On Ingram, the "face of the Franchise" and More.

I have some thoughts about Ingram, Ball, co-ents by Magic and some other things that have happened since draft night through our first summer league game.

The good: Ingram is that rarest of players who can do it all. He can shoot, handle, drive, finish, pass. He also has the athleticism and size to maximize all of it. He also has the mind. You can see he knows the game and exactly what he's doing.

Sorry Magic, but it's Ingram's number that will be in the rafters when it's all over. That will happen. We will see about Ball.

I really liked Bryant. He ran the floor and was very involved on both sides of the floor.

It was weird hearing the announcers talk about a Bryant on the lakers and it not being Kobe. Any of you feel that way?

Kuzma caught my eye too. You can see the size and athleticism. That could end up being a really good pick.

The bad: Yep the face of the franchise according to Magic (more on that later). This was the second time I've seen him play, the first being his college humiliation at the hands of Fox, and both games he stunk.

Two games is no sample but still you wish he had shown something.

The announcers last night were fixated on his poor shooting but that's not what troubled me. My concern is that in the two games I've seen him, this putative great passer doesn't look like one at all. Right now he looks just like Deangelo Russell did at the same time and I began to suspect we got sold a bill of goods with Russell's great passing reputation.

That suspicion turned out correct because Russell the great passer didn't exist. That player was a fabrication of the media and the "experts".

I saw Ben Simmons show more passing ability in a half of his last years summer league game than Ball has shown me in two full games. That worries me just like it did Russell because a great passer is a great passer. You notice it fast.

And make no mistake, Ball was drafted by us at two because he was supposed to be a transcendent passer, which was why we drafted Russell.

If like Russell, Ball is not that, the Lakers made a mistake in that pick, because that was Balls true value, what set him apart, what made him better than the players we passed on.

Let's hope tonight we see some evidence of the passing magic which made him our choice.

Speaking of Magic, he may want to rethink the Ball is the face of the franchise coronation. In my view, Ingram is going to be so special that Ball will have to end up one of the top fifteen or so players in NBA history to beat Ingram out for that honor.

And I also wonder, why did Magic even say that? And what did Ingram think of his boss bestowing the face of the franchise on Ball before he even played one game?

The other bad from last night was Zubac. He seemed sluggish and slow all night. He didn't finish at the rim like he should have and missed passes that were right there. He has a much stronger body this year and he needs to use it.

If he and Bryant keep playing like they did last night Bryant will quickly take that slot behind Lopez.

Wasn't a great performance from Ball. He was taking wide open shots that weren't going down, and if they went down we would be singing a different tune. If the shot isn't going down, that's going to affect the passing because the passing lanes aren't there anymore. The defense will sag off and focus on everyone else, and that's what you saw last night. Ingram definitely showed out, though. My goodness. But when it comes to Ball, I feel he is going to have to score a little more than he is used to, otherwise his game will become too predictable. Need to keep the defense honest. I think he'll have a much better game tonight against Boston. As far as the "face of the franchise" talk, I'm not sure how much to put into that. He said that about 4 other guys as well. And he did refuse to trade Ingram and say that they were going to build around him, so I'm not sure what to make of his statements.

I agree with the "Face of the Franchise" comments. First thing I thought was, Wasn't that supposed to

Be Ingram just a year ago? And just a year before that weren't they saying the same thing about Russell? And secondly I thought, What is the deal with these labels that only the Lakers are so adamant about now that Kobe is retired? "Face of the Franchise, handed the keys to the franchise, etc.

The lakers have become so enthralled with replacing Kobe Bryant that I think it's become an issue for the franchise. Why is it that as soon as we draft someone we have to label them the face of the franchise? Why even talk about that? Just let it happen. There isn't a face of the franchise right now. It'll probably be a few years before that happens. The Timberwolves didn't have to run through all these labels while drafting to best young prospects possible in Wiggins and Towns. They just let them play. Whichever turns out better will be "the face of the franchise" or neither will. Seems like they just go out and play. The only team that seems to be so concerned with that label is the Lakers.

Hearing the name Bryant didn't weird me out because they rarely referred to Kobe as anything but Kobe, or the Mamba towards the end.

Cali,

Yes. This whole face of the franchise coronation is ridiculous. As you said, one of these players, or maybe none of them, will someday emerge as the face of the franchise by earning it on the court.

You just don't peremptorily give that to a player by the fiat of the boss man because he wants it so.

Why say that? Do really want put a huge amount of pressure on a teenage rookie, Ball? Really? That's a great idea.

Or make sure that Ingram knows his new place, as the guy who can't be the face of the franchise? I bet Ingram really enjoyed it when he found out he is not going to be the face of the franchise.

Magic really can be an all world goof ball and idiot.

Hey Magic, how about you just shut up and let the players sort things out, like they always do based on skill, ability, drive and heart.

I get the funny feeling Magic wants to replay his career and relationship with Dr. Buss only this time he gets to play the Doctor and Ball gets to be Magic. His attraction to Ball and things he's said before Ball has even shown anything seem to carry a certain psychology to it. You can almost see him trying to relive the past as much as he can with with this kind of role reversal with him, Buss and Ball.

If Magic wasn't married to a very suspicious (for good reason) wife and HIV positive he probably would already be taking Ball out to nightclubs to hook up with flocks of girls like Buss did with him back in the good old days.

I'll just keep it simple, if and when and individual becomes the face of the team, we'll know it. Now is not the time.

I was thinking the same thing about Ingram, although he does seem to not care about that stuff, seems incredibly mature, but at the same time... is that no kinda disrespectful to him? This new guy that's never played a minute in the NBA is taking your spot as the face of the franchise. Sorry Brandon. No hard feelings. Just such a stupid thing that the Lakers and the LA media fixate on.

So glad that the Russell trade wasn't followed up by an even dumber trade for George... but still have no faith in Magic. This whole saving cap space and chasing a washed up LBJ plan is extremely idiotic and even worse than the previous administration. Even though they were hated, I have more faith in Kupchak than Magic. The same way I wouldn't trust Kobe to be put in charge. Star players will chase star players. Kobe would probably go after guys like Westbrook. Tons of guys he sees as "killers" like himself.

Just sitting here hoping we are wrong about magic.

Exactly.

I live in abject fear Cali.

Magic certainly would have traded for George if they had the opportunity even though everyone knows he is coming here next year. And if he doesn't come, so what?

I live in huge fear that Magic will continue to trade players to clear cap space for Lebron. We all know what his end game is: George and Lebron playing for the Lakers, beating the Warrior super team and returning us to glory under Magic's brilliant guidence. The problem with that end game is you mortgage a huge part of the future and Golden State will still beat a Lebron-George Lakers team.

We can only hope events conspire to somehow keep Lebron away next year just as they prevented the Lakers-George trade.

I agree with your remarks about Ingram's maturity. I have no doubt he didn't call his agent in a fit when he heard Magic's coronation of Ball like many other young, high picks would have.

I'm sure he noticed, who wouldn't in his shoes? But like you said, I think in the end he didn't care and perhaps also thought, "We'll see".

Ingram looks special in all ways. Mentally as well as physically.

Randy, I have no doubt Magic would go for the Full Monty to sign Lebron/PG and other constellation of stars. Lol. He is just feeding the goats before the inevitable slaughter. The way they unceremoniously dumped Russell is still mind boggling and something I have not yet come to reconcile with. I am still grasping for reasons or looking for a rationale to vindicate the buffoons. I really felt Ball would elevate Russell's game and vice versa. However having said that I must also mention, that Magic had been openly saying to the media/press that everyone except for Ingram is....

Roman,

Maybe Ball is his son. From the stories I read of Magic's escapades he may have dozens out there.

But seriously, yeah you can pretty much see a certain pathology at work with Magic and Ball and Johnson wanting to relive the old glory days.

Sadly I just saw that Ingram is done for the rest of the summer league. I was afraid that might happen and it flat out stinks.

It was cramps. You see players in every sport get them and come back in the same quarter. Now Ingram is some China doll?

I can still see Magic jumping off the bench last night running his hand across his throat saying, that is it!

I wonder how Magic the player, or Bird or Jordan or Kobe would feel about being finished over a cramp for the whole tournament?

I'm pretty sure I know.

That decision is so silly.

He'll always be a skinny guy I suspect, but did you notice his body? For a guy with his frame, I thought he had gained a very good amount of muscle!

Cali,

I heard he's gained ten pounds of muscle. And you can see beyond that the weight he had is firmer.

I'm not worried about that at all. He literally is a kid. His man body is five years off. He looks and played much stronger last night.

You know who else looks like a new body? Zubac. That was great to see too. Problem is he played like he lost twenty pounds of muscle LOL.

Man I really hope we see some of the special Ball tonight, especially passing. If it's another blank I will actually start having some doubt.

Randy,

Honestly that's quite a bummer how Magic yanked him out of the lineup, especially since he was having a breakout performance. He would have surely dominated the SL games and this would have been a good confidence booster for the kid. The momentum would have carried over to the regular season. Not to mention the precedent it sets for the other players next time they get cramps. Lol

Let these playing time decisions remain with the coaching staff, medical staff and the player concerned. But then again Magic likes to exhibit he's the head honcho. How about throwing your weight around by signing someone of significance, with the cap space you so (creatively) created after orchestrating a silly salary dump? There was a lot of noise about FA's flocking to LA with Magic/Pelinka at the helm. All I hear is crickets.

SPQR with another splendid posting. Summer league don't really matter to me. Its just to get exp and fight for contracts. What matter is regular season games where players need to prove their worth. Ingram being a franchise player is a maybe. He improved but still want to see him dominate in nba. Magic calling ball a franchise player before he even prove his worth is funny. Idk, maybe he'll be a franchise player. But I won't judge how these players play until they play in regular season and prove their worth.

My gosh! the pseudo-bball experts are at it again and now hitting Magic for his special treatment of Ball. One night of horrible shooting will not diminish the talent of Ball projected to be a star player in the league. Ingram is worst, he has to contend with his lackluster performance the whole season last year and yet the Front Office including the coach stood by him and said that he is the future star. Magic likewise said that among the Lakers players, Ingram is the only one untouchable. Ingram proved to us fans last night in his game against the Clippers which we all witnessed a very different Ingram from last season. Just like Ingram, Ball will definitely overcome this nightmare first game experience as a lakers, because you cannot just erase this exceptional talent in your system which was reinforced by years of playing. Ball will be a very good player as what the great NBA players assessed.

It was just a cramp for Ingram, don't understand why they had to pull him out the rest of summer league. At least let him play the next 2 games against Boston and Sacramento. If he wants to play, and fans want to see him play, he should play. It wasn't a knee injury that can get worse. Is Magic now going to sit him during the regular season every time he gets little nicks and dings? Really annoying.

Celtics,

Ridiculous. Totally. Annoying.

He's one of the guys all the Lakers fans wanted to see along with Ball. Hopefully Magic wrapped him up in bubble wrap for the rest of his time in Vegas so no spasm or itch lays him low for the season.

Roman,

Did you know Magic is not only the boss now but he won a title his rookie year? Something he managed to slip into the first Ball press conference loud and clear....for some reason. You know, the press conference that was supposed to be about Ball.

Magic was waiting for some response from the reporters when he brought it up and they just stood there in silence. Probably thinking the same things I was, Wow, that was pretty contorted how he went from Ball to making sure everyone listening knows he won the title as a rookie just as he knows Ball won't, hmmm... lol. And man, the ego lives on even if Showtime is long dead.

It was funny, in a sad, pathetic kind of way.

LegendaryDino,

Thanks for the words. The funny thing I like about summer league is the kids are going against their contemporaries, not grizzled vets. So you kind of can judge them against their own age group. It's a different kind of interesting than the regular season.

Second game over and my thoughts on the Lakers and some other things: Ball looked much better! More like the guy I Have been hearing about and not the guy I watched in two games. I loved how he really pushed the ball either with the dribble or the long pass. Very aggressive in initiating the offense. He also passed well. He saw the seams and got the ball through on time on target. I was very relieved to see that. He looked like a guy who can pass even if you didn't know a thing about him or his reputation. The 11 rebounds were nice. At six six you want him to rebound. This can launch the break without an outlet pass. His shot does worry. He seems to step back because of that hitch or hurry to get it off. The Lakers may be wise to work on that motion now and not wait to see if it's a problem since it may take time to change and him to feel comfortable. How about Kuzma? Man. When we picked him one of the draft guys said, This is one of those guys who four years from now everyone will be asking, how did he fall so far in the draft? You know what, yeah, that's exactly what he looks like. He looks calm, confident. He can shoot, he can rebound, he can defend, he is athletic. How did he fall so far? I have a feeling he will end up the steal of the draft. Any of you guys think the same? How long will it take him to supplant Nance? The other thing is he seems to already have a feel with Ball when they are both on the court. My friend Gemfow said something interesting to me about him today. He said with Randle's contract coming....

SPQR, agree Kuzma looked good, but at same time, I don't put to much into summer league. Will be waiting to see if it continues for remaining SL games and into preseason.

As far as Randle goes, don't think they'll get that much in return with his contract almost up , Unless he agrees to sign and trade, if he was to get traded.

Randy,

Yeah I think he is definitely expendable considering the logjam at 4. The contract situation is definitely a motivation or rather a deterrent...lol.

But more than that we need a 4 who can stretch the floor under the current NBA landscape. Randle unfortunately is a slightly undersized 4 and does not possess a jumper. Kuzma has the edge since he is about the same size as Randle and can hit from the outside. He has a sound Mid ranger as well. Kuzma is more versatile since he can also slide to the 3 due to his shooting abilities.

Randle is quite suspect on defense, whereas Kuzma is stellar on that end of the floor. He has all the makings of an excellent wing defender. Most scouting reports highly touted his defensive prowess especially his weak side/help defense.

It's not surprising they got Kuzma in the draft since he addresses everything which was lacking with Randle. I also like his hunger when he's on the floor. Last night's honors actually belonged to Kuzma and not Tatum. Tatum is the designated shooter but Kuzma was more efficient and grabbed almost the same number of rebounds as Tatum.

Larry Nance being there just cancels out Randle thus making him the odd duck and the impending contract situation further exacerbates the problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if they even got rid of Clarkson. They could be packaged together to get rid of the other Dinosaur we have on the squad. I hope they sign Caldwell Pope in the interim. You need a team before you can dream of assembling a super team. Pope is slowly developing into a good 2 way player and is the brighter prospect of the two.

PS: Our Dear friend Userpete first brought it to our attention, that Kuzma resembles Ben Simmons. Lol

But I feel that Kuzma plays like Simmons as well. (Kuzma is the better shooter and Simmons the better passer).

Randle will have a breakout year upcoming season. He is already a double-double machine and I really hope he stays as an LA cause we are gonna regret if we pack him and send away

Roman, The signs don't look good for Randle with that contract coming up and the FO's desire to get George and Lebron with Nance and now Kuzma in the wings. I'm not a huge Nance fan. He seems limited. Ok for a backup but would never want him starting unless something really drastic happens with his game. I think Kuzma may have starter ability. He seems really versatile and has obvious talent. Pope would be a nice signing. The problem there is I suspect we will offer him a one year deal, once again, in lieu of Lebron and George next season. We have already lost some free agent signings because we would only offer a one year deal. I would not be surprised to see the Lakers trade Clarkson or anyone to keep getting salary down for the George-Lebron welcome mat next year. Shaq, Randle is an interesting guy. He does some things really well. He is a good passer and like you say, he can put up points and boards. There are things about him that can bug you. He doesn't play well without the ball and has not developed a consistent outside shot. He also doesn't seem to be adding moves to his repertoire that is so very important for a players progress. He's not really a good defender. He is a bit undersized. It is also possible that he will have break out year this season which will make him desirable to keep. The problem of course is George and Lebron. Magic and Pelinka are serious about getting them and that means Randle's new contract won't happen. Unless he looks so good this year that it becomes crazy to let him go. I don't really like how everything now predicates around getting Lebron and George. And of course there is talk of Westbrook too. If Lebron....

Because it's Hollywood amigo. Everything has to be hyperbole, bigger than life, to get anyone here to pay attention to it. Sad...and largely why I think the team is so dysfunctional. As goes the city, so goes it's teams.

I've heard Magic speak very nicely about RNdle so that's one thing he has going for him, but he does need to take a good step forward this season to make sure he's too valuable to get rid of. Magic recently said in an interview that he thinks Randle will have a breakout year.... So maybe that's a bad sign if Magic is saying it Haha!

I'm not gonna lie, I was interested in seeing what you had to say today SPQR

Cali,

That was one of the more interesting remarks sent my way over the years because of its brevity, oblique quality and many possible implications.

So I gotta ask, what were you looking to see and did it happen?

Well, it's not as deep as it sounds, but you critiqued Ball for his poor game, rightfully so... and when I saw that he had a triple double and watched the game highlights I wanted to know your thoughts. I remember over a year ago you critiquing Russell the same way, again rightfully so, and I was in full agreement. The whole next Magic Johnson label was a joke. The guy did not play PG.

That and I liked that you didn't judge either off their numbers but watched to see how they played. It's not about production in the summer league. I mean we're not even talking about preseason. But it's a good way for us to watch the players and see what we can see in their game.

So yes, it happened. I was please to read your remarks.

You remember what I'm talking about with Russell? Long post about not seeing "it". The special passer and ability to play point guard spew that we were fed when he was drafted not being there. Was in complete agreement back then.

Cali,

I sure do remember that post and your agreement.

Watching Russell in the summer league then those first games of the regular season was one of the biggest disappointments of my laker life. You could clearly see that the main reason we drafted him didn't exist in reality. My heart just started dropping the more i saw him. You could see he was a good player but not what was advertised. And we drafted him for what was advertised.

As you said the next Magic label was a joke. He wasn't even Kendall Marshall as a passer.

Makes you wonder what guys like Pitino and others were looking at or smoking, when they made those pronouncements.

That's why I was a little worried when the first two games i saw Ball and he looked like.... Russell.

Pity we can't see more of Fox to draw any comparisons. But so far Tatum is looking good. Anyone see any of the other lottery pics play yet to see how they do?

Tony,

I saw Fox destroy Ball in that hyped college game. He made Ball look like he was standing still on both ends of the floor. It was very impressive.

I haven't seen him since but I heard he had a very good game the other night.

If it's not on ESPN I can't get it.

I saw a very long interview with Fox before the draft and he knocked me out. I've never seen a kid that young sound so together and so mature.

He attacks on both ends of the floor like his life depends on it. Think young Kobe. He's a athletic and is about as fast as you can get.

I would've had no problem if the lakers had taken him and I am very confident he will be a star.

Just heard Ball will not play tonight against.............Fox!

Came down with an injury.

I am the least conspiratorial person you will even know. You throw up a conspiracy and I will always almost attack it. But man, one sure gets that funny feeling the last thing Magic wants is to see Fox rip Ball apart again like he did last time, especially for the second game in a row.

And especially when we could have drafted Fox and many fans and experts thought he was the better long range choice.

Smells like old mother hen Magic at work again, just like with Ingram's cramp.

That's too bad Ball came down with the injury when the whole basketball nation was waiting for this rematch. Did he get it in a casino?

It would certainly be impractical for Ball to get an injury every time we play the Kings, wouldn't it? Come Lakers, let him play Fox. You can't run from it forever. The kid has to learn to deal with him eventually. Let it get started.

Indeed. There's little doubt that's what's happening. And it's not a conspiracy theory if it's true lol. I was one in favor of Fox myself. I just didn't want the Ball circus coming to town. But it seems like they just couldn't resist, so now we'll see where things end up. Hollywood just can't help itself. It's a self perpetuating machine. If there's controversy and marketing opp's to be done, esp when someone else has already done the heavy lifting, they're on it like a band of sharks.

Tony, If Ball isn't really injured it's a damn shame what Magic is doing. I mean how would Ball feel about it? Not only would it hurt his pride as a player but he would think, Wow, Magic doesn't believe I can deal with this guy. The face of the franchise no less. The thing is this, lets say they played tonight and Fox ran him out of the gym again. So then this: if Ball is a great player, it will just motivate him to work even harder, to get better, to deal with Fox. It certainly wouldn't crush him if he is a real player. All great players in any sport respond like that to defeat and adversity. If Ball is great, no worries if Fox runs him again. So I have to think Magic is more so protecting his hide than even Ball's. Because the last thing he wants after Ball's last good game and all the fun, happy press that he thrives on would be to sit there for an hour after that game and answer questions about why Fox owns Ball and if it concerns him, if he thinks maybe they should have taken Fox. And so if Ball is not hurt, it really is a shame that Magic won't let this happen just to protect his own skin and reputation more than any thing else. As for taking Fox over Ball? Tony, you know I'm not shy about voicing my opinions. But here's the thing with me, I only do so after I feel I have observed a player or situation long enough to in my own mind give an opinion based in fact. Here's what I know: When Fox and Monk went to Kentucky I read Fox was the best point guard coming out and those two guys could....

SPQR, keeping Ball out of tonight's game did come at a bad time, considering it's against Fox. But Lakers also said before 1st SL game that Ball and Ingram were coming in injured. As for that game against Fox in tournament, only 14 of those 39 pts were against Ball, not to make excuses, but UCLA was near bottom of NCAA in defense. Funny how nobody ever mentions 1st game against Kentucky were Ball basically won game for UCLA. If people are expecting Ball to be a scorer , that's not his strength.

Also so far in SL, Fox, Jackson have been just as bad as Ball from behind arc.

So game 1 , he's not a good passer

After game 2 , he's a good passer

Terry Teagle, I will assume your post was aimed at me. I would invite you to read my posts again. No where will you find me saying after game one that Ball was not a good passer. I never made that statement. What I said was he didn't show me in that game what I was looking for in a good passer. There is a big difference in those two statements, right? Did he look like a great passer to you in that first game? If you didn't know he was Ball, would you have watched that first game and thought, Man, that guy can pass like nobodies business! Of course you wouldn't. No one would. I said after the second game he did show me evidence of the that skill set in that particular game. Did you see it too? So I don't see anything I said there regarding both games that was in error at all. I think you would agree with my opinions of both games Ball had, if you watched them as I did. I know sometimes a poster will skim someones post and then reply to what they thought was said, which I guess you did. I've been guilty of that in the past and make a strong effort not to do it anymore. I would say if you are going to reply to someones post, take the time to read it carefully so you fully understand what was said and that way you won't put false comments out to the original poster as you did here to me concerning something I never said about Ball. Kkennon, Ball did not give up the full 39 points to Fox, thankfully. But this is college ball. When a player in any college game scores 14 in a full game it is considered a....

It's summer league ... I don't get to high or too low on guys... just look for a skill set and potential

I see our rookies with both skill sets and potential ... great draft by us... all guys will contribute

Also, in real NBA games ... the pros will make you look better especially as a PG... guys who can finish on a great pass

Agree, although our outside shooting as a team worries me.