Ingram - Too Much Pressure?

Los Angeles is a hedonistic, impatient and selfish city. It is not a place where patience applies despite Lakers management claiming they intend to be patient with Brandon and Randle and Ball and Zubac. The only successful story of patience in LA that I can recall is Andrew Bynum and that was a fluke because Kobe, Fisher and Phil wrote him off as an afterthought. It takes a certain type of personality to deal with the 'all eyes on you' reality in LA. It proved to be too much for Dwight Howard and it seems to be overwhelming....

Poor BI, the pressure must be a huge weight on his shoulders.

Well, apparently telling him to be more aggressive probably isn't the best advise. Brandon should play smart and within the team concept, crash the boards, play tough D, even if the shots are not falling. His length is amazing, so it'd be wise to keep him around for at least another season or two. Also Magic did deem BI "untouchable", so it is doubtful he will be traded anytime soon.

Even untouchable has a price!!! But don't think he gets traded anytime soon.

Always thought if he'd be a star, he'd be more the Paul George type of star. I don't think he can put a franchise on his shoulders but I do believe he's a potential star. Ingram's frame isn't built for how he's trying to play so he definitely has to be smarter about that. Defenders that are below average in terms of strength looks like an unmoveable force when Ingram tries to take it to them. With that being said, he won't fully develop for another few years, which may take too long for some (looking at Magic and impatient Laker fans). Magic coming out and saying he's untouchable, trading DLo, and a myriad of other situations and events unfolding has put some unnecessary pressure on Ingram to be "the guy" right now and to show results when it's only going to be his second year when hes more of a 3-4 year project.

I really thought BI would be much better than what he has shown this preseason and I am having second thoughts about his progress over the summer. Would having Ingram come off the bench with the 2nd unit and starting Kuzma at SF be a good move for the team? I love the move of having Randle coming in behind Nance Jr. but next I hope to see Clarkson starting at SG instead of KCP bcuz KCP hasn't been very productive this preseason either.

Ball / Ennis

Clarkson / KCP / Hart

Kuzma / Ingram / Brewer

Nance Jr / Randle / Deng

Lopez / Zubac / Bogut / Bryant

I prefer KCP at the starting 2, simply because his game is more fit next to Ball, and also JC is better off the bench. Once upon a time a select few Laker fans thought JC was our savior All-Star guard, but truthfully he's nothing more than a scoring punch, who often tries too hard and forces the issue (same issue with Randle, tries to do more than he's capable of). He was way better in his rookie season when he let the game come to him.

I think bringing Ingram off the bench would be fine, I think Luke did start him too early in his career, he needed to develop more. BI isn't anywhere near a finished product.

If Lakers' management can't have patience, then why would spoiled Lakers' fans have patience? It's extremely hard for me to be a Lakers' fan now because everyone has bought into this whole thing of LA requires stars and this is how management approaches everything, with stars in mind.

I use Giannis from Milwaukee as an example when speaking of Ingram. Why? Both were 190 pounds and frail. Ingram still needs to put on a good 20 pounds before he can start absorbing contact while driving to the cup.

Magic just needs to STFU sometimes. Telling a kid he will be disappointed if he doesn't average 20, saying he's untouchable, etc. was just dumb. He's put way too much pressure on these kids to carry the franchise, let them grow as players and men first.

Absolutely though this was not incentive as much as it was a veiled threat. Everyone is touchable in Magic's world. It's about Magic and not the team. He states to the players what he wants them to be given his own vision. He's about money and NOT people! Does anyone recall Mitch doing this or most any operations admins? Magic is the President of Operations and not the coach and Luke has stated that he certainly wants his views on running things, but Magic is clearly the one determining the progress. I wonder if Luke has the cahunas to tell him to stand down? I wonder if he operates in the same manner with the Dodgers lest we forget that he plays a major role there too. His mouth is what I have never liked about him, because I consider most of his opinions to be inaccurate and self interested. Hs mouth thus far is creating all sorts of problems but he's Magic and nobody is allowed to say such things. You don't deal future stars to save money for the possibility of acquiring an establish star later. D-Russ could easily have been included in a trade FOR the superstar, but the dumping of a contract in a city which can easily afford to go over the cap, got rid of a player who does not fit Magic's preferred style. D-Russ at the 2 with Ball is far better than what we have now especially because they will have to sacrifice Lopez next season if the plan works and there's no way they pay KCP $18M so he's gone too. You keep your most productive resources but Magic wants Magic's showtime basketball as he creates a product with little regard for the....

Skyeword, Magic actually did have HIV all those years ago. He still does. HIV is the virus that can then become full blown AIDS. Magic never developed AIDS. He was very fortunate to have the fame and resources to receive cutting edge drugs at the time that kept his condition in check. Had he been a regular person its much more likely he would not have survived back then. It's good to be rich and famous and connected. Sometimes it can even save your life. Back then the disease was not well understood and there was a hysteria about it. People thought you could get it from kissing, sweat, even just skin to skin contact. Magic's premature career end was a result of his unrelenting promiscuity on a massive level and the lack of knowledge about the disease back then once it became known he had it. I'm not sure if his becoming a pariah and missing out on the last few years of the thing he loved most currently influences his personality, decisions and how he treats people or not. It's an interesting question. It certainly must have had a massive psychological impact. To lose your career and be handed what was thought a sure death sentence back then. I'm not sure what Magic will prove to be as operations manager. His long history of tweets never impressed me. Always struck me as a kid with a serious case of fandom rather than a cool, calculating thinker. I'm pretty confident Magic is a proponent of the fast turnaround. I think he wants to be the great legend who came back, turned a long fabled dead team around and over threw the invincible Warriors. I think that narrative fits in where Magic sees himself and his destiny. I think his ego also demands his....

SPQR, I know the official story but that's all it is. From several very reliable sources, I am certain of what I am saying. As a rule, I don't make statements that are speculative although occasionally I will make statements that are hard to prove due to esoteric sources. The late Dick Gregory told this story in great detail and included a variation of the story with regards to Bill Cosby. When I read and study, I do so with several layers of attention noting that the world is run by people who operate under the radar. These are the folks making the rules and controlling access by 'celebrity'. The gig works like this. Anybody who has achieved a substantial level of fame or public recognition will be brought into the fold. Remember Kobe's Pilgrim outfit on the front of the LA Times? It wasn't a fashion statement! Folks in this position are given two choices which are comply or succumb, the details of which I will not get into. Compromising information is gathered or invented and when the non-compliance is evident, or when a person breeches an acceptable level of influences or in Cosby's case, states his intention to do so, their reputation and career will be leveled. In other words, degenerate behavior is well known and very useful and for the goody two shoes out there, it will be fabricated or manufactured. Sticking with the Kobe theme, the girl who waged allegations against him was not random either. A more curent example. Many of you might be aware of the incredibly dangerous modern vaccine. If not, trust me, do not vaccinate your children and opt out despite what school districts are telling you. Robert DeNiro....

See Above

Skyeword,

No offense, honestly, but I'm not going to get into that discussion. Just like I won't get into it with those who think the earth is flat, and there are those that do, or that we didn't go to the moon or that Bush blew up the Trade Centers (I hated Bush incidentally but that didn't interfere with my understanding of facts or cloud my ability to think ) or dinosaurs didn't really exist.

Conspiracy theories are are so easy to invent and for some quick to adopt and believe, but if you really take a good hard look and apply logic and thought, and some people literally are very incapable of doing these two things, they come apart like the wet paper they are made of.

Everyone certainly has the right to believe what they choose. But sometimes there is also a difference between believing what one chooses and reality. What is fact. And I have found over the years that a shocking number of people refuse to let facts or reality interfer in what they want to believe.

I've always preferred reality.

If you think Magic didn't have HIV, that's fine. I just didn't want to leave that falsehood hanging out there without someone calling it what it is.

And since I long ago gave up discussing conspiracies with flat earthers, it's a useless endeavor, that's really as far as I want to go with that particular topic.

I have no issue with not discussing this material on Lakers New Surge, but you made a false statement and I corrected it with some related evidence and some general references to pursue verification if you are so inclined. When I say I know for certain, that means that without a doubt my statements are facts. I am friends with the people that own the technology and understand in depth how the technology works and one of these people treated Lakers players. Several of my friends, including the owner of the tech utilized as part of Laker health maintenance, unofficially of course, have been murdered for the work they were doing. The cover stories you are apparently defending and the people that create them are responsible for the dark underbelly that folks such as yourself consider unreal. If this flies in the face of your world view, that does not change the facts. DO NOT though come into a public forum with beliefs and speculations and suggest that anything that contradicts your limited views and the people that know of these things are somehow damaged. And do not lump me in with Internet idiots and misinformation agents without learning of my pedigree. Who the F do you think you are quite frankly or is this how you normally behave when overwhelmed? The fact that you are willing to pass judgement when it is you that are unclear speaks mightily of your disposition and yet another reason that I certainly will not continue this conversation. I do not have any beliefs. Things either are or they are not. Your need to believe something in order to make it true is deeply concerning and very commonplace sadly and points to the fabrication of artifice to sustain....

Getting back to basketball:

How does this grab you?

Pre-season -- D'Angelo Russell scores 24 points in 24 minutes

Oct 11 - 10:55 PM

D'Angelo Russell picks his spots, scores 16

Oct 8 - 10:44 PM

D'Angelo Russell scores nine points

Oct 5 - 10:37 PM

D'Angelo Russell scores 19 in 20 minutes

Oct 3 - 9:59 PM

Another brilliant front-office move? And we kept Randle, a bench jockey level talent.

You just said it , bench level talent, so nobody was trading for him and taking on big contract in Mozgov.

Wish they could have kept Dlo too, but he's not some star that's going to make Nets a playoff team or Lakers. Imo

There were a lot of people hard on D-Russ on and off the court including false accusations regarding his maturity.

Don't think maturity accusations were false, Dlo even said he had some growing up to do.

Teams don't want Randle......But I hear ya.

HEY! What do you know...it's Skyeword making insanely self righteous claims and stating that everything he writes is 100% FACT!!

I've always been fascinated with the idea that someone can have all the answers but spends his time on a Lakers message board LOL

Just remember guys, when you see a post from him, he has friends that know the truth and "that means that without a doubt my statements are facts"

Lol, LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!

Maturity too often means false humility and the couching of emotion. Professionalism is simply devotion. Google employees play video games during the day, take naps in public places set up to do just that and they often wear flip flops to work. It's about getting the work done. Nick Young the eternal jokester comes to mind. Nobody calls him unprofessional. Why the Double Standard for D'Lo?

This all stems from the video incident and my opinion remains that he's covering for the person that actually leaked the video. Once the media calls someone something, there's a tendency for that label to stick such as 'fake news'. I find this tendency frustrating and curious as if people cannot think for themselves.

Well your entitled to your opinion, but he's not a laker anymore, so at this point I could care less. But wish him well, especially since I have him in my draft kings tonight. Lol

If you call me out numbnuts, back it up with knowledge of me and the situation, two things you are unable to do so shut your gob right quick. I practice a zero tolerance and one of us will not be here much longer if you think that you can bring your brand of bull to this forum and take people on. There's nothing worse than a clueless loudmouth seeking attention. Were you to pull this in person, you be taking a seat right about now. Assuming you are referring to the Randle post, considering I have no idea who you are, the 'friends' I referred to that you choose to disrespect as well were murdered assh*ole! The same ones who have the ability to cure every damn disease on Earth using destructive frequencies. Have a clue yet? If the evidence you need as proof involves meeting the people, who were involved with this situation, I will send you their obituaries and outline the conditions, the technology, the reason that the technology remains illegal, it's efficacies, it's history, the people that designed and fabricated it, the people that stole it and the government agencies (that are actually corporations) that harm people to keep these secrets as well the timing and details that led to their murders including my friend being offed by an EM weapon along with his lawyer while they laid in their beds at night. I presume you know nothing about such things so I present this volley as Exhibit A. Secondly, your logic is shallow. I said nothing about knowing everything, but I for dang sure know the details related to that commentary via research, degrees and personal experience and is therefore a unquestionable fact. Assuming I did know everything,....

Well then KK, define professionalism. What's your opinion?

I'm gonna tell on you first!

DAAAAAAAVE!!! Skyeword called me NUMBNUUUUTS!!!!!

Sad...

lol

Skyword I agree with you about professionalism , but at the same time these stories about him go back to before the video. I usually find that the truth usually lies somewhere between. And it didn't help that some of his teammates still had a problem with going into last season. MWP said on Cowherd that some of the players didn't look at him as an leader and still didn't trust him, and that he was hoping going into last season that they would have put that behind them.

So whatever was going on behind closed doors ,we'll never know the whole truth. But as I said above ,he's not a laker anymore and I don't really care , Unless I have him in my fantasy draft !!!

I agree that he's not a leader (or a Laker), or a true PG either, though I think he handled the madness being dished at him extremely well. Scott was on him everyday for example. Imagine going to work knowing you are gonna get harassed, the media is watching your reaction and you still have to go on the court and perform. That's what I call professionalism.

His line tonight was 30/3/5... Given the Lakers have limited Natural scorers outside of Kuzma, he's gonna be seriously missed. I wonder if Brooklyn would have taken Randle and Clarkson instead of D'Lo? I bet they would have...

Doubt it, wouldn't be at all surprised if Lakers mentioned Randle or Clarkson before Dlo and got turned down. Especially if Nets had to take Mozgov. In the end think trade turned out good for both sides, they got Dlo, Lakers got rid of Moz and got Kuz.

My thinking is that we could have had Kuz and D'Lo... It's water under the bridge.

Would have been nice, but where would we have gotten 2nd 1st rd pick from. Don't think teams would given up 1st for Randle and Clarkson. Randle because his contract is up, and he would have had to agree to resign with new team, doubt if he would have done that to go to Nets.

LakersLyfe- I know you're new and probably don't know the site rules, but let's keep things respectful, that's pretty much the #1 rule here. Everyone enjoys reading about lively discussions here but let's do it without snipes and personal insults. Thanks in advance.

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the message. And I'm not new, been reading the forum for over a decade - just don't post a lot.

When you says snipes and personal insults, do you mean when Skyeword called me "numbnuts" and an "a***hole" ?

I'm assuming that's what you're referring to...

It seems that you started it, but yeah definitely name calling is not acceptable here as well. So going forward you guys will need to have discussions without resorting to trolling & name calling. If you have issues with each other, feel free to PM yourselves and resolve. Appreciate it!

Disappointing to hear you condone his attitude and demeaning tone, but I understand, visibility increases credibility.

I'll have to quit saying what everyone is thinking...

But for the people that don't have as loud or as righteous of a voice, don't be afraid to state your truth just as absolutely as others do.

Sanctimony is just that...nothing more.

I appreciate the forum.

Go Lakers!

I'm definitely not condoning what he said But yeah say whatever is on your mind it's never a problem as long as it doesn't violate the site rules.

Given that, I'm gonna bow out...

When disrespectful assaults are tolerated because the rules require the use of derogatory words for a violation to have occurred, this is just another example of why I got banned 5 years ago, why Shepherd took a stance a few months ago and why I'm leaving now...

I've been here ten years too and have no interest to have to defend myself against people who get off judging and insulting, especially content they do not understand nor seek to understand and let SPQR that applies to him too.

You win LakersLyfe. I suspect this is what you want and Dave, if you are going to be a moderator, that does not always mean moderate. This issue here is not name calling but bold faced disrespect and clearly you are OK with it.

Peace out...[tosses Mic into offstage trash bin]...

We received Houston's first round pick because of the Lou Williams' trade. It was the 28th pick which was right after the 27th. Unless Brooklyn had their eyes on Kuzma like SA did, we probably would have had Kuzma without the Mozgov salary dump.

The pressure is crushing him more and more as time goes on. BI completely sh*t the bed last night...

That's right, forgot we had 3 1st. Oh Well.

It's a downer because I personally feel that Dlo and Ball would have worked well together but it wasn't even given a chance because Magic was so enamored with cap space.

I don't believe I'm as high on Ball as most people here. A player like that needs pieces around him to look better. I think he will get assists but I think he will struggle for a few years trying to score. I'm definitely not writing him off but having guys who can score is needed on any team. I think Ball in the open court and DLo utilizing screen and roll would have worked well. I believe in giving a player three years to show what they got. Dlo was given up on in year one for the most part, Ingram was anointed the golden child during Russell's second season. Even the whole thing with Randle is baffling to me, just because he hasn't developed into some 20 and 10 guy by now doesn't mean he's Anthony Bennett.

I'm not a believer in having talent and trading it off in hopes of signing big names. There is a HUGE chance that the Lakers won't get to sign a big name like they would hope to do and be stuck with the team they have now. They'll be forced to re-sign Lopez even though they probably don't have huge interest in doing so.

You can thank Magic for that. I don't want fans to turn on Ingram like they did Russell just because he didn't have some monstrous second season. Magic's talk of Ingram averaging 20ppg was kind of ridiculous when he's about 200 pounds and just changed his jumpshot. In the first two years I on;y look for flashes and in year 3 and 4 you hope for more consistency.

Oh don't be a silly goose about it Skye.

No one, including me, wants you gone.

And Dave did exactly what he was supposed to in letting us know that being rude and name calling is not tolerated on the forum.

You're great with words, so much so that you've been able to operate as the be-all end-all here, and that's all that was checked.

Just because someone else came to the playground doesn't mean you should throw you toys down and leave in a fuss.

But rather learn from it, maybe adjust your tone and allow room for the notion that you may not have ALL the answers, consider you may NOT be more intelligent than all the other members of the forum and approach conversations here with a touch more humility.

"To know what you know and to know what you do not know, that is real wisdom"

Again, I don't think this incident warrants you leaving this forum but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Hopefully this is just a challenge you can rise to wherein you'll improve instead of run, and continue to provide valuable contributions here in an even better fashion that is more well received.

Just my two cents.

Peace and love and of course....GO LAKERS!

PS: I'm LOVING what I'm seeing out of Lonzo in these first few games. From his decision making to his demeanor, this kid is going to be a triple double MACHINE!!!!

Gemfow, agree about it would have been nice to see Dlo next to Ball, but I think Ball makes player's next to him look better. Also he's not really a scorer, and don't know if he'll ever be one. I see him as a 15 to 17 ppg, 9 or 10 apg , 8 to 10 rpg guy. But as talent gets better around him , he'll make that talent even better.

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/status/925018230116188160

Honestly, the original comp was Durant but I was always more realistic in that I thought he was a better version of Tayshaun Prince. Not that there's anthing wrong with that. Prince was a solid player who lasted a long time in the league and became a vital championship component. It's just that it's not good enough for Lakerdom. We need him to become a star. Anything less would be disappointing. In that game against the Raptors, it was obvious that Toronto had two closers and we were still searching for one. We had an emerging one but he was shipped to the Nets. Time, unfortunately, will have to tell.

Think it all depends on what they do in FA. If BI turns out to be a better Prince, than I think that's ok if they can get star FA's. As far as one shipped to Nets, I didn't see star as far as player that's going to lead a team deep into playoffs, especially in the West. I've been waiting to see how he'd play against West teams, and he didn't look that good in his 1st test last night.

On another topic:

GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!