Magic Wants a Star, I Say Be Careful and Patient

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SPQR
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The other day Magic Johnson said the first order of business in LA Land is to get a star on the Lakers. He said we've always had one so we need to get one. I understand Magic's desire. It is nice to have stars, we almost always have had one, or more, and man they sure help you win rings, right? But one also has to be a realist and smart when taking a look at where your team is and what fork in the road you should traverse to get to where you ultimately want to be. I have expressed concerns about....

IhatetheCeltics
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First there was the report on how no player on the lakers is untouchable, now Magic is saying they want to bring in a star. I think a lot of this is just lip service. He's throwing fans a bone and giving them what they want to hear, while also warning the young players that they better put in some serious work this offseason. George and Butler are good, but they aren't LeBron, Steph, Durant. They aren't those generational talents who are going to carry you from third worst to the playoffs. Magic and Pelinka are too smart not to know this, which is why I think a lot of this is smoke and mirrors.

kkennon1
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userpete1037
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Just sit back and let the Magic man do his thing....lol. Right now he's just stirring the pot. As I've said before, we'll know more once the lottery picks are unveiled.

SPQR
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
First there was the report on how no player on the lakers is untouchable, now Magic is saying they want to bring in a star. I think a lot of this is just lip service. He's throwing fans a bone and giving them what they want to hear, while also warning the young players that they better put in some serious work this offseason. George and Butler are good, but they aren't LeBron, Steph, Durant. They aren't those generational talents who are going to carry you from third worst to the playoffs. Magic and Pelinka are too smart not to know this, which is why I think a lot of this is smoke and mirrors.

Celtic,

That is a very salient point that George and Butler are not top tier stars who can carry a team on their backs to a title. Another reason I would not trade our young talent to acquire either.

I hope very much that as you say, Magic understands that fact well.

JJCali
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I have no faith in Magic. From listening to him on television the past several years, I have not thought of him as a wise man when discussing players. We've discussed it on this site many times. He's made several boneheaded opinions. Magic the player, I'll take all day every day. Magic the basketball mind? That's another story. I hope that he proves me wrong. But I have more hope that Pelinka ends up being a good GM than Magic a good decision maker. If Magic takes the reigns and does not empower Pelinka, I fear that we will be making several trades in the future that will get us players such as PG, but nowhere near a title.

FrankBecerra
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Yeah Magic loved Byron Scott as the coach, so he kind of lost me there

steven18
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I definitely agree with you SPQR, the smart approach would be waiting until 2018 to sign PG (or any other top FA) without giving up any of the young core. But like you mentioned, there is a sense of urgency that Magic/Pelinka must be feeling right now to improve the team in the immediate future. Like others on here, i trust that Magic/Pelinka will not mortgage the future just to win now, i look at what they have done so far (trading Lou for a pick, getting rid of Huertas/Calderon and bringing in Ennis/Nwaba) and see how much they value the youth on this team. Only way i see them trading for PG or Butler (this year) is if we keep our pick (which is looking like a long shot at this point). If we don't keep it, the only moves i see them making is moving either Deng/Mozgov or bringing in some cheap rotation players on 1 year deals. Aside from that, i fully expect to see the same team next year with a few minor changes, unless of course, we are fortunate enough to keep our pick. If that happens to be the case, trading one or two of the core (or the pick itself) should seriously be considered (in my opinion). I completely understand the concern for Magic, his history of tweets and claims on players/coaches is alarming to some extent, but the fact that he brought in a guy like Pelinka who i and many are very high on, gives me complete confidence in his ability to surround himself with the best people to help him make the best decisions for the franchise. You mentioned how you knew little about Pelinka, well here's a bit of his history to fill you in Graduated Law School ( as one of the....

userpete1037
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kkennon1 wrote:

That's an understatement IMO. He might as well come out and say it....lol. Now whether it happens or not, we shall see.

LALA-LandShow24
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kkennon1 wrote:

If this is true and PG is/will force a trade and the team he chooses is the Lakers, Bird will have to take what the Lakers offer or lose PG for nothing at the end of next season. I think Bird would make the deal now, rather than lose PG for nothing. I think 2 of the core would get traded in this scenario but maybe they could sneak in Deng's contract as well. LOL.

I know there may be other interested teams (aka the Celtics) in PG but they would not give up much with out assurance PG resigns with them. And if he truly wants to come to LA then its not worth it to any other team to trade for PG.

suntzu619
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LALA-LandShow24 wrote:
If this is true and PG is/will force a trade and the team he chooses is the Lakers, Bird will have to take what the Lakers offer or lose PG for nothing at the end of next season. I think Bird would make the deal now, rather than lose PG for nothing. I think 2 of the core would get traded in this scenario but maybe they could sneak in Deng's contract as well. LOL.

I know there may be other interested teams (aka the Celtics) in PG but they would not give up much with out assurance PG resigns with them. And if he truly wants to come to LA then its not worth it to any other team to trade for PG.

Hopefully it wouldn't have to be 2 of the young core. I can only hope it gets to point where PG will hold the Pacers hostage to where Larry would have no choice but to take whatever Magic and Co. offer.

LALA-LandShow24
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suntzu619 wrote:
Hopefully it wouldn't have to be 2 of the young core. I can only hope it gets to point where PG will hold the Pacers hostage to where Larry would have no choice but to take whatever Magic and Co. offer.

I think it would have to be 2. The question would be whether we can sneak in one of the Deng/Mozgov contracts in the deal. To me Ingram and Zubac are untouchable. Next to them i would like to keep Nance and D-Lo but don't see them as untouchable. Randle (some here think he will be a star - I'm not convinced, yet) I would be ok with trading and Clarkson as well. I actually like Clarkson better than D-Lo, but I think D-Lo with further developing his (already good) passing skill and shooting, has a higher ceiling than Clarkson.

suntzu619
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LALA-LandShow24 wrote:
I think it would have to be 2. The question would be whether we can sneak in one of the Deng/Mozgov contracts in the deal. To me Ingram and Zubac are untouchable. Next to them i would like to keep Nance and D-Lo but don't see them as untouchable. Randle (some here think he will be a star - I'm not convinced, yet) I would be ok with trading and Clarkson as well. I actually like Clarkson better than D-Lo, but I think D-Lo with further developing his (already good) passing skill and shooting, has a higher ceiling than Clarkson.

I agree. In all honesty I really like the young core. I was never a believer in Clarkson so I really wouldn't mind giving him up. Outside of Zubac and Ingram they can ask for whoever. Adding Mozgov or Deng would take a miracle. We can only hope that it goes down like this. I read somewhere, sorry can't find the source, that we may have to take one of there not too friendly contracts as well. The article I read added Monta Ellis to the mix as an example.

hogball
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Magic is right, Lakers wants to progress in its competitive standing, then it really need a go-to-guy which is very reliable and this means a Superstar. Randle and Clarkson are good assets which are very acceptable for a trade in Superstar market. It is up to Magic an Pelinka to maximize the value of this trade in favor of the Lakers.

userpete1037
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Right now, I'm kinda disappointed in PG13 because of what I saw last night. Now granted, he doesn't have the horses LBJ have but with a 26pt lead, your star player doesn't let a 26pt lead slide.......

kkennon1
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hogball wrote:
Magic is right, Lakers wants to progress in its competitive standing, then it really need a go-to-guy which is very reliable and this means a Superstar. Randle and Clarkson are good assets which are very acceptable for a trade in Superstar market. It is up to Magic an Pelinka to maximize the value of this trade in favor of the Lakers.

But what true superstar is available ???

kkennon1
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userpete1037 wrote:
Right now, I'm kinda disappointed in PG13 because of what I saw last night. Now granted, he doesn't have the horses LBJ have but with a 26pt lead, your star player doesn't let a 26pt lead slide.......

Can't do it on his own, teammates have to step up. Same thing happened to Kobe against Boston.

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kkennon1 wrote:
Can't do it on his own, teammates have to step up. Same thing happened to Kobe against Boston.

It'd be different IMO, if he tried to stop the bleeding when he initially saw it slipping. He did nothing or okay, he along with Nate McMillan did nothing. I mean he even got on the podium and said he should've demanded the ball more but he didn't. No excuse for that.

MAP1
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Is Paul George really a super Star? I am not sure ..... thoughts?

IhatetheCeltics
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MAP1 wrote:
Is Paul George really a super Star? I am not sure ..... thoughts?

I don't think he is, but John Ireland and Steve Mason swear that he is. Superstar to me means LeBron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden. He's not on that level. But he's the next tier down. I just don't see the point in giving up major assets for a guy like that. He's not leading them to the playoffs next year...

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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
I don't think he is, but John Ireland and Steve Mason swear that he is. Superstar to me means LeBron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden. He's not on that level. But he's the next tier down. I just don't see the point in giving up major assets for a guy like that. He's not leading them to the playoffs next year...

His a star, don't know about superstar. But my problem with it is, if you trade for him, are you going to be able to build around him with Deng and Mozgov contracts. Only way I'm giving up young player or players is if one of those bad contracts goes with them.

kkennon1
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Well this pretty much says it. Lol

userpete1037
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
I don't think he is, but John Ireland and Steve Mason swear that he is. Superstar to me means LeBron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden. He's not on that level. But he's the next tier down. I just don't see the point in giving up major assets for a guy like that. He's not leading them to the playoffs next year...

He's a star not a SUPERSTAR....lol.

userpete1037
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kkennon1 wrote:
Well this pretty much says it. Lol

The visual was hilarious!!!!!...lol....OMG!!!

JJCali
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MAP1 wrote:
Is Paul George really a super Star? I am not sure ..... thoughts?

Yeah. He's legit!

JJCali
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
I don't think he is, but John Ireland and Steve Mason swear that he is. Superstar to me means LeBron, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden. He's not on that level. But he's the next tier down. I just don't see the point in giving up major assets for a guy like that. He's not leading them to the playoffs next year...

He's on the same level as Westbrook & Harden to me. He might not have put up their numbers this year, but he's usually much more efficient than those 2 and is a way better defender than them. Another way to put it, I don't think any of them will ever win a title as the best player on their team... unless it's one stacked team!

But I agree he's a level below Curry, LBJ & Durant.

JJCali
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kkennon1 wrote:
His a star, don't know about superstar. But my problem with it is, if you trade for him, are you going to be able to build around him with Deng and Mozgov contracts. Only way I'm giving up young player or players is if one of those bad contracts goes with them.

How about IF we were to draft Ball, would you be willing to trade Clarkson, Ingram & Mozgov for George? That's probably the only way I'd trade for him? IF we ended up with Ball. Then we could have a starting 5 of Ball, Russell, George, Randle & Zubac. We wouldn't be contenders next season by any stretch, but we would drastically improve. It would suck if Ingram became better than George though! He's much younger too. I'd lean towards not trading for him. But something like that would make it bearable.

JJCali
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userpete1037 wrote:
He's a star not a SUPERSTAR....lol.

I'd say he's a superstar. He's a top 10 player in the league. He can take over a game on any given night. He's not an all-time great, but I think he's currently a superstar.

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
How about IF we were to draft Ball, would you be willing to trade Clarkson, Ingram & Mozgov for George? That's probably the only way I'd trade for him? IF we ended up with Ball. Then we could have a starting 5 of Ball, Russell, George, Randle & Zubac. We wouldn't be contenders next season by any stretch, but we would drastically improve. It would suck if Ingram became better than George though! He's much younger too. I'd lean towards not trading for him. But something like that would make it bearable.

Make that Clarkson, Randle and Mozgov or pick, Clarkson Deng or Mozgov , welcome Mr. PG!!! But rather wait till he's a FA.

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
He's on the same level as Westbrook & Harden to me. He might not have put up their numbers this year, but he's usually much more efficient than those 2 and is a way better defender than them. Another way to put it, I don't think any of them will ever win a title as the best player on their team... unless it's one stacked team!

But I agree he's a level below Curry, LBJ & Durant.

I'd put LBJ as an elite superstar, think Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, PG are all on same level. You take Curry off GS and put Westbrook or Harden in, and they wouldn't miss a beat, switch PG with Durant the same. LBJ is only currently playing player that ever lead a sub par team to finals, 1st time in Cleveland...imo

kkennon1
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Agree, Deng is better at 4. Hope he gets his wish, just on another team.

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kkennon1 wrote:
Agree, Deng is better at 4. Hope he gets his wish, just on another team.

I feel like he would thrive in Minny as a 4....i'd love it if we traded Deng for the expiring contracts of Pekovic and Hill...win-win in my eyes

userpete1037
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JJCali wrote:
I'd say he's a superstar. He's a top 10 player in the league. He can take over a game on any given night. He's not an all-time great, but I think he's currently a superstar.

Nope don't agree. But I'd welcome him on the squad as long as we don't have to mortgage the farm.

kkennon1
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userpete1037 wrote:
Nope don't agree. But I'd welcome him on the squad as long as we don't have to mortgage the farm.

Yeah, think this article is pretty spot on.

Think he's a veteran star.

userpete1037
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^^^

Let those ping pongs bounce baby!!!!

JJCali
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kkennon1 wrote:
I'd put LBJ as an elite superstar, think Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, PG are all on same level. You take Curry off GS and put Westbrook or Harden in, and they wouldn't miss a beat, switch PG with Durant the same. LBJ is only currently playing player that ever lead a sub par team to finals, 1st time in Cleveland...imo

Ok, so let me break this down in parts. A. You're overrating LBJ, but what else in new lol! B. Completely disagree with your Curry assessment. There's not player that would replace him on that team. C. I completely agree with you PG replacing Durant, but that's because that was already a great team that won a title without Durant. It doesn't mean PG is on the same level as Durant. LBJ got swept in the finals, so let's not give him too much credit. Kobe won multiple titles with no other superstars and Pau the only other all-star player. LBJ has done less with more than any player in NBA history. If Kobe had the same teammates as LBJ his entire career he'd have at least 7 titles, not 3.

I think the elite superstars in the game are Curry, Durant & LBJ. Still superstars, but a level below them are Westbrook, Harden, A. Davis, & George. Chris Paul is a superstar on the down slope. Close to being superstars are Lilliard, DMC, Wall, Love, Thompson, Kyrie...

and watch out youngsters would be: Giannis, KAT, Wiggins, Booker...

that's my opinion.

might have forgotten someone in the last 2 tiers. Feel free to add.

JJCali
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userpete1037 wrote:
Nope don't agree. But I'd welcome him on the squad as long as we don't have to mortgage the farm.

Do you disagree with the entire opinion, or just the superstar label?

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
Ok, so let me break this down in parts. A. You're overrating LBJ, but what else in new lol! B. Completely disagree with your Curry assessment. There's not player that would replace him on that team. C. I completely agree with you PG replacing Durant, but that's because that was already a great team that won a title without Durant. It doesn't mean PG is on the same level as Durant. LBJ got swept in the finals, so let's not give him too much credit. Kobe won multiple titles with no other superstars and Pau the only other all-star player. LBJ has done less with more than any player in NBA history. If Kobe had the same teammates as LBJ his entire career he'd have at least 7 titles, not 3.

I think the elite superstars in the game are Curry, Durant & LBJ. Still superstars, but a level below them are Westbrook, Harden, A. Davis, & George. Chris Paul is a superstar on the down slope. Close to being superstars are Lilliard, DMC, Wall, Love, Thompson, Kyrie...

and watch out youngsters would be: Giannis, KAT, Wiggins, Booker...

that's my opinion.

might have forgotten someone in the last 2 tiers. Feel free to add.

Guess we'll never know about Curry, but yes! He can score, but gets exposed on defense. Still think you put Westbrook or Harden in there, they will still be best team in league. That team is more about the system and buying in, much like the Spurs. As far as LBJ, I said currently playing players, but as usual people bring up Kobe when they feel like he's being threatened. Guess I see why now that LBJ is passing most of his records. ( Just messing with you) Lmao!!!! By the way, looking at those playoffs records LBJ just passed Kobe in, makes me really see how great MJ was !!! LBJ and Kobe weren't even close with more playoff games played.

As far as LBJ getting swept in the final, yes he did, on a team that wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs without him on it. And yes Kobe wouldn't have gotten them there either, that team was a lottery team after LBJ left. But I do agree Kobe might have won one more title than LBJ with that Miami team. But JJ you still have to take in account LBJ makes his teammates better more than Kobe ever has. But also don't think you compare Kobe and LBJ as far as how many times they've won titles or how many times they've gotten there. If you're telling me Kobe over LBJ with both in their primes, where they need a superstar to step up to win game, than I'll take Kobe. If your putting Kobe on a team that needs more team play to win, than I'll take LBJ.

And by the way, Kobe has 5 titles, not 3.

Also think you forgot about Leonard. He's become a beast!!!

But I'll go back to where this whole thing started out, is PG worth gutting your team for ? Is he a superstar that going to make this team a real contender ? I say No, wait for him in FA.

userpete1037
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JJCali wrote:
Do you disagree with the entire opinion, or just the superstar label?

Superstar label....

kkennon1
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userpete1037 wrote:
Superstar label....

After getting swept, I'm not at all impressed with PG as far as giving up multiple players for him.

Side note, think Turner is going to be good.

kkennon1
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JJCali
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userpete1037 wrote:
Superstar label....

That's fair, Pete. You just have a more narrow view of who you call a "superstar".

JJCali
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kkennon1 wrote:
Guess we'll never know about Curry, but yes! He can score, but gets exposed on defense. Still think you put Westbrook or Harden in there, they will still be best team in league. That team is more about the system and buying in, much like the Spurs. As far as LBJ, I said currently playing players, but as usual people bring up Kobe when they feel like he's being threatened. Guess I see why now that LBJ is passing most of his records. ( Just messing with you) Lmao!!!! By the way, looking at those playoffs records LBJ just passed Kobe in, makes me really see how great MJ was !!! LBJ and Kobe weren't even close with more playoff games played.

As far as LBJ getting swept in the final, yes he did, on a team that wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs without him on it. And yes Kobe wouldn't have gotten them there either, that team was a lottery team after LBJ left. But I do agree Kobe might have won one more title than LBJ with that Miami team. But JJ you still have to take in account LBJ makes his teammates better more than Kobe ever has. But also don't think you compare Kobe and LBJ as far as how many times they've won titles or how many times they've gotten there. If you're telling me Kobe over LBJ with both in their primes, where they need a superstar to step up to win game, than I'll take Kobe.

But I'll go back to where this whole thing started out, is PG worth gutting your team for? Is he a superstar that going to make this team a real contender? I say No, wait for him in FA.

I absolutely forgot Leonard! Thank you.

That Cavs team was the favorite every year in the east! Every offseason, the critics said "now he has the right team to win." And when he finally left all of a sudden people acted like he didn't have any help. Smh. Well no, compared to the ridiculously stacked teams he's made sure he's been on since, no, he didn't have help then. Lmao.

I'm not going to justify the rest of what you said lol. We'll never agree on some things. Thanks for pointing out Leonard though. I'd have him right there with Westbrook & Harden.

And I didn't say Kobe had three titles, LBJ does. Not sure if you were just messing with me there.

JJCali
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kkennon1 wrote:
Guess we'll never know about Curry, but yes! He can score, but gets exposed on defense. Still think you put Westbrook or Harden in there, they will still be best team in league. That team is more about the system and buying in, much like the Spurs. As far as LBJ, I said currently playing players, but as usual people bring up Kobe when they feel like he's being threatened. Guess I see why now that LBJ is passing most of his records. ( Just messing with you) Lmao!!!!

As far as LBJ getting swept in the final, yes he did, on a team that wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs without him on it. And yes Kobe wouldn't have gotten them there either, that team was a lottery team after LBJ left. But I do agree Kobe might have won one more title than LBJ with that Miami team. But JJ you still have to take in account LBJ makes his teammates better more than Kobe ever has. But also don't think you compare Kobe and LBJ as far as how many times they've won titles or how many times they've gotten there. If you're telling me Kobe over LBJ with both in their primes, where they need a superstar to step up to win game, than I'll take Kobe. If your putting Kobe on a team that needs more team play to win, than I'll take LBJ.

And by the way, Kobe has 5 titles, not 3.

Also think you forgot about Leonard. He's become a beast!!!

But I'll go back to where this whole thing started out, is PG worth gutting your team for? Is he a superstar that going to make this team a real contender? I say No, wait for him in FA.

There's not a single player in the league that would make this team a contender right now.

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
There's not a single player in the league that would make this team a contender right now.

Nope!!! Going to take awhile. Would rather see how young players continue to develop.

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
I absolutely forgot Leonard! Thank you.

That Cavs team was the favorite every year in the east! Every offseason, the critics said "now he has the right team to win." And when he finally left all of a sudden people acted like he didn't have any help. Smh. Well no, compared to the ridiculously stacked teams he's made sure he's been on since, no, he didn't have help then. Lmao.

I'm not going to justify the rest of what you said lol. We'll never agree on some things. Thanks for pointing out Leonard though. I'd have him right there with Westbrook & Harden.

And I didn't say Kobe had three titles, LBJ does. Not sure if you were just messing with me there.

They were favorite because of LBJ, same team, same players without LBJ the next year went to worst team in league and drafted Kyrie 1st in draft. So how much help was really there!!! Just sayin!!! Lol

userpete1037
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JJCali wrote:
That's fair, Pete. You just have a more narrow view of who you call a "superstar".

Yep and it just got more narrow after this series....lol. But again, I'd take him for the right "Price". I just don't want the F.O. to focus solely on him neglecting other potential future Lakers in the process.

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If PG is hell bent on being a Laker... why mortgage the future for him. I would trade only 2 assets for PG if we were able to include the Deng or Mozgov contract and I would not want to trade our top 3 pick.. something like Randle, Deng, Houston pick for PG

I know a lopsided trade in the Lakers favor is unrealistic...but it's also unrealistic for Bird to think he will get a king's ransom for a player that will eventually leave. Look what Sac had to settle for Boogie.

If you can't get PG this summer... just wait til the deadline when the price will drop further or FA 2018

userpete1037
votes: 18
LNS HOF Platinum
Posts: 20326
Location: Kobe, Kalifornia
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^^^

I'm with you bruh...

JJCali
votes: 22
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8544

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kkennon1 wrote:
Nope!!! Going to take awhile. Would rather see how young players continue to develop.

I agree! I'm fine with no trades happening.


Options Quick Reply: RE: Magic Wants a Star, I Say Be Careful and Patient
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