Gary Payton: Kobe's Mentality Hurting The Lakers

Agree or disagree?

Sad but true. You can't fault a guy for having their opinion but at the same time calling what he (without filter) sees. And it's just not an opinion - it's a compilation of them that share the same observation. It has become a concurred finding.

I agree. I think a lot of it is him not trusting his teammates but then on the flip side you can say he's not even giving his teammates chance. So yeah I agree.

ESPN is a Hater, TNT is a hater, Nbatv is a hater, Chuckie Charley is a hater, David Stern/Adam Silver are haters, Most NBA owners are haters, some LTB members are haters.....and now Gary Payton is a hater...😜😂😝😛

It's interesting to note that the term "hater" was introduced by kobe himself for his critics, during various interviews, to deflect blame and criticism away from him..lol. It appears that his die hard worshippers bought into that garbage and have taken it to another stratospheric level.

Gary Payton isn't a hater. Pretty sure him and Kobe are really good friends. This is purely objective and I strongly agree with him. Kobe is shooting 39% this season and is an extreme volume shooter. He should cut down his shots and try his best to get the team involved, even when the talent isn't there.

The Glove ... Love that dude, wish we had him in his prime

The only way these guys will have any chance of winning ANY game is if he tries to get the other guys involved. Yes I know the talent isn't there. But this chucking up shots hasn't worked in the past, isn't working now, and will not work in the future. Regardless of the fact that almost all of these guys are mediocre, they have to feel confident. Look at that win against New Orleans and the game against the Clippers they almost stole. Notice anything in the box score? Unless he's come to realize he doesn't care and is just trying to pass people on the scoring list.

I've been saying the same thing on this website along with some other posters. Kobe needs to ditch this, "screw you, I'll do it myself mentality." He is hurting the team with this type of behavior because then guys won't play on the defensive end if they're just going to watch one guy shoot the ball. This seems to be hard for certain posters to understand. It's no fun playing with a guy who just looks to get his shot off and you know that you're open. It doesn't matter that Kobe is the most talented guy on the squad, he needs to get these lesser guys some shots. Now when Nick comes back, Kobe will play buddy ball with Nick and Boozer

Guys,

This year is a done deal. The lakers are going to stink. Our only hope is to have one of the three worst records to secure a top 5 pick so we don't have to surrender it to PHX. (Notice i say 3 instead of 5 in case two teams win the lottery outside 5 worst teams). We are competing with only Philly and Maybe Denver in this regard. This year is about kobe breaking records, and byron scott coming home. The Lakers are a reality tv show, and this is the focus this year.

I think we might have to include Indiana in the mix. They are being blown out by Denver!!!!

I am beginning to get scared of Indiana...they are entering the tank league! One more thorn in the flesh to contend with!!!!😡😡👺👎

I'm only going to post once on this thread. Kobe would be able to control games more if he had other players on the team who could allow him to pick and choose his spots like in ALL of his championship years. He has to be more aggressive on a garbage team. Kobe's name is an attention getter. He shouldn't even be the topic of discussion right now. Our interior defense and lack of talent are the problems right now.

I have to disagree.n Kobe has the same mentality he had when he was saddled with a garbage squad in 2005. The difference is that Kobe's body has taken a beating over those 10 years and he's aged of course. The Lakers wouldn't be 1-8 with that Kobe(2005) playing but he's trying to shoot as if he's still that Kobe which he is not.

I thought most of us want to tank this season so let Kobe play hero ball, and let others go one on one so that we will surely get a top 5 pick for next year. But this is so sad.

Very nicely put.

All 100% truth, Gary said it perfectly. Kobe runs to the ball disrupts the offensive set, does his ISO bullsh*t and takes a contested jumpshot. His poor shooting has been the main reason for the majority of our losses, you guys need to open your eyes and see that.

I agree with you 100%. Doesn't even seem like Kobe is trying to win. He's just going for the scoring records. If he was actually trying to win he'd be put in the post and create plays for everyone else other than shooting these ridiculosly contested shots.

Tonight was another perfect example. Kobe scored at will, but didn't distribute the ball to anyone else - and the final score tells the story.

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/534200872989773825

Just in case there is still some doubt about personal agendas!!!! SMH

This is just an opinion of one of the NBA execs, probably not even Lakers' staff, or anyone close to Kobe. I don't think there is a single person on the planet, besides Kobe himself (and that includes his immediate family and his agent) who truly knows why Kobe's shooting this much, given how bad the outcome is for the team, and the 37.7% shooting percentage. And while I'm 100% certain the information from this "league source" is a pure speculation of that person - unfortunately for the Lakers....

Yeah Kobe is jacking up a lot shots but on this team DEFENSE is the BIGGEST problem with this team, they can't stop nobody Giving up 100 points a night not stopping anybody in the paint. To many open shots it just ridiculous. Even with the lack of talent, there is no reason for not playing hard on D.

Example the bulls without D Rose was not that good on offense but their D did keep them in a lot of their games. B Scott has to get in these guys a** about their D

First of all - yes, there is a reason. The game has to be fun for players to play and every player needs to know, that if he works hard on the defensive end he'll get rewarded and get to touch the ball and sometimes shoot the ball on offense. On 80% of Lakers' possessions PG brings the ball up and then Kobe shoots it and 3 players don't even get to touch the ball, let alone shoot it. It's a frustrating, unfair and unrewarding situation. The rest of the Lakers shouldn't be expected to be Kobe's garbage men, who hassle on every possession, just so he could hog the ball, do his dance and shoot it on the other end. It's an established and well known fact, bigs don't run as well in transition D if they don't even get to touch the ball on offense, and every player's motivation to hassle and defend will go down if all he does is chase people like a dog, running back and forth, touching the ball on 1 out of 4 possessions and being limited to like 2 shots per game because Kobe takes the rest.

Second, like I said - you cannot teach Jordan Hill or Ed Davis to be 7 feet. They are decent players, and they do hassle, but they are not centers and when they go against legit bigs like Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, DeAndre Jordan, Tim Duncan and other true 7 foot centers other teams have - the truth is they're just not long enough to contest their jumpers and sky hooks and they don't have enough in their back pocket to avoid getting bumped and hold their ground in the post. Sacre is the only 7 footer on the team, but since he's about as talanted as Kwame Brown he's just a banging body for practice and we all see how many minutes per game he gets.

So when he is not on the court what is the problem then. Look I'm not trying to excuse Kobe, but it really doesn't matter who is shooting or who is not shooting or if the ball was being shared more this team is horrible on D even if you take in the consideration of the lack of size there is still no kind of structure on D. I know there are many things wrong with the Lakers and Kobe shot selection is one of them but the defense is worser than last year

You got to understand Peyton is one of these players like Barkley that used to play hard like Kobe but they never won a championship. So for both of those players to criticize a player like Kobe that has proven that with a good surrounding group of role players they can win with Kobe. I think five rings speak for themselves. These players that Kobe has right now are garbage. They know that they are not good. When they get the ball, they do not know what to do with the darn thing. I keep yelling at Lin the cry baby to shoot. Instead he starts dribbling and turns the ball over. Hill seems like he is stuck in quick sand. Johnson just has that stupid look and is worthless 90% of the time. Boozer tries hard, but he has never been a defensive player and it is too late to start now at the twilight of his career. I agree that Kobe should not be shooting as much at his age. But like he says, once you fall down by seventeen points, somebody has to keep this team close to give them a chance. Don't kid yourself Laker fans. This team has very few good players. I can name them all in the fingers in one hand. Some have just come back from injuries, but they are legit nba players. Here we go: Kobe, Young, Davis, Henry and Kelly. The rest of the players are not really that good. They are below average. Sacre not a good center. Lin turns the ball over too much and plays out of control. Johnson and Hill just do not try hard this season. ....

Like i mentioned in the beginning of the thread..... Peyton, like Barkley will eventually be dubbed a hater

The Lakers need defensive players. When we lost Metta, we lost our best defender. DEFENSE! DEFENSE! Some of you fans have to learn that not everybody in a team has to shoot. There are five positions. The one position is the point guard. His job is to run the offense, take shots only if he does not have a shooting guard open or a center to pass the ball to. The two spot is the shooting guard. His job is to shoot the ball exactly what his title is. Most of the time this player is your better shooter. He should not be doing the point guards job. All he has to do is shoot and play defense. The three spot is the small forward, he does about the same as the shooting guard, but will be used a lot on defensive assignments. Also he may be used as a cutter kind of like Ariza used to do with the Lakers. The four spot is the power forward. Most of the time these guys are the enforcers and will body up to guards trying to penetrate and stop the lay ups, and if they do penetrate give a good hard foul, but not a three point play. Let them earn the shot on the line. Prefer them rebounding and playing defense, not much offense. But if left wide open, you got to be able to score. The five spot is the center and to me this is one of the most important positions of the five players on the floor. He definitely has to play defense, block shots, rebound and score. The Lakers really do not have a good center. Sacre is more of a cheerleader on the....

Yeah i really like the coach's philosophy:

Put the ball in the hands of __________ (choose superstar).....and pray! This looks more like a DUFUS/Banana Republic Offense....not Princeton.

I finally understand Linsanity, here is an example. A team must be Linsanity to give him a starting position or you must be Linsanity if you think he will score 6 points a game. On another note, the rock needs to be distributed more evenly, it cannot always end up in Kobe's hands. I thought Scott was going to solve this problem since I do not remember the Showtime Lakers playing this way. Another thought, the starting lineup needs to change, when is Scott going to make the necessary adjustments?

It's never on Kobe is it? Hero worship and idolatry is always illogical... If he has the ability to control the game, and the players and the coach and what 2 billion people do three nights a week 82+ times each season, than he has the ability to control his choices too? He is not out of control nor is he deluded that shooting 30-40 times / game is going to result in victories. It's like the guy who stands in the narrow passage of a club where all the girls must squeeze by who says, "I'm just waiting for my friend." Kobe cannot pull a Nash and say his version of 'I'm in it for the money'. If Kobe were to say, "This team sucks so I'm gonna set some records and get paid a King's ransom while doing it," his reputation and fame would plummet, his endorsements would flee and his teammates would move his locker to the adjacent room. Why is it so hard for people to keep it real? What he's doing is obvious. Shooting more has never led to victories. EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER! The man in the video stated that his 4th quarter efficiency is at 29%! Do we all believe that he genuinely thinks this is about aggression due to a lack of support? He's programmed to win and enters a zone when he's in the game so Coach Scott must temper his tendencies but, Kobe's not a robot! In fact, he's more real and personable this year than ever with the media. The truth is that this team is not terrible. Most things are new, there are many injuries and management is highly suspect so no, the Lakers will not win so what....

For those that like conspiracies, it was also quite obvious that Senor Bryant was indoctrinated into a small group of people with his initiation on the front page of the sports section of the LA Times on 'May Day - The virgin offering and rite of Spring' and then his 7 part 'Kobe System' commercials celebrating his new shoe that abstracted serpent scales into a tread type, both a few of years ago. Nobody here thinks his Puritan Pilgrim outfit was a fashion statement I trust?

May Day outfit -

Kobe System Level 6 (funny excerpt and very relevant) -

The people in the Kobe System audience are all financially mega-wealthy and purveyors of great social influence...like Kobe. Their 'masters' offer greater prospects to the members if they agree to come into the fold. These two public events were part of Kobe's initiation into that world. Their belief system is based on Hedonism, derived from Satanism (no, not the red faced guy with horns), an ancient society principle that is practiced by these elite groups still today. The word Satan comes from one of two sources. The Shetland Islands in Scotland or the word Sheitan which means, more or less, 'invisible head' which is a very useful political concept too. You decide but as far as I can tell, the attitude, the behavior and the shoes fit perfectly!

^^ Lol! That's what I always suspected myself. And it's not too far fetched, frankly speaking. I had made a humble attempt to put across a couple of analogies myself, which was met with stiff resistance by the lynch mob squads and "Defenders of the kobe faith" wielding pitch forks and other dangerous ammunition. Lol. The Kobe system, however is not limited to kobe itself, as s matter of fact it runs Deep.... It has percolated down to his loyal/fanatic fanbase. "Feathers of a kind flock together," and it is so common to see folks with similar....hostile/ aggressive / pompous/arrogant characteristics gravitate towards their master who possesses all of the above mentioned qualities in abundance. That becomes quite evident when, you attempt to make an objective assessment of the team and obviously no player is outside the purview of criticism/analysis or appraisals. Kobe fans seem comfortable when other players come under the hammer and joyfully chip in with their two cents as well, however when the same objective critique is also offered or extended for kobe, they get hostile, defensive, rude and take it personally as if someone committed the ultimate blasphemy. It's like you abused their near and dear relative. Their master can do no wrong...the master has been immortalized by these vain fans. If this is not delusion, then it is Denial. At the end of the day this is just sports with obvious fan following, however it feels more like a cult following with kobe and his followers. This is a dangerous emotional following!!! It is quite irritating and exasperating, especially for fans who have been following the team since time immemorial, to be harried on forums(including being labelled a hater) when it comes to discussing kobe, by....

I'm a professional designer (architect) and this requires that I listen carefully, interpret creatively and with precision but also I must be stern especially with clients who cannot make up their mind for various reasons. The clients that utter the phrase, "I know exactly what I want," are the ones to be avoided. That statement means 'exactly' the opposite. People use phrases and maintain beliefs so the truth, or rather the Truth, can be managed indirectly. I have become a bit of a behaviorist in order to do my job literally listening to what does not get stated as carefully as what does get stated. I do the same here on LTB though in a more casual and bar chat manner. I also used to teach design and of the 400 or so students I interacted with, maybe five (5) had the courage to speak their mind directly rather than desperately trying to say what they thought I wanted to hear and by no coincidence they were the best designers. I used to dock any student when they would used the word 'should'. Never should on yourself ya' know! From these experiences, I don't judge, but I do critique objectively and I find that this is genuinely difficult for most people. People's identities get tied up with their emotions and Kobe's success to a great extent becomes personalized on an emotional level as if it's happening to the fan as well. Admit it, and you know who you are, there is a sense of surrender that occurs when all hope is placed upon a form of success that does not require a real commitment and as such is not available to the little people in the world like myself and presumably....

Lol!

So Kobe is like the devil?

This guy is losing it.

You guys are putting way too much thought into this season. Only real way to look at this is the Lakers are tanking we have been since Julius went down. Note how kobe began jacking up all the shots after Randle was injured. Kobe was playing a pretty well balanced game during the preseason you can talk about his ego but kobe's no dummy. He knows he can't win games by himself anymore. Scott is no dummy either and he has to know the team can't win with love taking all those shots. The FO has to know this team just isn't talented enough to win. Note how they aren't rushing to replace Nash or Randle. They still have to put some kind of entertaining show one the floor so the Lakeshowd has become "let's see how many points Kobe can score show." That appeases the Kobe fans and gives something for the media and Kobe haters to talk about keeping the lakers in the conversation. We're tanking plain and simple. We can't just come out and say it so everyone is saying all the right things but their actions speak louder than their words.

LMAO!!!!!!!!......

lol almost every expert, analyst, and ex-player is criticizing kobe and yet somehow, there are people on here that call them ignorant. why can't people learn to accept criticism? no body is taking kobe's 5 rings away. no one is refuting his status as one of the all time greats. people are simply making observations and are questioning his decisions and current mind set. i get the die hard kobe fandom but you just have to relent a bit and realize the guy is 36 years old. 36!!! that is old as hell in basketball years. he's taking as many shots as his age a game!! no one ever in the history of basketball, future past or present will EVER win a game at 36 years old taking 40 shots. it just won't happen!!!

You're a bit clueless aren't you? Birds of a feather. If the shoe fits. A walking, talking cliche. There is a vast difference between simply stated and simple minded. You are a symptom and no, nobody is coming to save you.

The symptoms are easy to identify. The problems are closely related to what I wrote. The solution is not simple by any means and starts with admitting the problem and committing to it completely. The details we have been discussing are symptoms and not causes, the expressed results of a systemic imbalance, which is true for every dis-ease. I also argue that injuries are strongly related to broken systems. The subconscious works in mysterious ways.

I thought we've been over this...You really gotta cut down on the drama and the length of those rants...Trying to read it quickly, in hope to extract some sort of point you're trying to make is reminiscent of a feeling of being stuck on 101 freeway on the way home and trying to get to your freeway exit, in order not to miss the start of the game.

I have a couple of questions:

1. There are multiple references in that poem above to "impending disaster", so what I would like to know is - why is it impending and what do you consider an actual disaster, since 1-9 season start, which included several home blowouts by 30 points or more, apparently does not qualify?

2. Other than <insert sarcastic adjective here> move to trade Kobe to New York (Kobe has no-trade clause btw) that screenplay you wrote does not provide any details on so called "reboot" - what exactly does your brilliant basketball mastermind mean by that? Care to share implementation details?

Over and over again. Kobe comes to the conclusion that the guys on his team are a bunch of slugs, and he can do it better than they can. And he's correct. However, when he does go off and score 50 in a night, the team almost always loses. That's because Basketball is a TEAM sport! Kobe Bryant is not a TEAM! He is one player. But until his team mates are able to do the job, what else do we have? Kobe always feels justified in going off when the other guys on his team just aren't there. The only way to get him to back off, is for the rest of the team to gain his confidence. With this group, that's just not going to happen.

As a matter of fact, that's probably why he rehabbed so well. Focus on coming back and scoring like crazy to beat more of Jordan's records. So Kobe is on track in his mind.

OH I forgot to mention that the Clippers got spanked again last night by the Bulls without Rose and without Pau. So I guess our friends favorite team the Clippers are not as good as everybody in the sports industry thought.

Maybe the culture has also broken down with the Clippers. Hmm! I got to check if any of those star players were promoting Nike shoes with snake scales. You know like the disease the Laker organization has. The disease of worshipping the God (Kobe) and the collapse of the great dynasty.

That post reminds me of the sixties when they were hitting LSD and freaking out.

Great post by zip. I think you are right zip.

Nice to meet you and thanks for the kind words. Why do you start with judgment! Apparently your little world view has been threatened! I don't NEED to do any damn thing thank you very much though in my opinion, your sort of response ought to be characterized as a personal attack rather than simply waiting for four letter words or personal dispersions. For the RECORD, blowing it up including this conversation is what is needed. Jeezus I despite arrogant, judgmental people!

WE have not been over anything. THIS has not ben covered at all. WE have been discussing symptoms and not causes and therefore over-simplyfying. If you cannot tell the difference, that's on you. I take the time to explain what one might call the 'grammar' of the situation and all you have to say is judgement and criticism. What a putz! The difference is the difference.

The disaster...apparently you desire a psychic. When a relationship is going to fail everyone more or less knows it. You can stick it out for days months or decades which is likely worse than the disaster of choosing to let it fail The details will determine themselves. The problem here is that Kobe's legacy and reputation are at stake. What has everyone been saying about Nash for example? It's terrible to see such a great player go out that way! Kobe's gonna go out perhaps a lot worse if this is not righted. It's flippin' obvious and I do not appreciate your ignorant sarcasm! Sit on the 101 until 2019 and b-itch until the cows come home. Rather than spewing you s-hitty attitude, why not provide your own answers and information?

Trading Kobe...the point is that Kobe is the person, the savior, that needs to initiate the solution. He has been put into that situation to include what he does and what he loves but also the rest of the mess too! My suggested 'solution' involves Kobe requesting a trade, precisely.

Next time either read it or don't read but spare me your half arse, half wit nonsense.

You do realize that you consistently celebrate ignorance and proving my points yes? Keeping the format the same. Isn't that exactly the problem? Fear of change? Don't blame the messenger....

The defenders of the faith abhor resistance, they despise change. They hate it when anyone challenges their little Utopia where fairly tale endings are revered and sought after. Denial and deluson is a killer drug! It corrodes common sense and logic. Man! The force is strong out here!

You know, while I do not think any of what I said can be classified as a personal attack, despite your perception of my post - I think calling someone arrogant, judgemental, having s-hitty attitude and a putz certainly is one, and there is no ambiguity about it.

While you and I are done talking about basketball, or anything else after your fugly flame, I do want to tell you a couple more things:

1. Posts like yours have no business to be on these forums and I'm going to make sure this gets addressed and I'm going to put my best effort into making sure you don't do this to anyone again.

2. I don't care if you have amnesia, short attention span or whatever else the reason for your memory lapse might be, but we HAVE been over the issue of your long posts before in another thread, where you exploded for a rant, probably twice longer than this one and I suggested your talents are probably going to waste here and there gotta be much better places to apply them than a sports forum. There has been a discussion, involving several people afterwards in that other thread, and several others also felt your essays are kind of out of place here.

3. Unfortunately for you, my desk has a better sense of humor than you do....Both times I suggested you're wasting your time & talents here, by writing such essays, because this is a sports forum and only very small percentage of forum users might appreciate them, if any - both times, here and in that other thread I said it in as humorous, non offensive way, as I possibly could, to give you a friendly advice, which your apparently narrow minded and twisted nature somehow managed to interpret as a personal attack.

Stay tuned to hear from forum admins and possibly Dave, because I'm going to make sure there isn't going to be a next time

I agree to a point. Kobe did this same thing even with Pau, Drew and Lamar. It just hasn't been this bad. I can see why Kobe does this but it's really hurting the team concept because he's essentially saying you guys suck.

Oh and

Skyeword- please refrain from personal attacks. If you don't want to read the posts from another member, please use the ignore button. Thanks.