Does GS Losing Sour the Walton Hiring to You?

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IhatetheCeltics
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Interested in hearing what people have to say about this. There have been proponents and critics of Golden State's style of play. Some say that small ball style doesn't work in the long run, others say that any system predicated on ball movement & player movement is great. Considering Luke plans to bring a more fast paced style of play similar to what the Warriors run, does this make you question the hire? Or do we just look at the list of head coaches who were assistants on losing teams (Phil, etc) and say it isn't that simple? To me, the Warriors losing doesn't mean much for the Walton hire, but I want to hear different perspectives.


JJCali
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I don't see how it would make any difference.


kkennon1
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Doesn't affect the way I feel about Luke at all. Still looking forward to him taking over. One thing though, real superstars win championships, and hopefully we can attract one or two here in the next few years.

Also don't really think it makes a difference right now, if it's Luke or someone else coaching team. Until they get talent here, or develop it. Than I do except a lot of winning, no matter who's coaching.


SPQR
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Celtics,

It doesn't sour the hiring as such for me. But I did say at the time the Lakers should have had a real search. I still don't understand why they didn't. There was no rush to hire Luke. He wanted this job and wasn't going to take any other till the Lakers post was filled. The FO was negligent in their search in my view. But being negligent has become their modus operandi has it not?

I will sound this cautionary note:

Because Golden State won the title last year and had the 73 win season this year, teams will try to copy them by trying to build shooting teams.

That's how it works in sports. Teams try to copy success.

But remember this, the only team that lived and died by the three to win the title was last years Warriors. And by circumstance and injury, they had a very easy road to the finals. And I suspect I'm not the only one here who has this funny feeling that if Cleveland was healthy last year, they would have won that finals series.

So if Luke and the Lakers plan to try replicate Golden State and build this three point shooting team to win the title..................

They might want to look at basketball history and reconsider.


IhatetheCeltics
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SPQR, agree. I think it's fine if he takes some of the motion concepts, I think there is a lot of good stuff there. But it really annoyed me how reliant GS was on the 3 ball. There were times when Klay had wide open layups, but he would pass them up to pull it back to the 3 pt line. Just made me throw my hands up in the air. I guess it helps that at least right now, there aren't a ton of 3 pt shooters on the team to begin with...


userpete1037
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Nope not for me. Time for him to come on back now and get to brass taxes!!!!! Make sure the F.O. don't pull some sideways ish on Thursday.


Tempy
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SPQR wrote:
Celtics,

It doesn't sour the hiring as such for me. But I did say at the time the Lakers should have had a real search. I still don't understand why they didn't. There was no rush to hire Luke. He wanted this job and wasn't going to take any other till the Lakers post was filled. The FO was negligent in their search in my view. But being negligent has become their modus operandi has it not?

I will sound this cautionary note:

Because Golden State won the title last year and had the 73 win season this year, teams will try to copy them by trying to build shooting teams.

That's how it works in sports. Teams try to copy success.

But remember this, the only team that lived and died by the three to win the title was last years Warriors. And by circumstance and injury, they had a very easy road to the finals. And I suspect I'm not the only one here who has this funny feeling that if Cleveland was healthy last year, they would have won that finals series.

So if Luke and the Lakers plan to try replicate Golden State and build this three point shooting team to win the title..................

They might want to look at basketball history and reconsider.

Well in all fairness the cavs are a team that shoots a lot of 3's too.


AChad92
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Not one bit. They lost to Lebron James, one of the greatest to ever walk the floor.

Walton is perfect for developing our guys and his system compliments their games. Warriors just tried getting too flashy too often. With all the behind the back passes that ended up turnovers and the horrible pull up threes. If they added more penetration into their arsenal they'd get better shots.


MAP1
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No to many factors conflicted with GSW winning tonight! Also game 5 was a game changer......

I think Walton will do well.


gemfow
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I don't think any differently just because GS lost. GS's biggest issue IMO is a glaring weakness at the center position offensively. Cleveland was able to switch on all the screens because GS didn't have an inside presence to captalize on a small on big switch. Also, GS would just settle for threes instead of driving into the middle of the defense. GS did nothing but hurt themselves by not taking it into the paint more.

Also, Cleveland played small ball this whole series. It's just that Cleveland's small lineup was still bigger than GS's small lineup.

I don't mind LA playing a smaller lineup but I still believe it's best to have a center. When Orlando had Dwight and played well, they played small ball. Dwight was in the middle but everyone else was small.

On another note, I have been one person who has been a big advocate for going after Barnes and Ezeli. I stopped the Barnes talk after we were winners of the second overall pick. I don't want Ezeli on this team either. One play that pissed me off tonight was when he had a clear lane to the basket he went and pump faked on a shorter Tristan Thompson instead of just rising over him to either get a foul or dunk or layup over him.


lakerdudeinindy
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Gem....you nailed it bro...with Ezeli and Barnes. Both are strong players with enough strength to draw fouls and both played like tall versions of Steph Curry. Both were disturbing and Ezeli has shown he has a VERY low BB IQ. Barnes is the new Wesley Johnson, Wesley Johnson 2.0. This guy was pulling up for mid-range jumpers instead of driving hard to the hoop and drawing fouls. He clearly had lanes to drive and didn't and the Cavs just said shoot it....we dare you and he kept firing his broke J to a point he was REALLY ineffective.

Ezeli was embarrassing....the first plays that came to him and he jacked several close shots to the rim and that's why Bogut remains the starter, because Ezeli cannot be trusted to play when it matters, so the Lakers going after him would be a disaster. I remember when Mark Jackson was the coach, there was something going around that he "picked" on Ezeli and everyone felt bad for him. I guess I see why, he seen that Ezeli was not growing as a player and he was exposed.

Barnes is going to overpaid by someone, but I would LOVE to see teams take a stand and not overpay this kid. He has not grown and if he WAS a featured player in an offense a team would be EXTREMELY disappointed with him in big games.

Walton should be fine, but I hope he finds some skilled inside players to compliment what we have.


SPQR
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Tempy wrote:
Well in all fairness the cavs are a team that shoots a lot of 3's too.

Tempy,

You are right. they are a proficient 3 point shooting team.

But they don't live or die by the 3 like Golden State does. They can and are willing to win other ways.

I will give a couple of interesting stats from last nights game.

Half of Golden States shots taken in game seven were threes! Half! That is amazing. What makes it even more amazing is how many times you watched players who had open lanes to the basket or could have moved up for a much better shot at a two but they threw up the threes anyway.

That team literally plays to live or die with the three.

Last night the, in Golden State, Cleveland shot 25 free throws. GS had 13. That was because Cleveland was much more aggressive in the paint and attacking inside, while GS was chucking up the threes.

Curry in the post game press conference was talking about a three on one break where instead of taking it in shot a three. He said it was a bad choice. He followed that up by saying the settled too many times in the series for three point shots instead of attacking and getting into the paint. He's right. That's really all they want to do and I'm not down with my team having that mentality. I swear sometimes you think they would rather shoot a three than take a layup.

I wonder if GS will rethink things to a degree. They may want to develop a bit better inside game and attack the basket more. If they make the finals next year, barring injury, Cleveland will be waiting.

Under todays rules, yeah, you need to be able to shoot the three but I am not sold that a live or die three point shooting team is the way to go. I would not want the Lakers under Luke to attempt it.

I want balance. I hope Luke feels the same.


Gameface
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They say you learn more from a loss than a win. Luke has the perspective of both. Ditto on comments on Barnes & Ezeli. Barnes settled for mid range and 3's, missing most that led to Cavs fast breaks. Ezeli's dumb foul on Lebron's 3, smh. Cavs took advantage of switching on D by GSW. Need a shot blocker if switching.


lakerdudeinindy
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Gameface wrote:
They say you learn more from a loss than a win. Luke has the perspective of both. Ditto on comments on Barnes & Ezeli. Barnes settled for mid range and 3's, missing most that led to Cavs fast breaks. Ezeli's dumb foul on Lebron's 3, smh. Cavs took advantage of switching on D by GSW. Need a shot blocker if switching.

Ezeli has shown for a few years that he is not ready to start and has back-up written all over him. He is athletic enough to change games, but does not have the BB IQ to better. He has had plenty of opportunities to take the starting spot from Bogut, but he hasn't and there is also the fact that he is injury prone. Too much for any team looking for a starting big.


Ray
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I wish GSW lost ot OKC so Luke could of came over then, he has a lot of work to do and the sooner the better. Our young guys are in the gym just waiting for him to come over and help push them towards what they need to be doing for next year.


SPQR
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There was also something else on the defensive end that bothered me about State's coaching.

In those last three games Cleveland was getting the switches they wanted from State. And they were eating State up because of it. Now Kerr had three games to make changes there and never did.

And it makes me wonder, did Luke recommend changes but Kerr refused? Or did Luke go blindly along that suicidal path just like his head coach?

That series was not Kerr's finest hour. It would be interesting to know what Luke thought, what he suggested, if anything, since he will be our coach.


Tempy
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SPQR wrote:
Tempy,

You are right. they are a proficient 3 point shooting team.

But they don't live or die by the 3 like Golden State does. They can and are willing to win other ways.

I will give a couple of interesting stats from last nights game.

Half of Golden States shots taken in game seven were threes! Half! That is amazing. What makes it even more amazing is how many times you watched players who had open lanes to the basket or could have moved up for a much better shot at a two but they threw up the threes anyway.

That team literally plays to live or die with the three.

Last night the, in Golden State, Cleveland shot 25 free throws. GS had 13. That was because Cleveland was much more aggressive in the paint and attacking inside, while GS was chucking up the threes.

Curry in the post game press conference was talking about a three on one break where instead of taking it in shot a three. He said it was a bad choice. He followed that up by saying the settled too many times in the series for three point shots instead of attacking and getting into the paint. He's right. That's really all they want to do and I'm not down with my team having that mentality. I swear sometimes you think they would rather shoot a three than take a layup.

Under today's rules, yeah, you need to be able to shoot the three but I am not sold that a live or die three point shooting team is the way to go. I would not want the Lakers under Luke to attempt it.

I want balance. I hope Luke feels the same.

Golden state shot 32.4 3's a game, the cavs shot 30.2 through the post season.

In the regular season it was 31.6 for the Warriors and 29.6 for the cavs.

But as you said, they have absolutely no balance. Once a team can focus their defence like they can in the playoffs the Warriors don't really have a plan B. That is why they lost as many games post season as they did in the regular season.

Having a player who is unstoppable at the rim is still the way to score, but there aren't any players of that ilk that can also play D.

Today's centers are one way players, they are either great defensively or offensively not both. Which is why the league transitioned to shooting the 3 point with such regularity. It's the next best way to score.

Shooting 3s is fine when you have an elite defensive efficiency and are great at rebounding. But when your shots are not falling and one of the other 2 areas is being exposed, you are going to lose.

Which is what most of the salty people around here are not understanding, they would rather blame the refs than admit that the Warriors were not shooting well, they were being exposed defensively with the P&R on Curry and they were not rebounding. They really missed Bogut.

I love watching the Warriors, the ball movement is a spectacle to behold. I would love to see the Lakers playing that way, but again with balance. I'm all for taking less mid range jump shots when it's more efficient to shoot a 3. But without balance, it's a fine line to walk.


SPQR
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Tempy,

Yes. There are some nice things to take from golden states offense. The ball movement, the spacing, the team play.

There are also pitfalls that were exposed not only this year but in last year's finals.

You can't be as one dimensional as they are on offense, just obsessed with three point shooting, even if you have a Curry and Thompson.

Hopefully Luke understands those lessons as he begins his tenure here.


userpete1037
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SPQR wrote:
Tempy,

Yes. There are some nice things to take from golden states offense. The ball movement, the spacing, the team play.

There are also pitfalls that were exposed not only this year but in last year's finals.

You can't be as one dimensional as they are on offense, just obsessed with three point shooting, even if you have a Curry and Thompson.

Hopefully Luke understands those lessons as he begins his tenure here.

It also doesn't help them that Steph goes out there all loosey goosey throwing bad passes, behind the back, etc. He needs to really clean that up.


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