Is Magic's Plan About to Back Fire?

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suntzu619
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I'm sure many of you heard or read that Melo can or maybe be traded to the Thunder. What does that have to do with us you ask? Suppose Melo ends up in OKC with PG13 and Westbrook, that is a pretty solid team in my opinion, in fact I think they may make it to the WCF. This would probably be enough for PG13 to stay in OKC thus killing every dream that some of us wanted for him to be in LA. At least from what we've been hearing and reading he was pretty much a guarantee to come after next season. The point I'm trying to make is if Magic could not get Derrick Rose, George Hill, or whoever what makes Magic think he can land PG13, LBJ, Cousins, etc? I'm all about the whole youth movement but I also believe we need an established star to get back to greatness. Its pretty obvious I'm about to push the panic button. Please convince me to not push the panic button.


kkennon1
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Hill went with the money, Rose with a chance to go to finals, neither of which Lakers were offering. As far as PG13 , he's already said if OKC makes conference finals or finals, he'd be stupid to leave, and LBJ is not coming here by himself. So I wouldn't get my hopes to high !!!

And if they stick to their high character players on team, Cousins will be out too!!! Lol


MAGICLAKEZ
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Au contraire this might just be a blessing in disguise. Honestly we got ourselves a better, more suitable talent in KCP. He checks all the boxes, addresses multiple needs and fits seamlessly with the current construction of the team. Hill is almost over the hill...lol. He has never really excited me even when he was in SA. He was deemed expendable by Pops for a reason.

PG has really done nothing with the Pacers (in a weaker Conf) to write home about. If he's really keen coming out here than more power to him and to Magic. If not then we just dodged a huge bullet(or bomb) and probably saved our livestock in the process.

Rose would have been a huge blunder and luckily he chose the CAVs. We owe him big time. I'm relieved that we didn't end up signing him but at the same time that relief has been slightly displaced with the fact that they even considered him in the first place.

LBJ is 33 I'm on the fence about him tbh. He is partly responsible for the mess with Cavs along with Dolan VER 2.0(Gilbert). The guys we should really target like Klay and Greek Freak and others have not hit free agency yet. Maybe we would find the right target at the opportune time, with the young guns primed to compete.

You have no product on the floor right now to use as a sell pitch. That is the only thing which sells. Everything else is academic.


IhatetheCeltics
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Not trading for George was the right move regardless of what he does in FA next summer. Indy wasn't going to trade him here unless we included the #2 pick or Ingram. I wouldn't give up either of those assets for him. Most important thing is that the team shows improvement, that's what will determine their fortunes with free agents. If they show significant improvement and don't land the max guys they were targeting, that's fine with me. Just continue to build and add supporting pieces. Frankly, I'm just excited that for the first time in 4 years I can actually root for the team to win. No pick next year anyways, so none of this tanking talk. That was exhausting.


MAGICLAKEZ
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
Not trading for George was the right move regardless of what he does in FA next summer. Indy wasn't going to trade him here unless we included the #2 pick or Ingram. I wouldn't give up either of those assets for him. Most important thing is that the team shows improvement, that's what will determine their fortunes with free agents. If they show significant improvement and don't land the max guys they were targeting, that's fine with me. Just continue to build and add supporting pieces. Frankly, I'm just excited that for the first time in 4 years I can actually root for the team to win. No pick next year anyways, so none of this tanking talk. That was exhausting.

Goes without saying you root to win. Fed up with those losing seasons and the fact that winning and showing incremental improvements is what would eventually attract FA's. But most importantly, I don't want those Bastids from Boston to get our pick.


TERRY-TEAGLE
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OKC , still won't win anything with Melo ... 2 ball-stoppers in him and Westbrook .

And if they do get Melo , they would have to trade a lot of key guys .

George is coming here... and Magic already knows this


kkennon1
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
Au contraire this might just be a blessing in disguise. Honestly we got ourselves a better, more suitable talent in KCP. He checks all the boxes, addresses multiple needs and fits seamlessly with the current construction of the team. Hill is almost over the hill...lol. He has never really excited me even when he was in SA. He was deemed expendable by Pops for a reason.

PG has really done nothing with the Pacers (in a weaker Conf) to write home about. If he's really keen coming out here than more power to him and to Magic. If not then we just dodged a huge bullet(or bomb) and probably saved our livestock in the process.

Rose would have been a huge blunder and luckily he chose the CAVs. We owe him big time. I'm relieved that we didn't end up signing him but at the same time that relief has been slightly displaced with the fact that they even considered him in the first place.

LBJ is 33 I'm on the fence about him tbh. He is partly responsible for the mess with Cavs along with Dolan VER 2.0(Gilbert). The guys we should really target like Klay and Greek Freak and others have not hit free agency yet. Maybe we would find the right target at the opportune time, with the young guns primed to compete.

You have no product on the floor right now to use as a sell pitch. That is the only thing which sells. Everything else is academic.

Greek Freak would be great, but he just signed a new contract this past season. Lol


JJCali
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Haven't heard this. And not excited about spending on max players anyways.


userpete1037
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Let the 2017-2018 season play out first.....no need to panic Sun.....lol.


magic42157
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If Melo is the answer, you are asking the wrong question. Him going to OKC will have no effect on PG...it might actually even help get him here.


magic42157
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Just saw this report of Melo to OKC was broke by Bill Simmons. This is the same guy who thinks the Lakers are getting Boogie, Wall, LeBron, and PG13 next year. This guy is a horse's a$$ (and not just because he is a Celtics fan).


MAGICLAKEZ
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kkennon1 wrote:
Greek Freak would be great, but he just signed a new contract this past season. Lol

Oh fugg..lol


userpete1037
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magic42157 wrote:
Just saw this report of Melo to OKC was broke by Bill Simmons. This is the same guy who thinks the Lakers are getting Boogie, Wall, LeBron, and PG13 next year. This guy is a horse's a$$ (and not just because he is a Celtics fan).

LMAO!!!!!.....I know right.


kkennon1
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Tempy
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kkennon1 wrote:

Thought it was more than that.


Ray
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Tempy wrote:
Thought it was more than that.

That number doesn't include us moving Clarkson's 12mil or Deng's 18 mil. We can make as much room as we need to next year for whatever way our FO is forced to go based off if any top tier talent want to join us.


Tempy
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Ray wrote:
That number doesn't include us moving Clarkson's 12mil or Deng's 18 mil. We can make as much room as we need to next year for whatever way our FO is forced to go based off if any top tier talent want to join us.

All well and good in theory but if not enough stars want to come the franchise is no further forward. I don't understand the hype around PG13, it's not a position of need if the FO are adamant about Ingram being off limits.


lake24show
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Ok so there is a possibility of pulling off a Miami Heat offseason next season...If we traded Clarkson and Deng with maybe Hart and a second rounder to somebody that would give us close to 80 million in cap space. We then convince Boogie Cousins, Lebron and George all to come over to LA for 25 Mil each. We then have approximately 5 mil left on cap space to fill out our bench Shooting guard spot and then use the room exception of 4.3 mil for our backup PG spot and then fill out the 3rd string with vet minimums...people that want to win a championships. Our starting lineup is Lonzo, Ingram, George, Lebron, Cousins!! then bench would be Zubac, Nance, Kuzma, and then fill out the rest with the left over salary money and room exception


kkennon1
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Tempy wrote:
All well and good in theory but if not enough stars want to come the franchise is no further forward. I don't understand the hype around PG13, it's not a position of need if the FO are adamant about Ingram being off limits.

Ingram can play more positions than SF. He's best games stat wise have been at sg so far anyways.


IhatetheCeltics
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lake24show wrote:
Ok so there is a possibility of pulling off a Miami Heat offseason next season...If we traded Clarkson and Deng with maybe Hart and a second rounder to somebody that would give us close to 80 million in cap space. We then convince Boogie Cousins, Lebron and George all to come over to LA for 25 Mil each. We then have approximately 5 mil left on cap space to fill out our bench Shooting guard spot and then use the room exception of 4.3 mil for our backup PG spot and then fill out the 3rd string with vet minimums...people that want to win a championships. Our starting lineup is Lonzo, Ingram, George, Lebron, Cousins!! then bench would be Zubac, Nance, Kuzma, and then fill out the rest with the left over salary money and room exception

Cousins doesn't fit into how they want to play. Don't see the point in going after him, especially since they said "high character" is an important attribute for any player. I think if this was the previous regime they would throw their dollars at anybody. But I don't see that being the case with this new regime. The guy is toxic, there's a reason Sacramento got very little for him at the deadline.


MAGICLAKEZ
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
Cousins doesn't fit into how they want to play. Don't see the point in going after him, especially since they said "high character" is an important attribute for any player. I think if this was the previous regime they would throw their dollars at anybody. But I don't see that being the case with this new regime. The guy is toxic, there's a reason Sacramento got very little for him at the deadline.

That's actually quite relieving to hear as far as Cousins is concerned.

However they did want Rondo so that kinda contradicts their high character standards which they are trying to institute. Not a knock on the talent level of both Cousins and Rondo, but they just don't fit into their perceived philosophies.

I'm just hoping they go with the flow and don't force things. So far they are on course.....except for a couple of hiccups which has been exhaustively discussed on other threads. Lol.


Tempy
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
That's actually quite relieving to hear as far as Cousins is concerned.

However they did want Rondo so that kinda contradicts their high character standards which they are trying to institute. Not a knock on the talent level of both Cousins and Rondo, but they just don't fit into their perceived philosophies.

I'm just hoping they go with the flow and don't force things. So far they are on course.....except for a couple of hiccups which has been exhaustively discussed on other threads. Lol.

KCP is suspended the first few games because of a DUI. High character standards my a@@.


Tempy
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kkennon1 wrote:
Ingram can play more positions than SF. He's best games stat wise have been at sg so far anyways.

Yes because of his lack of strength to play against elite Sf's. Maybe he ends up being a sg but I don't see it happening.


mcbill
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kkennon1 wrote:
Ingram can play more positions than SF. He's best games stat wise have been at shooting guard so far anyways.

Do you have the numbers to back that up? I suspect it to be true but I haven't been able to locate the stats.


kkennon1
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mcbill wrote:
Do you have the numbers to back that up? I suspect it to be true but I haven't been able to locate the stats.

Heard them say it on spectrum sportsnet. When they were talking about PG13 coming here, and how that would effect Ingram. Also remember coach K saying before he was drafted that he thought his best fit would be at guard in league. Duke had him listed as guard/ forward coming into college.


kkennon1
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Tempy wrote:
KCP is suspended the first few games because of a DUI. High character standards my a@@.

Lol, talent always wins over character, unless character is screwing team up on the court or in locker room.


JJCali
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
Cousins doesn't fit into how they want to play. Don't see the point in going after him, especially since they said "high character" is an important attribute for any player. I think if this was the previous regime they would throw their dollars at anybody. But I don't see that being the case with this new regime. The guy is toxic, there's a reason Sacramento got very little for him at the deadline.

Really? This regime seems far more infatuated with stars imo.


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mcbill wrote:
Do you have the numbers to back that up? I suspect it to be true but I haven't been able to locate the stats.

Wow, no offense, but asking that question was a repped post? lol


Tempy
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kkennon1 wrote:
Lol, talent always wins over character, unless character is screwing team up on the court or in locker room.

Completely agree but the fo talk like politicians. Just like Mitch used to. Be consistent with things.


mcbill
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Shepherd wrote:
Wow, no offense, but asking that question was a repped post? lol

Probably an accident. I don't get many.


Shepherd
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Tempy wrote:
Yes because of his lack of strength to play against elite Sf's. Maybe he ends up being a sg but I don't see it happening.

I'll get crucified for saying this I know, but if PG could have come here for Ingram alone, I'd have done that in a second. It sounds more like the Indy FO showed the Lakers the finger. Otherwise who wouldn't have done that deal? For the pick no way. But for Ingy and filler (maybe Clarky if that's what it took)? All day. Roll the dice. Considering who we picked up since, in Pope and Ball, and the other promising rooks? Kuzma etc? All damn day long. Then you look for another top FA next summer and you're in business. They are really taking the harder road with not being willing to trade Ingy. His future in uncertain, at least to me less certain than Magic and other's think. To me he is not KD but more like Prince. So he'll be very good, but as has been said with his slim physique he will always have a hard time against larger more elite SF's. Same is true if they move him to the 2. Time will tell of course. But anyways, I'd have done that in a second. So it couldn't have been that easy.

As for whether or not PG comes next offseason. Man a lot of variables can come into play there. I think he'll be pursued for sure. But I don't imagine it's a slam dunk he comes here now. But, he could. I just hope they have a contingency plan.

And unlike others, I think with Kuzma and Nance we can afford to let Randle go and save space.


Shepherd
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mcbill wrote:
Probably an accident. I don't get many.

Can't be an accident. And I'm glad you got it. But that was an odd one


userpete1037
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Lakers signed Vander Blue to a partial guaranteed contract. Guess something is better than nothing.


IhatetheCeltics
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JJCali wrote:
Really? This regime seems far more infatuated with stars imo.

Both regimes want stars. Mitch and Jim did offer Randle and Russell for Cousins at the deadline. They did save all that cap space to go after Aldridge, LeBron, Carmelo, etc. But I think what you'll see is a mixture of fit and talent. So, this guy is really talented, and he also fits into how we want to play. Weigh talent and fit, and if the talent is so great then you just overlook the fit. But I don't believe that is the case with Cousins, and that's why I don't believe they'll go hard after him in free agency. I could be proven wrong, but that's my gut feeling.


mcbill
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Shepherd wrote:
I'll get crucified for saying this I know, but if PG could have come here for Ingram alone, I'd have done that in a second. It sounds more like the Indy FO showed the Lakers the finger. Otherwise who wouldn't have done that deal? For the pick no way. But for Ingy and filler (maybe Clarky if that's what it took)? All day. Roll the dice. Considering who we picked up since, in Pope and Ball, and the other promising rooks? Kuzma etc? All damn day long. Then you look for another top FA next summer and you're in business. They are really taking the harder road with not being willing to trade Ingy. His future in uncertain, at least to me less certain than Magic and other's think. To me he is not KD but more like Prince. So he'll be very good, but as has been said with his slim physique he will always have a hard time against larger more elite SF's. Same is true if they move him to the 2. Time will tell of course. But anyways, I'd have done that in a second. So it couldn't have been that easy.

As for whether or not PG comes next offseason. Man a lot of variables can come into play there. I think he'll be pursued for sure. But I don't imagine it's a slam dunk he comes here now. But, he could. I just hope they have a contingency plan.

And unlike others, I think with Kuzma and Nance we can afford to let Randle go and save space.

I'm not going to be the one to nail you to the cross. What you are saying makes a lot of sense, especially when you factor i the ability to extend his current contract and the financial flexibility we would have next summer. I'm really looking forward to watching BI next season. I think he will probably double his scoring output and ramp up his defense, but he won't be at PG's level for a few more years. I think this was the summer to turn out young assets into championship pieces if we are going to. Imagine if we were able to get PG for BI, Black and Brewer and then signed KCP. Would we trade Ball and Clarky for Kyrie and then sign Ian Clark? IMO that's a top four team in the west with room for growth from Randle and KCP and the bench.


kkennon1
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mcbill wrote:
I'm not going to be the one to nail you to the cross. What you are saying makes a lot of sense, especially when you factor i the ability to extend his current contract and the financial flexibility we would have next summer. I'm really looking forward to watching BI next season. I think he will probably double his scoring output and ramp up his defense, but he won't be at PG's level for a few more years. I think this was the summer to turn out young assets into championship pieces if we are going to. Imagine if we were able to get PG for BI, Black and Brewer and then signed KCP. Would we trade Ball and Clarky for Kyrie and then sign Ian Clark? IMO that's a top four team in the west with room for growth from Randle and KCP and the bench.

PG13 is not a superstar, at least not an elite star that's going to lead your team passed 1st or 2nd rd...imo

I'm not sold on Kyrie either, what is he without LBJ or another elite star on team with him ?? Didn't do much when he was star and 1st option. I wouldn't trade Ball for anything, his playing style will attract FA's. And I'd rather see what Ingram becomes , more than I would want him trader for PG13. Want to see PG13 next to Ingram and Ball, looks like FO feels the same..imo


MAGICLAKEZ
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I would not trade Ball for Durant or Curry let alone Kyrie.

Randle, Clarkson and the great Deng is what I would part with for any superstar. Lmao!!!


kkennon1
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
I would not trade Ball for Durant or Curry let alone Kyrie.

Randle, Clarkson and the great Deng is what I would part with for any superstar. Lmao!!!

2nd that !!!! Lol


mcbill
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For the record, I want to see all of our current players retained and developed and for improvement to come organically through growth. I definitely don't like the idea of paying another aging superstar almost $40 million a year at the end of their career. I think PG is supremely talented, but his leadership leaves much to be desired and he plays the same position as our most promising prospect. The problem is I don't see the front office or a majority of the fan base having the patience to wait the 3-4 years that it will take for these guys to realize their potential. Regardless of how I feel, they are going to make moves to expedite the process. I think if they are going to do it anyway, this was the summer to do it.


Shepherd
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kkennon1 wrote:
PG13 is not a superstar, at least not an elite star that's going to lead your team passed 1st or 2nd rd...imo

I'm not sold on Kyrie either, what is he without LBJ or another elite star on team with him ?? Didn't do much when he was star and 1st option. I wouldn't trade Ball for anything, his playing style will attract FA's. And I'd rather see what Ingram becomes , more than I would want him trader for PG13. Want to see PG13 next to Ingram and Ball, looks like FO feels the same..imo

Kyrie is a tough one. Coz he really ratcheted up his game to another level during that Champ run last season. And he's been stone cold killa since. And a tough guy to guard. No one saw that coming considering his underwhelming first few seasons. is he all that now? Only way to know is see him on another team. What I think is he thinks he can be the next Westbrook. Is he/can he be? No idea. But someone will pay to find out. I wouldn't trade Ball for him at this point either. And the idea of having Ball and Irving on the floor together if they made a trade for him seems dubious. Magic seems to be going pure PG on us, and then build from there. Hard to disagree with that POV. Looks what Nash did all those years. And Ball is taller.


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userpete1037 wrote:
Lakers signed Vander Blue to a partial guaranteed contract. Guess something is better than nothing.

I think that is very significant. The Lakers don't need Blue as they stand given KCP, Clarkson, Hart and Ingram and it's more than a training camp invite given the partial guarantee. Perhaps they want him available, and not taken by another team, if: Clarkson get's traded along with Randle when LeBron brings his annoying drama to LA. Clearly they anticipate a vacancy at the shooting guard position....

I also think that Magic is clearing out all the furniture from Mitch's house... He disses Clarkson and builds up Randle as trade bait. In other words, Magic is a raging egomaniac who refuses to work with anyone he did not select (except Ingram because then the agenda would be obvious). Ahhhh, now D-Russ understands his comments... No, I don't like Magic. Never did off the court despite recognizing that he's putting a team together quickly that will be a contender. I also think that Clarkson, Randle, Russell, perhaps Zu and George would be a contender too!


kkennon1
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Skyeword wrote:
I think that is very significant. The Lakers don't need Blue as they stand given KCP, Clarkson, Hart and Ingram and it's more than a training camp invite given the partial guarantee. Perhaps they want him available, and not taken by another team, if: Clarkson get's traded along with Randle when LeBron brings his annoying drama to LA. Clearly they anticipate a vacancy at the shooting guard position....

I also think that Magic is clearing out all the furniture from Mitch's house... He disses Clarkson and builds up Randle as trade bait. In other words, Magic is a raging egomaniac who refuses to work with anyone he did not select (except Ingram because then the agenda would be obvious). Ahhhh, now D-Russ understands his comments... No, I don't like Magic. Never did off the court despite recognizing that he's putting a team together quickly that will be a contender. I also think that Clarkson, Randle, Russell, perhaps Zu and George would be a contender too!

Read that Blue's contract might only be 50,000 , same as 2 way player contract. So they can keep him on Gleague team if he doesn't make roster.


Skyeword
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kkennon1 wrote:
Read that Blue's contract might only be 50,000 , same as 2 way player contract. So they can keep him on Gleague team if he doesn't make roster.

I hear ya' but still why? Given Zu's catastrophic collapse and mushy physique and Bryant's near irrelevance as a backup for now, a center is needed and there's no room for Blue. He's like 6th string despite his abilities.


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Skyeword wrote:
I hear ya' but still why? Given Zu's catastrophic collapse and mushy physique and Bryant's near irrelevance as a backup for now, a center is needed and there's no room for Blue. He's like 6th string despite his abilities.

And is why I think the NBA needs to do 2 things. Add another man to the roster so it can be 16. And during a playoff push allow them to bring in 3 extra players for the run, a la MLB.

Paying an extra body or 2, even if they don't get much playing time, would help in practices, spelling off starters to help prevent injury etc. And also keep the top dawgs from sucking ALL the money. Make the team spread it a round a little bit more.


userpete1037
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Skyeword wrote:
I think that is very significant. The Lakers don't need Blue as they stand given KCP, Clarkson, Hart and Ingram and it's more than a training camp invite given the partial guarantee. Perhaps they want him available, and not taken by another team, if: Clarkson get's traded along with Randle when LeBron brings his annoying drama to LA. Clearly they anticipate a vacancy at the shooting guard position....

I also think that Magic is clearing out all the furniture from Mitch's house... He disses Clarkson and builds up Randle as trade bait. In other words, Magic is a raging egomaniac who refuses to work with anyone he did not select (except Ingram because then the agenda would be obvious). Ahhhh, now D-Russ understands his comments... No, I don't like Magic. Never did off the court despite recognizing that he's putting a team together quickly that will be a contender. I also think that Clarkson, Randle, Russell, perhaps Zu and George would be a contender too!

Too bad Skye. I love Magic.


Skyeword
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userpete1037 wrote:
Too bad Skye. I love Magic.

That's cool. My issue with him is the same issue I have with anyone who is two faced. Pay attention to his words. He is deliberately deceptive. Look at what he said about D'Angelo and then what he said later to name a recent example. This is a quality that I do not like in general. It indicates a person who is not willing to assume public responsibility for their actions. It seems prevalent with people who are the most wealthy. They say one thing to their 'fan's and their facial expression and attitude changes when they are off camera aka 'two-faced'.


Skyeword
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Shepherd wrote:
And is why I think the NBA needs to do 2 things. Add another man to the roster so it can be 16. And during a playoff push allow them to bring in 3 extra players for the run, a la MLB.

Paying an extra body or 2, even if they don't get much playing time, would help in practices, spelling off starters to help prevent injury etc. And also keep the top dawgs from sucking ALL the money. Make the team spread it a round a little bit more.

I'm not seeing how 16 on the roster would make a big difference but the 3 extra players during the playoffs would be interesting. You'd think that the starters and team dynamic would flow right through to the end but we often see injuries and people who step up like Iggy did two years ago as well injuries due to the added intensity.


JJCali
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8216

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votes: 18

Skyeword wrote:
I hear ya' but still why? Given Zu's catastrophic collapse and mushy physique and Bryant's near irrelevance as a backup for now, a center is needed and there's no room for Blue. He's like 6th string despite his abilities.

I don't think they are counting Zubac's mediocre summer league as a catastrophic collapse.


Skyeword
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 7515
Location: Atlanta
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votes: 67

JJCali wrote:
I don't think they are counting Zubac's mediocre summer league as a catastrophic collapse.

Yeah, that's probably true and either do I. I am sure it raised concerns. If he brings the same in Training Camp, then they'll worry. I assume they told him to spend the rest of the Summer doing 2 a days and get his butt in shape if he wants PT.


userpete1037
LNS HOF Gold
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Posts: 18904
Location: Kobe, Kalifornia
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votes: 18

Skyeword wrote:
That's cool. My issue with him is the same issue I have with anyone who is two faced. Pay attention to his words. He is deliberately deceptive. Look at what he said about D'Angelo and then what he said later to name a recent example. This is a quality that I do not like in general. It indicates a person who is not willing to assume public responsibility for their actions. It seems prevalent with people who are the most wealthy. They say one thing to their 'fan's and their facial expression and attitude changes when they are off camera aka 'two-faced'.

I'm not going to go that deep. I just simply love Magic...you're entitled though.


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