The Lakers and the Shape of Things to Come (P. 2)

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kkennon1
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Shepherd wrote:
Well first that's a big IF. And IF it does we can talk then. But no, the point was there is a significant gap between the early pics in a draft. More than one would expect at that level.

Yes and no, it depends on the draft!!

SPQR
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Ray wrote:
I'm glad you know how I will feel in a couple of years. My main overall point was saying I do not think he will ever win the MVP in the league and also ever be a top 15 player in the history of NBA. If doesn't matter if you disagree or not, someone said they thought opposite and I was just giving my side. Saying no way
Ray, As to how you will feel in a few years, I don't know. But I do know this, if Simmons does develop as a scorer, he will force you to change your opinion....

kkennon1
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SPQR wrote:
Ray, As to how you will feel in a few years, I don't know. But I do know this, if Simmons does develop as a scorer, he will force you to change your opinion just as I said. Time will tell whether he does or not. I also wanted to point out that your comments about why Simmons can score now even without a shot were bereft of fact or logic. Which is true. Simmons can score without a shot, not because teams don't try to stop him, they do, because he hurts them, but because he is so big, so....

SPQR
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Kkennon,

I understand how you feel about Simmons. I'll stick to my view. Remember, he's a rookie. I see a rookie when I talk about him. You judge him almost like he's a vet and a finished product sometimes. And he will be rookie of the year. Hes also going to win his first rookie playoff series. Not bad all in all.

As to why I bring up Ball? Go back and look at Rays post where he says defenses will turn Simmons into a Ball, like they haven't been trying all year. So I'm just pointing out why Simmons and Ball are different to rebut that claim.

That's the answer to that.

I wish you were Philly's GM and I was the Lakers. I take him off your hands real quick and we would both be happy. For a while.

userpete1037
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Hey SPQR,

I think they should split the rookie of the year trophy between Simmons and Mitchell like they did Kidd and Hill. What do you think?

kkennon1
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SPQR wrote:
Kkennon,

I understand how you feel about Simmons. I'll stick to my view. Remember, he's a rookie. I see a rookie when I talk about him. You judge him almost like he's a vet and a finished product sometimes. And he will be rookie of the year. He Is also going to win his first rookie playoff series. Not bad all in all.

As to why I bring up Ball? Go back and look at Rays post where he says defenses will turn Simmons into a Ball, like they haven't been trying all year. So I'm just pointing out why Simmons and Ball are different to rebut that claim.

That's the answer to that.

I wish you were Philly's GM and I was the Lakers. I take him off your hands real quick and we would both be happy. For a while.

Same with Ball, remember he's a true rookie !!! And I get that Simmons will always have a physical advantage. Feel like you judge Ball the same way.

And if I was Lakers GM, I'd rather have Embiid!!! Next to Ball and BI.

Shepherd
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If the Lakers rooks and young guys develop well, they'll be a good team. As is (before adding stars, if they do). If Philly youth develops, they'll be a great team. For a long time. Scary good...assuming no major injuries again etc.

SPQR
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Kkennon,

I agree. I said if Ball ever gets a jumper and can score he will end up in the HOF. I have no compunctions about saying that his rookie year. He is special. How his career ends up, his ultimate place in history will be decided on how his jump shot goes.

Pete,

Mitchell is a beast. They were talking about what you said on the radio the other day- co rookie of the year but they said it won't happen. I will be honest with you, I have not seen enough of Mitchell to comment on that. I hate making proclamations about players I haven't seen that much. But based off his production this year and how he plays he looks like he will be much better than advertised before the draft and a long time all star. The got a gem there and if the draft was held over he would rocket up to the top spots, maybe the top spot. I love what he and they are doing to OKC (thought that series is not over by a long shot) but the bad part is I don't see George staying there with knucklehead Westbrook which brings Randle one step closer to leaving if we get Lebron or Leonard and I think we will get one of them too. Blah!!!

And staying with subject of these young players, Simmons became the first, and only, rookie since Magic, 40 years ago, to get a triple double in the playoffs the other night in closing out the Heat.

userpete1037
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SPQR wrote:
Kkennon,

I agree. I said if Ball ever gets a jumper and can score he will end up in the HOF. I have no compunctions about saying that his rookie year. He is special. How his career ends up, his ultimate place in history will be decided on how his jump shot goes.

Pete,

Mitchell is a beast. They were talking about what you said on the radio the other day- co rookie of the year but they said it won't happen. I will be honest with you, I have not seen enough of Mitchell to comment on that. I hate making proclamations about players I haven't seen that much. But based off his production this year and how he plays he looks like he will be much better than advertised before the draft and a long time all star. The got a gem there and if the draft was held over he would rocket up to the top spots, maybe the top spot. I love what he and they are doing to OKC (thought that series is not over by a long shot) but the bad part is I don't see George staying there with knucklehead Westbrook which brings Randle one step closer to leaving if we get Lebron or Leonard and I think we will get one of them too. Blah!!!

And staying with subject of these young players, Simmons became the first, and only, rookie since Magic, 40 years ago, to get a triple double in the playoffs the other night in closing out the Heat.

You're probably right about the ROY but watching both of those young men yesterday had me smh. Me being a Kentucky basketball fan (Miami in college football), I've seen Mitchell exhibit this type of play when he was at Louisville but then Patino would sit him down every time to reel him back in. Of course we know the coach at LSU at the time didn't relinquish the offense to Simmons thus he got fired....lol. Anyway, like what I see from both of them regardless who wins ROY.

kkennon1
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SPQR wrote:
Kkennon,

I agree. I said if Ball ever gets a jumper and can score he will end up in the HOF. I have no compunctions about saying that his rookie year. He is special. How his career ends up, his ultimate place in history will be decided on how his jump shot goes.

Pete,

Mitchell is a beast. They were talking about what you said on the radio the other day- co rookie of the year but they said it won't happen. I will be honest with you, I have not seen enough of Mitchell to comment on that. I hate making proclamations about players I haven't seen that much. But based off his production this year and how he plays he looks like he will be much better than advertised before the draft and a long time all star. The got a gem there and if the draft was held over he would rocket up to the top spots, maybe the top spot. I love what he and they are doing to OKC (thought that series is not over by a long shot) but the bad part is I don't see George staying there with knucklehead Westbrook which brings Randle one step closer to leaving if we get Lebron or Leonard and I think we will get one of them too. Blah!!!

And staying with subject of these young players, Simmons became the first, and only, rookie since Magic, 40 years ago, to get a triple double in the playoffs the other night in closing out the Heat.

Think if we get PG13, could help Randle stay, since they have same agent, maybe get a discount in package deal. Lol

But either way I don't see Randle getting a max offer from Lakers. Think it will be good offer, so it will come down to how much he wants to remain on team.

SPQR Sixers haven't closed out Heat yet, still one more to go !!! But your right, Simmons has been playing great, Embiid coming back makes them very dangerous.

On another note, think AD is and will continue to be best of the young players in league going forward. Imo

Shepherd
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kkennon1 wrote:
Think if we get PG13, could help Randle stay, since they have same agent, maybe get a discount in package deal. Lol

But either way I don't see Randle getting a max offer from Lakers. Think it will be good offer, so it will come down to how much he wants to remain on team.

SPQR Sixers haven't closed out Heat yet, still one more to go !!! But your right, Simmons has been playing great, Embiid coming back makes them very dangerous.

On another note, think AD is and will continue to be best of the young players in league going forward. Imo

You know I had a thought. Isn't it kinda early to offer a 4th year player a max deal? Don't they usually start by getting a pretty decent contract, after their rookie deal finishes, which he did, at close to $5mill avg/yr, and then later with more years they get the biggest bucks? Just seems to me this talk of anyone offering Randle max is premature. He's made himself into a more valuable and better player. But he's certainly not a star. He's a mid-level player afterall, who has no mid range shot, let alone anything from deeper, like Saric or Portis. His QO will be $5.6 mill. He's expected to ultimately get $10-$12mill (same as other comparable players have gotten recently). But not max. Then again, how much is max for a guy going into his 5th year? Isn't there a sliding scale for that sort of thing?

Tempy
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Shepherd wrote:
You know I had a thought. Isn't it kinda early to offer a 4th year player a max deal? Don't they usually start by getting a pretty decent contract, after their rookie deal finishes, which he did, at close to $5mill avg/yr, and then later with more years they get the biggest bucks? Just seems to me this talk of anyone offering Randle max is premature. He's made himself into a more valuable and better player. But he's certainly not a star. He's a mid-level player afterall, who has no mid range shot, let alone anything from deeper, like Saric or Portis. His QO will be $5.6 mill. He's expected to ultimately get $10-$12mill (same as other comparable players have gotten recently). But not max. Then again, how much is max for a guy going into his 5th year? Isn't there a sliding scale for that sort of thing?

In all honesty I think the sliding scale needs changing. Young players should earn more when they are in their prime. Right now if you have been in the league less than 6 years your capped at 25% of the salary cap. Under 10 is 30% and over 10 is 35%.

The best players in the league should earn the most money, period. If a team wants to overpay a player then that's their fault if it doesn't work out. When old aging stars like LBJ and CP3 have the ability to earn more than any other player in the league, there is a problem.

As for Randle, he can get an offer of around $26 or $27 million should a team wish to offer as much. It should be a free market and he should have the ability to earn as much as a team wants to pay him.

SPQR
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userpete1037 wrote:
You're probably right about the ROY but watching both of those young men yesterday had me smh. Me being a Kentucky basketball fan (Miami in college football), I've seen Mitchell exhibit this type of play when he was at Louisville but then Patino would sit him down every time to reel him back in. Of course we know the coach at LSU at the time didn't relinquish the offense to Simmons thus he got fired....lol. Anyway, like what I see from both of them regardless who wins ROY.

Pete,

So you're saying Pitino played Dean Smith to Mitchell's Michael Jordan? Lol.

Since you saw him a lot in college did you think he would be this spectacular in the NBA?

userpete1037
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SPQR wrote:
Pete,

So you're saying Pitino played Dean Smith to Mitchell's Michael Jordan? Lol.

Since you saw him a lot in college did you think he would be this spectacular in the NBA?

Oh no SPQR I can't say I thought he'd be this spectacular in the NBA. Noway but I will say he was making these kind of moves at Louisville. I never could figure out what was Patino's problem sometimes with him. The kid always brought it with high energy.

Oh yeah Patino did just like Dean Smith..lol.

mcbill
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I think before I’d go,after Boogie or DJ I would offer Clint Capela a max deal and force Houston to make the decision to match. His max is $5 million less than the other two in the first year and he offers more upside.

JJCali
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mcbill wrote:
I think before I’d go,after Boogie or DJ I would offer Clint Capela a max deal and force Houston to make the decision to match. His max is $5 million less than the other two in the first year and he offers more upside.

No! Capela ain't that good.

userpete1037
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^^^

Yeah he's trying to get that contract like Whiteside.

Shepherd
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Who solves this issue in the short term? IT? PG13? To me this is a bigger issue than who plays the 5: Besides the obvious fact they are playing against higher quality teams, their shortcomings are arguably more because of their lack of ancillary offensive creators to alleviate the responsibilities of their primary ball-handlers. This may be the one chess piece of the postseason this Lakers’ team as currently constructed simply is not prepared for. The team relied heavily on their pair of 20-year-olds to not only create their own scoring chances but that of their teammates as well. Lonzo Ball was challenged with the primary responsibility to run lead pick and roll duties, something of which he did not extensively run in UCLA. Ball more often modeled a secondary creator on the floor for the Bruins, running off-ball guard actions like cutting and running off screens. Ball’s general lack of rudimentary lead-guard skills coupled with his work in process in-between game would make him one of the more exploitable components of the Lakers’ offense in a playoff series. Despite this, his struggles this season were arguably scheme based as he was used too often as the primary initiator when he could instead have been an ancillary dynamo. This was similarly the case for Brandon Ingram as well, who had the pivotal responsibility this season to do both create for himself and for others as he switched offensive roles mid-season due to Lonzo’s injury. Ingram was much improved with the extra year of reps under his belt, but still ran into problems when attempting to force the issue. His sometimes questionable shot selection mixed with errant passes at times exemplified the youth and lack of upper-echelon ball handlers on the team. Ultimately the roster both Ball and Ingram were a part of this season did....

JJCali
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Well if you have 3 of your 4 best ball handlers out in Thomas, Ball & Ingram, I think any team would struggle there. Maybe we should've kept Clarkson...

Shepherd
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JJCali wrote:
Well if you have 3 of your 4 best ball handlers out in Thomas, Ball & Ingram, I think any team would struggle there. Maybe we should've kept Clarkson...

No, we shouldn't have lol. What's he done in CLE so far? And you're talking about the end of the season issues. Even when they were all playing there were those issues mentioned imo. By virtue of the fact they're so young if nothing else. But also no one is sure of how high their ceiling is. It may not be as high as we hope. And they have their limitation as we know. Offseason I'd be in favor of getting

back Nance for the right price, but pass on Clarky. He plays iso ball, which is just the problem the article discusses. He doens't make his teammates better.

JJCali
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Shepherd wrote:
No, we shouldn't have lol. What's he done in CLE so far? And you're talking about the end of the season issues. Even when they were all playing there were those issues mentioned imo. By virtue of the fact they're so young if nothing else. But also no one is sure of how high their ceiling is. It may not be as high as we hope. And they have their limitation as we know. Offseason I'd be in favor of getting

back Nance for the right price, but pass on Clarky. He plays iso ball, which is just the problem the article discusses. He doens't make his teammates better.

I wouldn't judge anyone that plays with James. Never seen someone have so many players join him that all of a sudden become a shell of themselves. He was good when he was here.

(I'm solely addressing your second sentence)

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
I wouldn't judge anyone that plays with James. Never seen someone have so many players join him that all of a sudden become a shell of themselves. He was good when he was here.

(I'm solely addressing your second sentence)

Think he looked good on a bad team, he's not the only one that went from looking good on bad team ,to looking like crap on a playoff team. That's why I said in past, that some of these players on lakers wouldn't crack starting lineup on good teams.

Shepherd
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kkennon1 wrote:
Think he looked good on a bad team, he's not the only one that went from looking good on bad team ,to looking like crap on a playoff team. That's why I said in past, that some of these players on lakers wouldn't crack starting lineup on good teams.

Yup, esp Ball and BI

kkennon1
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Shepherd wrote:
Yup, esp Ball and BI

userpete1037
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So when Magic put it out there that any one of the core is tradable, I guess he was sending a message to LBJ right?.....lol.

kkennon1
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kkennon1
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Looks like someone's been putting in work!!!

Stay in weight room young fellow!!!

Shepherd
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kkennon1 wrote:

I wonder if they all went back to the room and gave each other massages afterwards LOL. Let's hope the swole arms don't mess up his shot...oh wait...what shot? lol

kkennon1
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Shepherd wrote:
I wonder if they all went back to the room and gave each other massages afterwards LOL. Let's hope the swole arms don't mess up his shot...oh wait...what shot? lol

Think you posted on wrong article, lol!!! That's what you get!!!! Hahaha

userpete1037
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kkennon1 wrote:
Looks like someone's been putting in work!!!

Stay in weight room young fellow!!!

Dam he looks bigger than Gelo.....

Shepherd
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kkennon1 wrote:
Think you posted on wrong article, lol!!! That's what you get!!!! Hahaha

LOL...nope. In reply to your comment bout him having been at the gym, and the pic in your link of Zo with 3 other swole dudes at the beach all posing lol.

Btw that gym stuff really seems to work. I was just thinking I should try it sometime hahahaa.... diabloanifire

kkennon1
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Shepherd wrote:
LOL...nope. In reply to your comment bout him having been at the gym, and the pic in your link of Zo with 3 other swole dudes at the beach all posing lol.

Btw that gym stuff really seems to work. I was just thinking I should try it sometime hahahaa.... diabloanifire

Yeah, but you posted on Luke Walton article I posted. Lol

userpete1037
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Shepherd wrote:
LOL...nope. In reply to your comment bout him having been at the gym, and the pic in your link of Zo with 3 other swole dudes at the beach all posing lol.

Btw that gym stuff really seems to work. I was just thinking I should try it sometime hahahaa.... diabloanifire

Helps you sleep well too....Not that you have a problem sleeping....lol.

Shepherd
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Wife does a better job helping me with that ;-P

userpete1037
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Shepherd wrote:
Wife does a better job helping me with that ;-P

Lol...No doubt.

userpete1037
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With all these rumors and the latest being CP3, I'd sure hate for the FO to trade Lonzo without seeing how he comes back in his 2nd year.

JJCali
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I'm staying fully immersed in my Hope for the best, expect the worst theory. LBJ will come. We'll lose Randle. And we'll set the franchise back YEARS!

lakers52761
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just don't lose ingram

userpete1037
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Did I just see what I thought I saw in the headlines, Lonzo Ball has a torn meniscus!!!!!!!.....WTF.

Shepherd
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https://thebiglead.com/2018/06/29/lonzo ... -meniscus/

Yup...better sign IT lol

userpete1037
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Shepherd wrote:
https://thebiglead.com/2018/06/29/lonzo-ball-torn-meniscus/

Yup...better sign IT lol

Lol....

Shepherd
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I heard he can be had for $8mill. In that case, IF he shows he can come back strong, I'd do it. I like the feisty little bugger. But of course James may disagree. And I assume James opinion will outweigh mine lol.

Shepherd
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One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The Rock? Ughhhh....so freaking Hollyweird. And again, has exactly what to do with basketball? Bring in Kareem, Dr J, Russell, but the ROCK?

This is exactly what's wrong here. The ongoing worship of celebrity. The Lakers won't get PG, coz of another lame Hllwd type pitch. Same way they've lost so many other potential FA's. Smh...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2392 ... re-success

JJCali
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Shepherd wrote:
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The Rock? Ughhhh....so freaking Hollyweird. And again, has exactly what to do with basketball? Bring in Kareem, Dr J, Russell, but the ROCK?

This is exactly what's wrong here. The ongoing worship of celebrity. The Lakers won't get PG, coz of another lame Hllwd type pitch. Same way they've lost so many other potential FA's. Smh...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2392 ... re-success

Saw that video months ago. It was a good motivational speech. Not dumb at all. They brought in multiple, extremely successful people from different industries.

userpete1037
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Shepherd wrote:
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The Rock? Ughhhh....so freaking Hollyweird. And again, has exactly what to do with basketball? Bring in Kareem, Dr J, Russell, but the ROCK?

This is exactly what's wrong here. The ongoing worship of celebrity. The Lakers won't get PG, cuz of another lame Hllwd type pitch. Same way they've lost so many other potential FA's. Smh...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2392 ... re-success

I think they smelled what the Rock was cooking.


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