How the Lakers Fell Apart.

Interesting read

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11257667/the-los-angeles-lakers-seem-turn-franchise-nba

When I saw ESPN on the link I refused to click it. The writer must had loved composing that article.

Can someone post the full article?

This is wrong.. it started with one move... Stearn nixing CP3 trade, we get him, then get Howard, we get another ring, or two.. and CP3 is still here and we rebuild around him and Howard after Kobe leaves... ONE FREAKING IDIOT nixing a deal... unheard of, unfair, and unprecendded...

This is wrong.. it started with one move... Stearn nixing CP3 trade, we get him, then get Howard, we get another ring, or two.. and CP3 is still here and we rebuild around him and Howard after Kobe leaves... ONE FREAKING IDIOT nixing a deal... unheard of, unfair, and unprecendded...

Absolutely. And it also left the Lakers with two spiritually broken players (Odom, Pau), post trade attempt. The league put someone in charge of New Orleans, he made a trade, and then the league stepped in to say that person wasn't in charge anymore. Damage done. Unreal. It really was the first domino and, sadly, I knew it back then. Kobe-CP3-D12 was a lock at that point.

One thing I've learned from all this is that no horse wants to be ridden by Mike Danphoni.

I will have to agree that the CP3 trade really did mess up the lakers. For those same reasons as posted above. Jim Buss has only done 2 things wrong in my eyes. And it was the past 2 coaches. I can't blame him for not getting Jackson though. I feel that they needed someone there for years in the future, and not a one year coach. That is why I support Scott right now. I think a lot of people are way too hard on Jim. We didn't get CP3 and that put the Lakers in a weird place with doing damage control. He was able to pull off Steve Nash, that was a shocker and a step in a good direction at the time. Then he pulled off getting Howard. Both these moves looked great at the time. There's always a best case scenario and a worst case scenario in all trade moves... And we got the worst case. I do have faith that the organization can get back on top. Jim has shown signs that he knows what he's doing for the most part. How many people wanted Bynum traded for Jason Kidd? I think it was smart to keep him at the time. If he didn't have the knee issues, hed be the best Center in the NBA right now. Keep faith and don't give this guy such a hard time.

You guys have to let the CP3 thing go. There is no guarantee that he was the key to a championship. Look at what the FO has done after the nixed trade? The Lakers' front office was greedy because they could have sweetened the deal to get CP3 by throwing in Bynum instead of Pau or instead of Lamar. I'm not saying that would have brought CP3 here but LA was given opportunity to put forth a better offer. They pulled away from the table because they truly wanted Howard and knew Bynum was the key to that. Stern hasn't killed the Lakers, the front office has.

I will have to agree that the CP3 trade really did mess up the lakers. For those same reasons as posted above. Jim Buss has only done 2 things wrong in my eyes. And it was the past 2 coaches. I can't blame him for not getting Jackson though. I feel that they needed someone there for years in the future, and not a one year coach. That is why I support Scott right now. I think a lot of people are way too hard on Jim. We didn't get CP3 and that put the Lakers in a weird place with doing damage control. He was able to pull off Steve Nash, that was a shocker and a step in a good direction at the time. Then he pulled off getting Howard. Both these moves looked great at the time. There's always a best case scenario and a worst case scenario in all trade moves... And we got the worst case. I do have faith that the organization can get back on top. Jim has shown signs that he knows what he's doing for the most part. How many people wanted Bynum traded for Jason Kidd? I think it was smart to keep him at the time. If he didn't have the knee issues, hed be the best Center in the NBA right now. Keep faith and don't give this guy such a hard time.

Those moves never really looked good. How would acquiring a 37 year old relic of a pg be considered good? On top of that no one in Phoenix seemed to be irate that Nash was leaving, this leads me to believe they knew he was done as a player. They acquired Howard without any sort of commitment. This was a a VERY bad risk even though it's a risk-taking business.

I think that an organization can't win it every year. That's unreal to do so. Fans must know that there will always be a time of rebuilding. Our time will come again in the future! We will rise again!

Those moves never really looked good. How would acquiring a 37 year old relic of a pg be considered good? On top of that no one in Phoenix seemed to be irate that Nash was leaving, this leads me to believe they knew he was done as a player. They acquired Howard without any sort of commitment. This was a a VERY bad risk even though it's a risk-taking business.

By getting Chris Paul the Lakers would've never traded for Stevs Nash and given away all those picks. So in a way everyone is still hurting and trying to move on from the "basketball reasons" decision, including yourself.

"gemfow" The Lakers' front office grew greedy"

Dumb comment... every FO should be greedy... and throwing in Bynum leaves us nothing to get Howard with, and they knew that was the next move... If they throw in Bynum we are left with what? Not much.... and no bigs... dumb dumb dumbo comments

So since you want to pull the gloves off let me point out how dumb your response is. Clearly reading isn't your strength, either that or you have a hard time comprehending simple things like the definition of instead.

I said they could have sweetened the deal by switching out Bynum with Gasol or Bynum with Odom. Stern wasn't going to accept two over thirty year old forwards for Chris Paul and the Lakers would have also shed salary.

When I said they were trying to be greedy I said that with the whole thing of them wanting Chris and Howard along with Kobe, they weren't content with just two stars which is why they overpaid for Nash. It's not always about having as many stars as you can because you have to pay all of them which Miami just showed you what happens when you have three max contracts and can't afford a decent bench, everyone won't play for peanuts for the chance at a ring.

Bynum was the piece they were using to try to land Howard. No where did I say they should have thrown in Bynum with Gasol and Odom and be left without any bigs that's why I used the word instead.. Wow! What a dumb response which could have been somewhat mitigated if you read or either had a grade schooler read it for you and explain what it meant.

By getting Chris Paul the Lakers would've never traded for Stevs Nash and given away all those picks. So in a way everyone is still hurting and trying to move on from the "basketball reasons" decision, including yourself.

Yes they never would have traded for Steve Nash but just because the CP3 trade was nixed doesn't mean you go out and hurt your organization financially and for the future by getting duped for a 37 year old with a back problem. That was the FO trying to make something happen, they went after a big name, he was a relic and they're still paying for it. We are talking about four pucks for a 37 year old, that's unprecedented.

The Clippers first offer for Paul was denied. They sweetened the deal and landed him. The difference is that the trade with LA was agreed upon, I get it that it was completed. Suppose the Clippers left the discussion table and then instead sent four picks to Dallas to land Jason Kidd. No in forced them to make that trade, it was just a bad trade on them if they did something so ridiculous.

This is wrong.. it started with one move... Stearn nixing CP3 trade, we get him, then get Howard, we get another ring, or two.. and CP3 is still here and we rebuild around him and Howard after Kobe leaves... ONE FREAKING IDIOT nixing a deal... unheard of, unfair, and unprecendded...

I agree 100%! Stearn has single handily crushed the Lakers!

You guys have to let the CP3 thing go. There is no guarantee that he was the key to a championship. Look at what the FO has done after the nixed trade? The Lakers' front office was greedy because they could have sweetened the deal to get CP3 by throwing in Bynum instead of Pau or instead of Lamar. I'm not saying that would have brought CP3 here but LA was given opportunity to put forth a better offer. They pulled away from the table because they truly wanted Howard and knew Bynum was the key to that. Stern hasn't killed the Lakers, the front office has.

Look at the facts! Stern killed the Lakers, and then the front office went into panic mode! Howard deal went sour and Steve Nash never materialized!

The poor decision by the office, stemmed from one move CP3 deal being nixed! All along they wanted Howard and CP3, but they had try something to have Howard stay without Paul. They did and it was a failure, you cannot blame them for trying!

That was a political move by Stern, and bad business!

Signing D'Antoni instead of Phil was an absolute fatal mistake with tsunami-like rippling effects. I think if we got Phil things would be completely different.

Well, If I had to say it though, the inception of this notion of bringing multiple Superstars into one team was the start of the Lakers downfall.

Let's back track a bit further.

Why did the CP3 trade got nixed?

The League nixed the trade because Dan Gilbert pointed out that the "small market" teams wanted an equal playing field and wanted to stop the formation of more "Super Teams".

Why did Dan Gilbert interfered w/ the trade?

Dan Gilbert only pointed out that the trade was in violation of the so called "spirit" of the new CBA. But frankly, the biggest motivation was how Lebron left Cleveland to join Wade and Bosh in Miami.

Why did Lebron leave Cleveland?

Lebron left Cleveland to form a Super Team w/ Wade and Bosh. A team that is hard to beat in a playoff series.

Why did Lebron, Wade, and Bosh form a "super team"?

Because they all saw the immediate, and a seemingly long-lasting success the concept of a "super team" brought to the Celtics when KG, Ray Allen, and Pierce decided on becoming the 1st "super team" of this decade.

In essence, the Lakers really was doomed when the idea "Let's form a Super Team!" become widespread.

Smart management would have attempted to bring a super team here. That's still the play, ultimately. That will likely happen after Kobe retires, since so much money that could go to the super team is now committed to Kobe.

But the Lakers are a perfect location for 3 or 4 really great players to get together, form that superteam, and bring it here. 2 years from now, the year after Kobe's contract is completed, we won't have much of a salary commitment. That's what you need in order to have sufficient money to create that environment. Right now, we don't have the money to lure in a superteam. But we will 2 years from now. Getting a superior coach is paramount, between now and then.

The only fact is Stern nixed the Laker trade that was agreed upon. It's opinion that it killed the Lakers. If the front office went into panic mode then we can't blame anyone but the front office.

Don't get me wrong, I was pissed off that Stern did that. I wanted CP3 as bad as anyone, I didn't want Howard at all but CP3 is legit. I just can't sit back here and blame Stern for the Lakers woes. The Lakers still had their same playoff team after he nixed the trade but they traded Lamar for a trade exception, Stern didn't do that. The Lakers traded for Howard with no guarantee of an extension, Stern didn't do that. The Lakers traded for Nash by giving up four picks, move again Stern didn't do that. The Lakers downfall started when they didn't handle the Lamar Odom crying well and then just shipped him off for the trade exception instead of assets in return. That trade exception unfortunately allowed us to pay Nash to use our Lakers medical staff at 9 million a year.

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I can't stand this super team nonsense and Dan Gilbert, the same guy who complained about the Lakers possibly getting CP3 and then Howard to pair with Kobe is now trying to form one of his own in Cleveland. Personally I feel it would be a mistake for them to trade Wiggins, Bennett and whoever else to land Love and then have three max contracts. They will then not be able to afford to re-sign their younger guys who have some ability. Waiters

Would begone, Thompson would move elsewhere, possibly Varejao as well even though he has been in the league awhile. They'll be stuck signing ring-chasers like Miller and Ray Allen, guys who are just shooters and can't play much defense because of their loss of lateral quickness.

The cba works against teams just being greedy and loading up everyone onto their team and if you do there will be a stiff financial penalty along with smaller penalties that prohibits acquiring anyone else. Like you stated Boston started the downfall of the Lakers because the Lakers just seem to operate on the idea of building a super team. I find that sad because the Lakers actually had a very good nucleus of their own with Kobe, Gasol, Odom and Bynum even though he couldn't stay healthy.

I really hope this front office can move past this acquiring a big star idea and just build a team. Like the movie field of dreams, build it and they will come.

What NBA Champion or even legit contender does not have a "Great player". And yes we all have our opinion on if Melo is "Great". We have to sooner or later get a great player and oh well if we struck out this year, we will keep trying till we do as simply as that. Next year we will wait for the Big fish to tell us no before we make other moves just like this year. We are not the only team that does this. I'm happy we didn't get Melo, but I'm not naive to how good he is.

I wonder how many rings we win with with 4 or 5 second tier players and no star? 2nd tier players are a lot easier to get then a great player, that why we try so hard to get one and so does everyone else.

I agree with you to a degree. However the San Antonio Spurs just won a championship without having a great player. Tim Duncan was great in the past but he isn't anymore but he also allowed other guys to take the lead. Tony Parker is a good player, there isn't any doubting that but would you consider him great? The Spurs played together as a team and it negated any of Lebron's greatness.

Melo may be a great scorer but what else does he do out there? I guess rebounding at the SF spot is definitely above average but those are two things. You compare him to James where James will lock you up, get other's involved a well as score and shoot a GREAT fg%. Kobe use to be really dynamic as well, lock a guy up, get others involved and score like no one else. The Lakers may not have much of a choice but to get second tier guys because stars are harder to land which was the purpose of the CBA and the CBA before it. If the FO keeps operating like this which means they keep swinging for stars while putting cheap players in place to maintain their cap space. That way of doing things can lead to plenty of bad seasons.

with regards to how the Lakers are making their comeback to greatness, I see their plan as this:

Plan A:

part1. Swing for the fences and get that home run in signing a super star.

part2. reload around that star.

Plan B:

(if plan a fails, then rebuild while trying to stay competitive... because there is pressure to do so, being the Lakers and all that that entails)

part1. rebuild as best as you can with the limited draft picks, by giving 2nd chances to guys who have unrealized potential.

part2. stay competitive with just enough vets

Plan A has failed a couple seasons, (a lot of that blame goes to coach choice) but I def see them trying to do the rebuild by giving 2nd chances, and they have kept Jordon Hill and Nick Young from last season, and they are trying to develop what draft picks they have, and purchased a draft pick this year. Of the players they lost, besides Gasol, I only will miss Bazemore (I think if given time to grow he could become a solid bench player) Signing Boozer helps to stay competitive, and Lin is both to stay competitive and a chance to be a rebuild piece. That Houston draft pick is def a rebuild piece or an asset to reload in case Plan A works next off season.

@ Gem, I think you're undervaluing Tony Paker a bit. Maybe I'm suffering a bit from point guard envy but I think he's definitely someone who you can build a franchise around. There has certainly been times where he has carried the Spurs on his back. So I wouldn't say the Spurs don't have any superstars. They just play in a smaller market so ESPN doesn't talk about them all that much (Note how quickly ESPN stopped talking about them winning the Championship. If Lebron won we'd still hear about it).

I'd have to agree with Ray that you need at least one superstar to be a serious contender. Was Melo that star? Maybe maybe not. But you do need one. Every Championship team besides the 2004 Pistons have had superstars on their rosters. You just can't argue against history.

The Lakers need to stop chasing after Stars, that's all what they really need to do. The Lakers way, didn't even revolve around getting superstars. It was all about creating a roster of talented young men and keeping them until it was time to get a great player. That was what LAL Did when they got Lamar Odom, Caron Butler who later became Kwame Brown who then got traded for Pau Gasol.

When Kobe's contract runs out, I am hopeful that the Lakers do it right this time. Just like how San Antonio did it. They built a team around a core group of players, not around Superstars. And They have kept winning for 15-16 years now w/ that model.

[gemfow"]When I said they were trying to be greedy I said that with the whole thing of them wanting Chris and Howard along with Kobe, they weren't content with just two stars"

Why should they be content with just too? The whole point is they weren't being "greedy" they were building a great team, as any great GM would do... and should be able to do without interference from the league... never seen it before, and probably never will again, it was insane, still is... that you think it was just the Lakers being greedy shows you have no logic... or the logic of a 10 year old.. which you maybe.

Gemfow said in one sentence... " No where did I say they should have thrown in Bynum with Gasol and Odom and be left without any bigs"

"The Lakers' front office was greedy because they could have sweetened the deal to get CP3 by throwing in Bynum instead of Pau or instead of Lamar"

The only fact is Stern nixed the Laker trade that was agreed upon. It's opinion that it killed the Lakers. .

Uhhh no... it's pretty much fact, our lineup would have been CP3, Howard, Kobe and MWP and any other shooting guard we had and that would have been a good/great team that would STILL be competing for rings... Howard would have stayed as he had a good PG and was winning... and we could be building around them STILL..... Your delutional.

@ Gem, I think you're undervaluing Tony Paker a bit. .

He's undervaluing the whole team, they have allot of great players, and a few emerging great players, Parker is a GREAT player, undervalued, as is Tim Duncon in his mind I guess, even though he at times dominated stretches of the series... dude is delutional.

First Jeremy Lin, then Boozer, now BYRON SCOTT??!!! C'mon!!! Good thing they took 3 f-ing months to search for THAT!!! Then figure about 15 games from Nash and maybe 40 or so from Kobe. Un f-ing-believable what that jerkkoff Buss is doing to this team. Too bad Jim wasn't the one who croaked. Dr. Jerry Buss has to be rolling in his grave right now. At least he was passionate about winning and keeping the team on top and always in the mix. This piece of sh*t Jim needs a shovel upside his head. All I can say is we're the new Clippers. Lottery picks for a while, and maybe a LONG time if that hunk of sh*t Jim Buss sticks around!! Anybody that thinks this team is better than 35 wins next year is just a hardcore, blinded fan. What a shame what this douchebagg has turned this team into.

3 MONTH SEARCH TO COME UP WITH BYRON SCOTT!!!! WTF IS THAT!!!!!

I really like Tony as a player, I have for a while but when we talk about great point guards I've never put him up there with guys like a Magic, Stockton, Thomas and whoever else. I don't mean to take any credit from Tony at all because he has been the one carrying the Spurs the last couple of seasons with the aging of Duncan and Ginobli but I feel Tony kind showed some wear and tear last season too. Tony didn't even have to be great against the Heat in the finals, sometimes I kept saying they need to bring Mills in but Tony's ankle could have been bothering him. I just feel in 2004 that Detroit and also this season the Spurs showed that if you have a great team vs. great players then you will be an NBA champion. Detroit didn't have any great players imo, they had a great team and they took it to a Lakers squad with two great players in Kobe and Shaq and role players who were too old to do anything about it. After 2004, that let me know then that you can't just have old role guys or cheap role guys and throw them around great players. You need some role guys who can make a difference.

I don't think anyone would argue that a championship team doesn't need good role players. That's certainly not what I'm arguing at all. What I'm arguing is that you need a Super Star to be a serious contender. Super stars are much harder to come by than role player so if you have the opportunity you target them first and fill in the blanks later. Role players are important to the success of a championship club, no doubt, but they are typically easier to come by so if I were a GM I'd focus on getting the cornerstone player first whether it's through free agency or the draft.

He's undervaluing the whole team, they have allot of great players, and a few emerging great players, Parker is a GREAT player, undervalued, as is Tim Duncon in his mind I guess, even though he at times dominated stretches of the series... dude is delutional.

In all fairness to Gem, I don't think he's undervaluing the whole team. I'd say he's undervaluing Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. I'm pretty sure Gemfow understands how great the Spurs role player are.

1) If you're greedy trying to put a lot of big names on the team, it will cost you. You then wouldn't be able to afford any sort of depth and that's what was going on with the Lakers. Building a great team doesn't mean going top-heavy and then have a bench full of vet minimum players.

2) My quote goes right along with the Lakers trade. They were trading Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol. If they took out Gasol and put Bynum in the trade it could have worked or if they took out Odaom and put Bynum in the trade. It was a case of swapping Bynum for either Gasol or Odom, not trading all three.

Uhhh no... it's pretty much fact, our lineup would have been CP3, Howard, Kobe and MWP and any other shooting guard we had and that would have been a good/great team that would STILL be competing for rings... Howard would have stayed as he had a good PG and was winning... and we could be building around them STILL..... Your delutional.

You can't say would have, should have or could have been and fact in the same sentence. A fact is what has actually happened.

The only fact was that Stern nixed the trade. There are no other facts except that the Lakers traded four picks for Nash which in my opinion was one of the worst trades I've ever come across after hindsight. I just thought it was simply a bad trade during the time now it's a ridiculous trade in my opinion.

He's undervaluing the whole team, they have allot of great players, and a few emerging great players, Parker is a GREAT player, undervalued, as is Tim Duncon in his mind I guess, even though he at times dominated stretches of the series... dude is delutional.

Tim Duncan use to be a great player. At this point in his career he is not. I'm talking about right now, not over his career. I feel the same way about Parker. Parker is the best player on the team, possibly second best after Leonard but I wouldn't put them in the class of being great players. It's just my personal opinion. Maybe my definition of a great player is different than yours, it doesn't make me delusional.

In all fairness to Gem, I don't think he's undervaluing the whole team. I'd say he's undervaluing Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. I'm pretty sure Gemfow understands how great the Spurs role player are.

I feel that they are good players. They all have been great players in their respective careers but as they slow down I just don't feel that way anymore. Like I said in a post to magiccontinues, I may have a different definition of a great player vs. a good player or very good player. I know how great these guys were in their days. Tim would absolutely m*rd*r the league when posting up. You really can't go to him in the post anymore with consistency. It happens to all players though, they slow down. They aren't bums but just not as great as they once were.

Every business, large or small may go through a period of retooling. As a rule we don't make our plans available to the general public or even shareholders. If we look at Jerry West and mitch later on. Their block buster deals came seeming from no where, many times it was planting a seed here or there, watering later then harvesting it when the time was right. Most people have never run a business or even managed one. From one that has done both late me assure you I would much rather have jimmy and Mitch Than the Cleveland front office. we are probably one of the most passionate fan bases in sports some ride the bandwagon then leave while others are loyal. Sorry I am having a senior moment, oh yeah, Jack is a great example of loyalty to us and Billy Crystal for LAC. We all have our opinions they are ours and ours alone. If someone doesn't agree so what life goes on and this to shall pass we shall survive or not so what. move on and be happy we can still voice our thoughts.

Personally I love this team's potential. Byron, well IDKH I have always been a fan of his loved him as a player tolerated him as a coach but once again his ours so I shall support him until I don't. Blessings to all of you Preacher out. common guys lighten up only two months to go.

Although my two-team LOS ANGELES approach is usually met with derision around here, can I suggest a way to enjoy the Lakers without getting into blame, what-ifs and cursing David Stern?

Just sit back, enjoy the last two years of the "greatest show in basketball" since MJ -- both live at Staples and on TV -- and don't worry about wins and losses. Forget the past, enjoy the now. After all, this is your final opportunity to see the legendary Kobe Bean Bryant in action. And there might not be another Kobe for a long, long time.

Whatever my disdain for Jim Buss, I must give him props for securing Kobe's last two years.

And if you want to tell your grand kids "I saw Kobe Bryant," this will be your last chance if you haven't already. Put the Kobe show on your bucket list, because the show will soon be closing.

If you approach it from this point of view, this will be a fun ride even if The Mamba is at 80%. Because 80% Kobe is better than 110% of any NBA player since MJ.

No agita, no arguments, no vitriol -- just pure Kobe Bean Bryant! Enjoy!!!

This is wrong.. it started with one move... Stearn nixing CP3 trade, we get him, then get Howard, we get another ring, or two.. and CP3 is still here and we rebuild around him and Howard after Kobe leaves... ONE FREAKING IDIOT nixing a deal... unheard of, unfair, and unprecendded...

Knocked it out the park brotha........

So if we make the playoffs this year, can we please remove this thread?

Which was how the Lakers fell apart, which was my original point... that and that alone was the start of the downfall of this team...started the chain of events that caused us to try other less great players, Nash etc... to rebuild around Kobe... we wouldn't have needed to do any of that without that one nixed deal

It's obvious why Stern rejected the CP3 trade, the NBA wants to make less popular/small market teams a more coveted destination. If Stern let CP3 go to the Lakers, we'd be the best team for years and years and the NBA doesn't want that, they want the other teams to get a chance and make some revenue, which basically means more revenue for the NBA. They are trying to balance the league and it's working.

It's obvious why Stern rejected the CP3 trade, the NBA wants to make less popular/small market teams a more coveted destination. If Stern let CP3 go to the Lakers, we'd be the best team for years and years and the NBA doesn't want that, they want the other teams to get a chance and make some revenue, which basically means more revenue for the NBA. They are trying to balance the league and it's working.

If an NBA owner wants to make a trade for financial reasons, or any other reason, he should be able to...The league will never be "even" as the best players will ALWAYS want to play in the big markets, with the exception of Lebron, who did the honorable thing and went home.. but that's a once in a lifetime thing.

Which was how the Lakers fell apart, which was my original point... that and that alone was the start of the downfall of this team...started the chain of events that caused us to try other less great players, Nash etc... to rebuild around Kobe... we wouldn't have needed to do any of that without that one nixed deal

People just keep assuming Paul and Kobe would have made this match made in heaven andhe would have won so many rings. Both guys are ball dominant and we know Kobe doesn't move without the ball. You guys are assuming g Paul would havebeenhappy playing with Kobe and it would have been happily ever after. Those aren't facts at all.

The downfall of the lakers IMO is when they started going into panic mode after the Paul trade that was vetoed. The was no excuse for things like trading Lamar for a trade exception, going after a relic in Nash and trading for Howard who didn't want to be here and didn't agree to an extension before a trade. Those are what got the Lakers in the trouble they're in. The nix trade just sent our poor management team into a frenzy and they blew it.