Lakers All in on Durant and I Don't Want It. (P. 2)

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JJCali
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gemfow wrote:
I have been on the fence in regards to Durant possibly coming to LA. He will be 29 I believe pretty soon. That means in three years he will possibly start to decline but the type of player he is, he can still score pretty well in his later years because he can drive, shoot and make plays for others. He usually has a height advantage which will also pay dividends for him in later years. I also feel that Durant can mesh with this team as already constructed. Durant is quite different than Kobe....


mcbill
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gemfow wrote:
That Bender kid looks like he could be a lot like Pau Gasol. I've seen some video of him and I like what I saw, he's a little skinny right now but he has length, can pass, can finish and has good athleticism.

That's the same comparison I made a couple of months ago. He seems a bit more athletic at the same age with a better outside shot. Very highly advanced for his age. I don't think he will have a problem adding 25 pounds of muscle. The biggest issue I see with him is the buyout on his contract not kicking in for a couple of years.


gemfow
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JJCali wrote:
Well I would hope the top 3 for us would be Simmons, Ingram and Brown, but you wouldn't trade someone like Brown or Bender for a young SF?
. Who is a SF out there that's worth it? I might do it for Barnes since he's only 24. I wouldn't just trade it for anyone.


JJCali
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gemfow wrote:
. Who is a SF out there that's worth it? I might do it for Barnes since he's only 24. I wouldn't just trade it for anyone.
I don't think anyone on here is saying trade it for just anyone. But it should never be "untouchable". What about for someone like Greek Freak, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon, Justice Winslow, Jimmy Butler or Stanley Johnson for examples? Maybe we would value some of those guys a little higher than Brown, and maybe those teams would value going a different direction with the third pick than what they already have.


kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
I don't think anyone on here is saying trade it for just anyone. But it should never be "untouchable". What about for someone like Greek Freak, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon, Justice Winslow, Jimmy Butler or Stanley Johnson for examples? Maybe we would value some of those guys a little higher than Brown, and maybe those teams would value going a different direction with the third pick than what they already have.

Yes Jimmy Butler please!!! Already read that scouts have Brown ranked lower than Stanley Johnson and Winslow in comparison. Parker and Gordon would be great, but than what do you do about Randle? They're both PFs.

And you already know how I feel about Freak. Lol

To get him with 3rd pick would be highway robbery!!!


mcbill
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Antetonkonmpo is basically untouchable according to the Bucks. I would trade the third pick for Butler, Middleton(if they threw in their pick) or possibly Winslow. If Detroit liked what they saw in Bender and envisioned him being a good fit next to Drummond and Harris they could offer Stanley Johnson, but I don't know if I'd do that deal.

One name nobody mentioned, and I'm sure it's because of his injuries, is Michael Kidd-Gilcrest. If Charlotte has to spend money to keep Batum and Jefferson, they might be looking to replace MKG with a cheaper option. His defensive intensity is exactly what we need.


gemfow
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JJCali wrote:
I don't think anyone on here is saying trade it for just anyone. But it should never be "untouchable". What about for someone like Greek Freak, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon, Justice Winslow, Jimmy Butler or Stanley Johnson for examples? Maybe we would value some of those guys a little higher than Brown, and maybe those teams would value going a different direction with the third pick than what they already have.
I know that they aren't saying trade it for anyone, however, they are saying they would look to trade it. I've taken that as actively looking to move that pick to get someone.

The people that you've mentioned are guys I never considered because that's not realistic IMO. Of course I'd trade it if I could acquire Giannis Antetokounmpo or Jimmy Butler, that's not a realistic scenario because those two guys aren't going anywhere. Stanley Johnson could happen if Van Gundy wants a shooter like Hield that badly in Detroit but that's most likely not going to happen in a realistic world. I can't think of any realistic scenario that would warrant the trading of that pick unless someone requests a trade or a team can't afford to keep a restricted free agent. I'd do it for Harrison Barnes but GS should be able to afford to retain him since the cap is going up.


Shepherd
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I don't think the FO has any other viable plan, other than what they've started, to gather young talent. However if we get Simmons as everyone seems to want, ok we have an NCAA team at that point. You think we can turn basically 5 rookies into a top flight NBA team? Without adding a Durant or Westbrook or whoever? A no-veteran team? While I agree peppering the team with veterans has not worked out well the past few years, from Boozer to fill in your oldster here. But they didn't take on any peaking vets. Just washed up old role players. Who were by and large already done. While I get that LA is a youth obsession city, and that notion exists all over this city, younger is better, it is palpable to say the least. Based on the fear all the narcissists who run and mostly occupy this place have of aging themselves. I don't agree it's a very good idea. Forgetting about basketball for a moment, A) millennials are hopeless and hapless, heck of a generation to leave the world to. Just imagine what their kids will be like. B) the sense of entitlement most pple have already in this city is spiraling out of control with the youngsters, who after all learn fro the oldsters, who were bad enough themselves. C) the descending levels of maturity among everyone, here, but esp the young (has any previous generation harped on as much in song after song representing their generation about how great they are and how wonderful it is to be young like them etc? It's really pathetic. Imagine when they get older, they're gonna be a train wreck) is very troubling. I wouldn't want to let them raise a puppy, let alone a kid, who they....


Tempy
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Shepherd wrote:
I don't think the FO has any other viable plan, other than what they've started, to gather young talent. However if we get Simmons as everyone seems to want, ok we have an NCAA team at that point. You think we can turn basically 5 rookies into a top flight NBA team? Without adding a Durant or Westbrook or whoever? A no-veteran team? Forgetting about basketball for a moment, A) millennials are hopeless and hapless, heck of a generation to leave the world to. Just imagine what their kids will be like. B) the sense of entitlement most pple have already in this city is spiraling out of control with the youngsters, who after all learn fro the oldsters, who were bad enough themselves. C) the descending levels of maturity among everyone, here, but esp the young is very troubling. I wouldn't want to let them raise a puppy, let alone a kid, who they will of course cause to turn out even worse than they are. So to my point, imagine the egos of a team of everyone being under 23 will have? Imagine that locker room? Esp without a heck of a good leader/coach. If we're going to have ALL young players, then we really do need an NCAA cross over coach who can relate.

In fact we will likely still be one of the worst, so do we go after yet another lotto pick? Remind you of anyone? Sacramento for example? 7 years in a row of lottery picks...are they a top team yet? Not even close. Philly, another example, Minny another, NO another. IMO if we strike out in FA again this summer, we'll be doomed to "do the tank" for years to come.

The accrual of young talent is vital in the modern NBA where luxury tax teams are heavily penalized. Yes they will be a young team but I fail to see how that's a bad thing. With the right coach and veteran players that can actually lead and teach the young players the right things, without being critical and patronizing, the young core could develop leaps and bounds. As someone stated in another thread, when the vets let Nick Young become an influence on the young core, of course you are heading for trouble.

I understand your thoughts and concerns on the youth of today, but that's what my grandpa said about my dad's generation, what my dad says about my generation, and what I say about today's generation. Let's not forget who voted for reform regarding discipline and the striking of children in teaching them right from wrong. It wasn't the millennial generation.

Anyways back to your basketball points, the teams you relate to the current Lakers, the kings, 76ers, the wolves, NO, they are all terrible places for top tier free agents. That is why they are consistently poor teams. To rebuild a team needs the draft, free agents and quality trades. Fortunately for the Lakers, they are still an enticing place to come play. When was the last time any of the teams listed signed the current 6th man of the year?

The FO have no choice but to make progress, the pick has to be conveyed at some point, the chances of keeping it this year and next are extremely low, then in 2018 it is unrestricted. If they don't keep it this year then they owe the Magic a 1st rounder too. So either way, continuing with the tank makes very little sense.

With Kobe gone the FO will be under extreme pressure not only from fans but TWC too. If change is not sought from within, the external pressure will ensure it eventually is.


kkennon1
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Tempy wrote:
The accrual of young talent is vital in the modern NBA where luxury tax teams are heavily penalized. Yes they will be a young team but I fail to see how that's a bad thing. With the right coach and veteran players that can actually lead and teach the young players the right things, without being critical and patronizing, the young core could develop leaps and bounds. As someone stated in another thread, when the vets let Nick Young become an influence on the young core, of course you are heading for trouble.

I understand your thoughts and concerns on the youth of today, but that's what my grandpa said about my dad's generation, what my dad says about my generation, and what I say about today's generation. Let's not forget who voted for reform regarding discipline and the striking of children in teaching them right from wrong. It wasn't the millennial generation.

Anyways back to your basketball points, the teams you relate to the current Lakers, the kings, 76ers, the wolves, NO, they are all terrible places for top tier free agents. That is why they are consistently poor teams. To rebuild a team needs the draft, free agents and quality trades. Fortunately for the Lakers, they are still an enticing place to come play. When was the last time any of the teams listed signed the current 6th man of the year?

The FO have no choice but to make progress, the pick has to be conveyed at some point, the chances of keeping it this year and next are extremely low, then in 2018 it is unrestricted. If they don't keep it this year then they owe the Magic a 1st rounder too. So either way, continuing with the tank makes very little sense.

Exactly Tempy totally agree, but I also believe as some of these young teams get better, like the Wolves, you might see some upper level FA'S go there. But with right coach and system, and improvement for young core, LA will always be a preferred destination.


kerby720
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Tempy wrote:
The accrual of young talent is vital in the modern NBA where luxury tax teams are heavily penalized. Yes they will be a young team but I fail to see how that's a bad thing. With the right coach and veteran players that can actually lead and teach the young players the right things, without being critical and patronizing, the young core could develop leaps and bounds. As someone stated in another thread, when the vets let Nick Young become an influence on the young core, of course you are heading for trouble.........

To expound on your point, I think the best way for the team to progress is to replace the coach and implement a sound, new age, philosophy moving forward (hopefully by hiring a college coach). Ideally for the young guys on our roster, and possibly for our top-3 pick, is to sign Horford and Batum this offseason. There's no doubt they wouldn't have much incentive to be on a rebuilding team, but for the Lakers it'd be the best case scenario imo. I'm not saying we would automatically be a playoff contending team, but as far as the team's growth is concerned getting Horford and Batum would be ideal.

By having Horford and Batum there as willing mentors for the young kids that we do have would help them develop their games tremendously. A year or two learning from 2 solid veterans would help their games by leaps and bounds. There's no mistaking there wouldn't be a championship coming up for the Lakers in the near horizon, but that isn't happening anyway with the elite teams like GSW and SA. However, one would think that the development that they would theoretically get the next couple of years with the vets on the roster would help them get a leg or two up on the young teams that seemingly are better right now (Minnesota, Utah, etc.). I can only hope that the FO is thinking somewhere along the lines of this and can put things in place that can help the young guys thrive. They have plenty of time to make a name for themselves in this league. It all starts next year.


kkennon1
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kerby720 wrote:
To expound on your point, I think the best way for the team to progress is to replace the coach and implement a sound, new age, philosophy moving forward (hopefully by hiring a college coach). Ideally for the young guys on our roster, and possibly for our top-3 pick, is to sign Horford and Batum this offseason. There's no doubt they wouldn't have much incentive to be on a rebuilding team, but for the Lakers it'd be the best case scenario imo. I'm not saying we would automatically be a playoff contending team, but as far as the team's growth is concerned getting Horford and Batum would be ideal.

By having Horford and Batum there as willing mentors for the young kids that we do have would help them develop their games tremendously. A year or two learning from 2 solid veterans would help their games by leaps and bounds. There's no mistaking there wouldn't be a championship coming up for the Lakers in the near horizon, but that isn't happening anyway with the elite teams like GSW and SA. However, one would think that the development that they would theoretically get the next couple of years with the vets on the roster would help them get a leg or two up on the young teams that seemingly are better right now (Minnesota, Utah, etc.). I can only hope that the FO is thinking somewhere along the lines of this and can put things in place that can help the young guys thrive. They have plenty of time to make a name for themselves in this league. It all starts next year.

Agree, but I could still see this FO trying to hit a HR, and not getting a top tier FA. Than going the 1 or 2 year contract route...smh


userpete1037
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kkennon1 wrote:
Agree, but I could still see this FO trying to hit a HR, and not getting a top tier FA. Than going the 1 or 2 year contract route...smh

You ain't lying...lol!!!!....Man I'm hoping this summer is the start of a rebirth. WE NEED IT.


Shepherd
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Exactly. So far they've shown that's all they know how to do. The attempt to lure top FA's here so far has been as lame as a duck with no feet. Tempy my point about the players is that the team seems to NOT be surrounding a talented young core with wily vets. Which as you note, is what needs to happen, yet so far has not. Other than the above referenced one and done contracts with players with no where else to go. Not a very good way to tutor youth, by having a revolving door of washed up vets with no incentive to aid in their development. Thus my point in the utter importance of this years offseason. Otherwise we go back to the status quo of the last few years. As for your grandfather etc, yes I've heard that a million times. However this time it is a different (very different) set of circumstances. Yes every generation changes and so on. All good. But none are as badly raised and poorly behaved in history as the millennials. It's just not the same thing as the usual generational complaints, which as for myself, up until now I have not really had. I'm not a particularly old guy at 47, and I'm not one to jump on that old cliche anyways. I use my eyes and my brains in analyzing things, not some knee jerk getting older guy reaction, afraid of who's replacing me. That dadgummit rock and roll generation with their bell bottom blue jeans LOL. In that way perhaps I'm different than most. I don't know. My own wife is 18 years younger, so I believe in the youth movement LOL. Keeps one alive and fresh. The true fountain of youth if there ever was one. So my opinion....


JJCali
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^^ it's exactly the same thing. Every generation has said exactly what you just said about this generation.


Shepherd
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JJCali wrote:
^^ it's exactly the same thing. Every generation has said exactly what you just said about this generation.

I don't think so. However, only this time is it right lol


JJCali
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You're in denial brother lol. The generation you are talking about is going to say the exact same thing about the next one.


Shepherd
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Don't think so. Anyone who has a job of any length of time knows the quality of the new young workers is piss poor. Sending all their time on the internet, staring blankly at phones, playing video games, worrying more about snapchat than their jobs. None of that, and nothing like that, was ever available before. Not to mention parents have spoiled a while generation of kids so badly that it's impossible to fix now. We own a few small businesses, and have friends who do, and it's become a considerable problem to deal with. Now this $15 min wage for entry level jobs is crazy. We all pray someone over 30 with half a brain and an attention span longer than a millisecond and a desire to do something well walks in the door looking for work.


Tempy
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Shepherd wrote:
Don't think so. Anyone who has a job of any length of time knows the quality of the new young workers is piss poor. Sending all their time on the internet, staring blankly at phones, playing video games, worrying more about snapchat than their jobs. None of that, and nothing like that, was ever available before. Not to mention parents have spoiled a while generation of kids so badly that it's impossible to fix now. We own a few small businesses, and have friends who do, and it's become a considerable problem to deal with. Now this $15 min wage for entry level jobs is crazy. We all pray someone over 30 with half a brain and an attention span longer than a millisecond and a desire to do something well walks in the door looking for work.

How is playing video games or surfing the internet any worse than watching the TV?

I've worked with older guys that milked the company system to the max, even calling HR to ask how many sick days they still had. Scheduling doctor appointments to get out of work on purpose. Turning up to work drunk and pretending they were working.

I'm not saying the younger generation are saints but neither are other generations.

Totally agree about the minimum wage BS though. Don't worry about finishing HS or obtaining a skill, your still going to get paid $15 an hour. It's quite laughable when all it will do is increase the cost of living and they are no better off.


Shepherd
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Tempy wrote:
How is playing video games or surfing the internet any worse than watching the TV? I've worked with older guys that milked the company system to the max, even calling HR to ask how many sick days they still had. Scheduling doctor appointments to get out of work on purpose. Turning up to work drunk and pretending they were working. I'm not saying the younger generation are saints but neither are other generations. Totally agree about the minimum wage BS though. Don't worry about finishing HS or obtaining a skill, your still going to get paid $15 an hour. It's quite laughable when....


Tempy
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Shepherd wrote:
Yeah I don't watch tv either so I get it. There are plenty of lazy older pple who do, you're right. I don't condone it at all. That said video games and gadget watching has become an all encompassing obsession. Pple for example, older ones you mention, don't watch tv at work, unless their security guards lol. But young ones can't stop with the online browsing, texting etc no matter where they are. It's like TV watching on steroids. And mostly highly violent content. Anyways it's all a wonderful plan cooked up by Hollywood and the Gov to keep pple....


Shepherd
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Tempy wrote:
Well it's what you said, keeping the population stupid, all the above are an extension of the TV. The only thing Orwell got wrong was the year lol.

Yeah, just made tv mobile I guess. No excuse for not watching/playing something now non-stop. He still did a pretty good job of pointing out the obvious tho lol.

But what pple do at home is their business. When you own a shop and are looking for workers (ooops I mean "associates" lol), and everyone who comes in can barely keep their hands off their phones for the 15 minutes of the interview, you can see them just itching to look at it, like it's time to shoot heroine lol. So you tell them they can't use their phones at work except in emergency, and ask how they feel about that. That you actually expect them to work when they're at work. And they say, nah, no thanks. I gots my peeps to keep up wit all day and my gurl etc. And they walk out, looking for something more mindless that will indulge their sense of entitlement to get paid for doing nothing. Anyways, is it too much to expect a decent knowledge of the local language? A little vocabulary that doesn't sound like it's from the back alley? Sheeesh. That's what I'm talkin about.


JJCali
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Shepherd wrote:
Don't think so. Anyone who has a job of any length of time knows the quality of the new young workers is piss poor. Sending all their time on the internet, staring blankly at phones, playing video games, worrying more about snapchat than their jobs. None of that, and nothing like that, was ever available before. Not to mention parents have spoiled a while generation of kids so badly that it's impossible to fix now. We own a few small businesses, and have friends who do, and it's become a considerable problem to deal with. Now this $15 min wage....


WatchTheSkyFall24
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Durant isn't coming here if the team is stacked with Rookies and Sophomores. He couldn't care less about these clowns with "potential."


userpete1037
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^^^

Yeah that dude is ready to win now and rightfully so....


Tempy
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WatchTheSkyFall24 wrote:
Durant isn't coming here if the team is stacked with Rookies and Sophomores. He couldn't care less about these clowns with "potential."

Depends who else the Lakers can get in free agency. The thunder are not going to win as currently constructed. I don't see the Warriors breaking their core up for him. So unless he just wants money he has nothing to lose by leaving.

If the Lakers could land Whiteside and Ingram/Simmons with a capable coach they would be a very dangerous team. They would easily win 45 games which would be good enough for the 5th seed this season.

Do I expect him to become a laker? No, but it's not as far fetched as some people think.


kkennon1
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Tempy wrote:
Depends who else the Lakers can get in free agency. The thunder are not going to win as currently constructed. I don't see the Warriors breaking their core up for him. So unless he just wants money he has nothing to lose by leaving.

If the Lakers could land Whiteside and Ingram/Simmons with a capable coach they would be a very dangerous team. They would easily win 45 games which would be good enough for the 5th seed this season.

Do I expect him to become a laker? No, but it's not as far fetched as some people think.

Not far fetched, but slim. Lol

But who knows, KD could be or going to, talk to other FA'S about joining Lakers, come in a package deal. Doubtful, but stranger things have happened.


JJCali
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Tempy wrote:
Depends who else the Lakers can get in free agency. The thunder are not going to win as currently constructed. I don't see the Warriors breaking their core up for him. So unless he just wants money he has nothing to lose by leaving.

If the Lakers could land Whiteside and Ingram/Simmons with a capable coach they would be a very dangerous team. They would easily win 45 games which would be good enough for the 5th seed this season.

Do I expect him to become a laker? No, but it's not as far fetched as some people think.

I agree. A team like this would be scary to other teams, if we had a great coach.

Russell / Williams / Huertas

Clarkson / Young

Durant / Simmons / Brown

Randle / Nance / Bass

Whiteside / Mahimni

I also agree it won't happen though lol.



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