ending up somehow in Calabasas. Instead of following the 101 as they were instructed to do, towards Thousand Oaks (TO).

I'm wondering what the top speed of a helo like that is. Can they typically fly over 200mph?

Ok I just looked and top speed is 178 mph (155knots). So they were full throttle when they went down. C'mon, something wrong there. They were going slow and puttering around, then suddenly slammed the gas pedal, so to speak? Most things that fly don't go full speed hardly ever. Pilot suicide? Was he depressed? I hope they look into all that. Coz it's certainly not normal imo. But Angeluus could answer that better than any of us. Why in fog and hilly terrain a pilot, even if disoriented, would suddenly open it up to full speed? For that matter under any circumstances?

I think we'll have this figured out long before the NTSB does lol.

Biden has been informally accused of laundering and given his run for the Presidency, nothing stopping Biden Jr from dumping his money back into his father's campaign. And why were four Senators, whom are President Trump's opponents, permitted to vote for his impeachment? I'm sure there's a rule somewhere that allows for this, but think about the irony or double standard of Trump's impeachment in part being based upon the alleged abuse of authority being used to gather information about an opponent leading to his opponents voting if such an act is impeachable! That's a super fine line. But now the dust has settled, the rats are scattering. I'm concerned for the President and the USA when the Speaker is permitted to say that "Trump will not be reelected by whatever means," and not be punished in some manner for this comment.

Yes it's all been really extraordinary, and highly dubious. And now MB is saying he's running for POTUS to beat Trump. Really, that's his whole platform? Is that a good reason to want to be POTUS? Not to help right the country, get good legislation passed, improve foreign relations etc? Aren't those reasons why you run? Not solely to try and beat the incumbent? Stand up and run on your own merits, not as an ambush.

Maximum speed: 155 kn (178 mph, 287 km/h) at maximum takeoff weight at sea level in standard atmospheric conditions; Cruise speed: 155 kn...

"Black boxes: The helicopter was not equipped with either a flight data recorder or a cockpit voice recorder, the “black boxes” that investigators seek after a crash, according to Jennifer Homendy, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board. She said at a news conference on Monday that the helicopter was not required to have them." I don't think Kobe's professional inusurance nor the Lakers team insurance would allow him to fly on a helipcopter not equipped with basic safety technology. Highly questionable and dubious... All three items not included?

NYT

Yeah as I said just above:

Ok I just looked and top speed is 178 mph (155knots). So they were full throttle when they went down. C'mon, something wrong there. They were going slow and puttering around, then suddenly slammed the gas pedal, so to speak? Most things that fly don't go full speed hardly ever. Pilot suicide? Was he depressed? I hope they look into all that. Coz it's certainly not normal imo. But Angeluus could answer that better than any of us. Why in fog and hilly terrain a pilot, even if (especially if) disoriented, would suddenly open it up to full speed? For that matter under any circumstances?

I think we'll have this figured out long before the NTSB does lol.

Shep,

Don't know if you watched the news tonight but they had some solid info that seems to confirm some things.

The chopper was attempting to fly below the fog/clouds. Then the pilot radioed that he was going to ascend to 4000 feet to get above them. He then made the move and got to 2300 feet before it banked left and plummeted down.

A security camera took a picture of the chopper just at it was ascending into the clouds. It is the last known picture of the helicopter. They showed the picture and there is was, the chopper disappearing into the clouds as it was rising.

A man who lived near the crash said he heard the chopper and looked up. He said the fog/clouds were so thick he couldn't see a thing and wondered, "What is a helicopter doing trying to fly in these clouds?" He was shocked.

They interviewed two pilots on two different shows and both said the same thing. Once you get in that kind of fog it is very easy to become totally disoriented and not know where you are or where you are heading. They said at that point making a mistake is not difficult to do.

I think things are starting to come clear at least from what is now known. The pilot became uncomfortable flying so low to try stay under the clouds and made the decision to go through them and rise above them. When he made that decision he became lost and confused in the fog which then led to that quick crash.

But still, going nearly straight down at 185 mph (full speed)? That's what puzzles me. You don't fly, or drive, fast in thick fog. The first thing you do is slow down. And to say it again, why was he there in the first place? He was off course. They weren't supposed to fly into the Calabasas Hills. They were supposed to follow the 101.

This is interesting...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

Ok so on the news they showed an animation of what the helo did before it crashed. The pilot radioed he was climbing to 4000 ft to get above the cloud bank/fog. He was moving vertically, not forward. Basically standing still but elevating. He got to 2400 ft then stopped for some reason, rolled the helo slightly left, then dove nose first at full speed into the ground.

It doesn't explain why he was miles off course. But to me, that inexplicable action indicates one of 2 things. I hate to say it. Either suicide or medical emergency. It seems to me he either lost control of the chopper, or he did it intentionally. There's just no other plausible explanation.

And why did this version of the story vary so much from the radar logs? The live convo that I listened to on this site indicated no stress or raised voices and no instructions and the conversation carries all the way to the end after they lost communication which presumably was the crash. The official story has now changed. Imagine that! Previously he descended about 400 (directly after rising 1400 feet) feet which explains why he would have accelerated at top speed to regain altitude rapidly, though clipping the top 30-40 feet of the mountain? This came form the radar logs and not radio dialogue. Listen to Angeluus video at the top of this page if you havn't already.

Who knows. It's all getting crazy now.

Meanwhile, regarding the top Dems kids working for Ukraine Gas...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sons-top-democrats-ukraine-clinton/

Snopes says not so fast?

Bit of an update. Esp about helicopter safety and requirements.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-underscores-industrys-long-running-safety-struggles/2020/02/08/42a1aba6-4444-11ea-b503-2b077c436617_story.html

They're still not asking the question why was he offcourse. Ending up in Calabasas instead of following the FWY west to Thousand Oaks/Newbury Park where his Academy is. But they are asking the other question. Why did the helo suddenly dive down at max speed into the ground, just as he was halfway up his attempt to ascend above the clouds? I still think something happened to the pilot. That's my theory now. And I'm sticking to it.

The chopper co had issues before.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/us/kobe-bryant-island-express-helicopters.html

And the fog was a known issue before they took off. Other flights from the same airport were grounded (helo's). Pilot decided to go anyways. I guess you're right SP, the passengers could have declined. They were too trusting of the flyer I guess. Here's a complete play by play of everything from Saturday up to the Sunday crash. Interesting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/08/us/kobe-bryant-crash-reconstruction.html