Lakers All in on Durant and I Don't Want It.

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SPQR
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Was listening to a sports radio show the other and heard some things Mitch as planned that did not exactly thrill me. Of course the words thrilled and Mitch Kupchak have pretty much been mutually exclusive for me for some time. What the said was the Lakers are going to go after Durant like no team has every pursued a free agent before. That includes stratospheric money and promises made in all kinds of areas including player decision. It also includes up and including hiring Scott Brooks as our coach if that is Durant wants. Hiring a failed Scott Brooks is not what I want. There are a lot better coaching candidates out there. Nor am I up to giving Durant player personal decision powers. Giving a player decision rights on roster moves is inimical to the best interests of the team. The latest example of that was Lebron trading Wiggins for Love. With the prospect of facing Golden State or San Antonio in the finals, don't you think Cleveland would rather have an athletic, defensive player like Wiggins who can also score and create his own shot, a budding star, than Love right now? I bet they would. That one move by GM Lebron may have cost Cleveland any chance to ever win a title. Players see things through their own prisms of needs and desires. And what a player thinks is good for him is not always correct or what is best for the team as a whole. I am so tired of Mitch always going for that super star to turn us around. You know, Nash, Howard, Aldridge and now Durant. Mitch was damn lucky we kept the Russell pick. And will be lucky again if we keep this years pick. It was through no foresight on his part we....

OCLakerfan8
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If the Lakers are smart and remain active in signing other players while waiting for KD to make his decisions and have a backup plan in case we don't get KD I have no problems with the FO going after Durant.

He does shoot a lot but doesn't necessarily kill an offense like Melo does and he doesn't seem to be an egomaniac like Kobe or Lebron is so I don't think he'll dramatically impact the kids in an negative way. Also we do need a small forward so it's not like we're doing moves that are redundant (like getting Lou when we had Swaggy P).

I think if we get a new coach that'll improve our defense getting kevin Durant will make us instant contenders.

kkennon1
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Agree somewhat, but I don't think us keeping pick and getting Simmons or Ingram has us competing for a title in 3 years. And this being a weak draft, think after Simmons and Ingram there's a huge drop off. As far as Durant turning us around, no not by himself, but add another FA with him like a Whiteside and we could be right back in title hunt. Now if they're going to give Durant player decisions than I'd say pass, if that's happening than get rid of Mitch and give GM job to Durant. Lol

As far as hurting development of young players, I don't see that effecting them to much, they'll be on court with Durant. But I see your point I'd like to see Lakers continue to build young core and make smart signings in FA, but sooner or later they're going to have to bring in a top tier guy or guys, or its going to be a long rebuild waiting for young core to develop and compete in a stacked Western Conference. And that's if one or two of young core turnout to be stars.

MAGICLAKEZ
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Randy, I have been debating this lately and going back and forth with myself and I'm glad somebody posted this and encouraged or facilitated this debate. This is very relevant and pertinent in the current scheme of things. One of the reasons why I'm slightly skeptical about wanting Durant out here: He is too emotional of a person and constantly breaks down mentally/physically and I'm not just talking about his crying (breaking down)in front of the media. He capitulates in big moments and games and is virtually reduced to a shadow of himself. He has never managed to exorcise the Lebron demons inside him or gotten past the mental block he has vs Lebron and cut a sorry /pale figure in the finals few years ago. He just doesn't have the "winner mentality." Supremely gifted and talented player, but lacks that killer mental instinct required to take you over the hump. Plus I don't want to be stuck with someone who is in his prime, cause the next phase is "past the prime" as nature intended. And he is soon approaching that basketball mortality stage. Maybe 3-4 years ago I would have sung a diff tune..lol. Westbrook's another Kobe or should we call him Diet Kobe, who has marginalized Durant in OKC and takes crazy contested shots although to his credit he has deferred a lot recently, to Durant (only Durant..lol). But to westbrook's credit his mental fortitude makes up for his gung ho exploits out in the middle. He is a loose cannon but is a cold blooded assassin on the floor. I don't see him breaking down like Durant. However he has the same issues like Kobe and his "this is my team" could prove to be detrimental to the interests of the franchise and especially....

kkennon1
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
Randy, I have been debating this lately and going back and forth with myself and I'm glad somebody posted this and encouraged or facilitated this debate. This is very relevant and pertinent in the current scheme of things.

Westbrook's another Kobe or should we call him Diet Kobe, who has marginalized Durant in OKC and takes crazy contested shots although to his credit he has deferred a lot recently, to Durant (only Durant..lol). But to westbrook's credit his mental fortitude makes up for his gung ho exploits out in the middle. He is a loose cannon but is a cold blooded assassin on the floor. I don't see him breaking down like Durant. However he has the same issues like Kobe and his "this is my team" could prove to be detrimental to the interests of the franchise and especially the young core, in the long run as was evidenced in the outgoing Reptilian regime which reigned supreme for 20 years and arrested development as a byproduct of its existence. Been there, done that....ain't going back....lmao!!!!!

Therefore for all intents and purposes we need to hope and indulge in voodoo and summon all supernatural forces if possible, to ensure we land Simmons or Ingram. Lol. We are one piece away from being a well rounded team with our own farm grown produce. Simmons is the final link to the puzzle. I still want him over anyone else in this draft.

Yeah Simmons does seem like one of the final pieces, but I'd still take Westbrook.

kerby720
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If we're able to get Simmons, I think that would be the ultimate scenario for the Lakers. He could/would probably end up being the playmaker for our team and that's not a bad thing. If we're able to have two guys that can facilitate (Russell and Simmons) that'd be fantastic. We could mold our team to be similar to the Warriors. I know those are lofty expectations cause of what they've been able to accomplish, but I just hope the Lakers can take how they play on the offensive side of the ball and make it their own. Ball movement and player movement are paramount in that offense. Don't get me wrong, Curry or Klay still take the most shots (sometimes 20+), but they don't play iso-ball in the sense where one person is dribbling it for 10+ seconds or shooting over a double/triple team.

As good as Curry is, any one of 4 or 5 players on the warriors can go off on any night. I hope the Lakers can be the same way. I think with talent like Russell, Clarkson, Randle, and Simmons/Ingram, that can happen.

kkennon1
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kerby720 wrote:
If we're able to get Simmons, I think that would be the ultimate scenario for the Lakers. He could/would probably end up being the playmaker for our team and that's not a bad thing. If we're able to have two guys that can facilitate (Russell and Simmons) that'd be fantastic. We could mold our team to be similar to the Warriors. I know those are lofty expectations cause of what they've been able to accomplish, but I just hope the Lakers can take how they play on the offensive side of the ball and make it their own. Ball movement and player movement are paramount in that offense. Don't get me wrong, Curry or Klay still take the most shots (sometimes 20+), but they don't play iso-ball in the sense where one person is dribbling it for 10+ seconds or shooting over a double/triple team.

As good as Curry is, any one of 4 or 5 players on the warriors can go off on any night. I hope the Lakers can be the same way. I think with talent like Russell, Clarkson, Randle, and Simmons/Ingram, that can happen.

Agree, but that's if everything falls in to place and 2 or 3 of them turnout to be at least all star level, not saying they won't, but right now no one knows. Also 3 or 4 years from now they will be contending with other up and coming young teams with great young cores like Wolves, Jazz, Blazers , with Warriors still being young enough to be in championship hunt. Just think you have to add in FA somewhere down the line.

MAGICLAKEZ
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My coaching candidates would be Luke Walton, Ettori Messina (Spurs) and Kevin Ollie. Ideally we need a young coach for the young core who would grow along with them. Somewhat along the lines with what Boston did, when they hired Brad Stevens.

I don't want retreads like thibs/brooks/Hollins/Jackson(Mark, not Phil..lol). Out of the veteran coaches only JVG intrigues me, but I read somewhere that like his brother in Detroit, he would only accept a coaching position if he was given the additional responsibility of making executive basketball decisions.

kerby720
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kkennon1 wrote:
Agree, but that's if everything falls in to place and 2 or 3 of them turnout to be at least all star level, not saying they won't, but right now no one knows. Also 3 or 4 years from now they will be contending with other up and coming young teams with great young cores like Wolves, Jazz, Blazers , with Warriors still being young enough to be in championship hunt. Just think you have to add in FA somewhere down the line.

Oh for sure, I'm not saying that we shouldn't get FA at all. I'm just hoping that our core is the focus. Assuming they reach their potential of course, if they don't and we have to go after marquee free agents, then that's another problem altogether.

kkennon1
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
My coaching candidates would be Luke Walton, Ettori Messina (Spurs) and Kevin Ollie. Ideally we need a young coach for the young core who would grow along with them. Somewhat along the lines with what Boston did, when they hired Brad Stevens.

I don't want retreads like thibs/brooks/Hollins/Jackson(Mark, not Phil..lol). Out of the veteran coaches only JVG intrigues me, but I read somewhere that like his brother in Detroit, he would only accept a coaching position if he was given the additional responsibility of making executive basketball decisions.

I like your list MAGICLAKEZ, I agree about young coaches, unless bozos in FO go FA crazy and all of a sudden young core is coming off bench again, or splitting time with veterans. Than I think you might need a more seasoned coach. But hopefully that doesn't happen.

mcbill
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The only way I see us getting a top flight free agent this summer is by 2 or 3 of them collaborating Miami style and then seeking out a scenario where they could play together. Maybe that's what was meant by giving Durant some personnel control. I don't see Durant as the type of guy who want to sign somewhere to chase a title(Golde State), but if he had an opportunity to go to a team that he could take a couple of veterans he respects and trusts he might go that route.

IhatetheCeltics
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I hate the idea of giving players personnel power.....

userpete1037
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
I hate the idea of giving players personnel power.....

That is never a good idea and I don't advise the F.O. to go that route but who knows....

WILT100
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add Durant and Whiteside along with either Simmons or Ingram and we are good going forward. That would require Durant and Whiteside being in collusion for sure.

tmike23
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If Durant wants the keys to the White House, Mitch better find a way to get the keys to the White House. A player of KD's caliber can demand whatever it is he wants just like most superstars should. It's the modern NBA and if that's what it takes, so be it.

SPQR
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Roman, I understand what you say about Durant. One advantage playing in Oklahoma gives him is it's a small market city. He is kind of out of the limelight and pressure that entails. As an example, remember when Lebron wasn't winning titles? All the pressure and media focus on him? Well here is Durant at 27, no rings and nobody really talks about it or presses him on it. All the talk is about Golden State and Cleveland and Lebron, as usual. Now if he comes to LA, that all changes in an instant. Then he's in the frying pan and every failure gets magnified ten fold. How would he handle it? He has gotten snippy with the small press in OKC when the few articles questioning him have appeared. Your point about his physical break downs are well taken too. Nothing could be worse than paying him a kings ransom, hiring the coach he wants, getting players he wants, then having him continually break down. That would be a nightmare. Another guy I really don't want is Westbrook, despite his obvious talent. The guy has to have the ball. He will take the choice shots, and some not so choice, lol. He often plays out of control, especially in end game situations. If we get him, Russell will be reduced to a spot up shooter and the ball will be out of his hands. The one thing about Russell that disappoints me is the stories of his much vaunted passing spread by the likes of such luminaries as West and Pitino. Yet when I watch him, I don't see it yet. In fact, Huertas is much more facile at setting up the offense and making both the easy and hard passes. You can see that difference emphatically when you watch Russell and....

kkennon1
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SPQR have to disagree with you about Westbrook, think he could handle pressure of playing in LA a lot better than Durant. Also I think Westbrook has become a much more willing passer, think he'd be great next to Russell, with Russell at sg...imo

But at same time not going to cry about it if it never happens. Still want to see how current young players, with hopefully Simmons added develop the next few years before bringing in superstar. Just hoping for a 2nd tier player, like a Whiteside in a position of need.

SPQR
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Kkennon,

I understand your view and you may be right about it. Westbrook is a great player and most of the league will out to snag him when he comes up.

In the end, I'm just tired of young Lakers taking back seats to veterans. I want Russell and Randle front and center and build around them as the stars. Hopefully Simmons too.

Russell is a very intriguing guy for me. You can see his talent. It is so clear. I'm now thinking of what he could be. If this guy does have that rare "magical" passing ability he was reputed to have, why he was drafted second, along with the other skills he has already shown, I'm thinking he could end up the best and most versatile player in basketball in a short, few years. I just don't want anyone coming here and delaying that. If this guy starts to show the passing acumen he was reputed to have, forget it, man. He's gonna lead the way, not just for the Lakers, but the whole league and were all gonna be going nuts.

kkennon1
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SPQR wrote:
Kkennon,

I understand your view and you may be right about it. Westbrook is a great player and most of the league will out to snag him when he comes up.

In the end, I'm just tired of young Lakers taking back seats to veterans. I want Russell and Randle front and center and build around them as the stars. Hopefully Simmons too.

Russell is a very intriguing guy for me. You can see his talent. It is so clear. I'm now thinking of what he could be. If this guy does have that rare "magical" passing ability he was reputed to have, why he was drafted second, along with the other skills he has already shown, I'm thinking he could end up the best and most versatile player in basketball in a short, few years. I just don't want anyone coming here and delaying that. If this guy starts to show the passing acumen he was reputed to have, forget it, man. He's gonna lead the way, not just for the Lakers, but the whole league and were all gonna be going nuts.

I'll be happy if he becomes a J. Harden type player, without the attitude of course. But like Harden can get you 30+ on any given night and 7+ assists.

Lakers4Lyfe
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SPQR wrote:
Kkennon,

I understand your view and you may be right about it. Westbrook is a great player and most of the league will out to snag him when he comes up.

In the end, I'm just tired of young Lakers taking back seats to veterans. I want Russell and Randle front and center and build around them as the stars. Hopefully Simmons too.

Russell is a very intriguing guy for me. You can see his talent. It is so clear. I'm now thinking of what he could be. If this guy does have that rare "magical" passing ability he was reputed to have, why he was drafted second, along with the other skills he has already shown, I'm thinking he could end up the best and most versatile player in basketball in a short, few years. I just don't want anyone coming here and delaying that. If this guy starts to show the passing acumen he was reputed to have, forget it, man. He's gonna lead the way, not just for the Lakers, but the whole league and were all gonna be going nuts.

He's an elite passer for a SG, his true position. I don't think he's a PG at all or will ever truly be one but will play there because of his ball handling and court vision. I think going forward he'll be a player where if you need him to score he'll step up and score and some games he'll sit back and rack up assists if others have their shot falling. He's capable of passing but he's not a guy that's gonna average 8 or 9 assists a night. I see him being around 5 or 6.

MAGICLAKEZ
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Randy, I actually agree with you regarding the ball being in Russell's hands. I definitely prefer the offense running through him than clarkson. Clarkson is soon taking over Kobe's mantle...lol. He plays with blinders on, with a predominantly tunnel vision, just eyeing the rim while overlooking teammates even if they are open. He seems quite intent to "get his" while ignoring the right plays. The only time he releases the ball is if he gets doubled or tripled. He invariably wastes time off the shot clock with his iso bs and hinders the offensive flow like his more illustrious mentor. He subsequently ends up making a last second Hail Mary bail out pass with barely 5 seconds left on the shot clock. This has been a slightly disruptive/disturbing trend of late. He was not like this last year and was setting up the team nicely with his deep penetrating runs down the paint and with his athleticism he was causing defenses to collapse thus allowing mates to stretch the floor and facilitating open shots to the wings. I was actually really looking forward to (I still am) seeing both these young bucks co-exist while complementing each other with back court duties. I was hoping to see them feed of each other as interchangeable components and wanted them to be equally involved at setting up the team through ball handling activities and taking the right shot as and when needed. I did not want to pigeon hole their descriptions as I wanted them to be complementary pieces. I looked at them from the synergistic point of view. They are both bonafide combo guards and I have dialed down or tempered my expectations as far as Russell is concerned and his much touted Zeus passing abilities. I have come to take him for what he....

JJCali
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SPQR, I don't disagree with most of your points. First, I don't believe this report that you heard, yeah they may go after him hard. They may even tell him his input would be very much considered when hiring a new coach, but that would definitely be where I stop Believing any of this. There is NO WAY they would give him say in personnel decisions. I wouldn't mind if Durant came to LA. I'm also not clamp ring for it. But I do think if he and Whiteside both came to LA we'd be in playoffs easily in year one and probably contenders in year 2.

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kkennon1 wrote:
Agree, but that's if everything falls in to place and 2 or 3 of them turnout to be at least all star level, not saying they won't, but right now no one knows. Also 3 or 4 years from now they will be contending with other up and coming young teams with great young cores like Wolves, Jazz, Blazers , with Warriors still being young enough to be in championship hunt. Just think you have to add in FA somewhere down the line.

I don't think the Jazz or Blazers have great young cores at all. Plus I think that FA signing could be this year in Whiteside. I don't any reason to add a "top guy" after that. They'd have a ridiculous starting 5. Don't see it taking 4 or 5 years either.

JJCali
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WILT100 wrote:
add Durant and Whiteside along with either Simmons or Ingram and we are good going forward. That would require Durant and Whiteside being in collusion for sure.

I say add Whiteside and Ingram/Simmons OR Whiteside & Durant. If we get Simmons I wouldn't pursue Durant.

kkennon1
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JJCali wrote:
I don't think the Jazz or Blazers have great young cores at all. Plus I think that FA signing could be this year in Whiteside. I don't any reason to add a "top guy" after that. They'd have a ridiculous starting 5. Don't see it taking 4 or 5 years either.

So Lillard and McCollum aren't great, please!!! I'd take Lillard over anyone we currently have in backcourt. Jazz have Exum, who was starting to play very well before getting injured, plus they have R.Hood looking very good at sf, and Gobert at 5.

Tempy
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Quite a long post but I'm trying to quote the best I can. Although I agree Scott Brooks is not the best coach out there, I think he is criticized way more than warranted. He has a career win ratio of 0.62 and the thunder don't seem to have improved since he was fired. He brought along Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka extremely well, so he has experience with player development. He is certainly better than the recent hires. As for Durant and player power, he (IMO) doesn't seem to crave or want that power. He doesn't even consider himself as the #1 on the team. He often quotes that he and Westbrook have to find ways to make the team better. He does not have the personality that Kobe and LBJ do, where they have to be the alpha dog. Durant coexisted very well with Westbrook and Harden, I don't see how he would subsume the young core. In all reality none of the core are ready to be a #1 option just yet. If there was 1 superstar in the league that could help the young core and bring the best out of them, it would be Durant. The Lakers have a great young core, I think they need more than 1 piece though, filling in those holes with high quality pieces that fit within the system is critical. Which is where the problem lies, Mitch fails to sign players that fit. IF the Lakers somehow manage to keep the pick, I would agree the worst is over. But if they don't and they stick with scott, I don't think they will have. It will be another season of torture. Mitch has been extremely lucky the past few seasons, the draft picks have been home runs, Kobe was injured to allow those picks to....

Tempy
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OCLakerfan8 wrote:
If the Lakers are smart and remain active in signing other players while waiting for KD to make his decisions and have a backup plan in case we don't get KD I have no problems with the FO going after Durant.

He does shoot a lot but doesn't necessarily kill an offense like Melo does and he doesn't seem to be an egomaniac like Kobe or Lebron is so I don't think he'll dramatically impact the kids in an negative way. Also we do need a small forward so it's not like we're doing moves that are redundant (like getting Lou when we had Swaggy P).

I think if we get a new coach that'll improve our defense getting kevin Durant will make us instant contenders.

Contenders? The thunder aren't even considered contenders. The only reason the cavs are considered contenders is because the Warriors or Spurs have to play someone from the East.

At best it makes the Lakers equal to the clippers, a solid 3rd or 4th seed in the West.

Tempy
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:

Westbrook's another Kobe or should we call him Diet Kobe, who has marginalized Durant in OKC. He is a loose cannon but is a cold blooded assassin on the floor. I don't see him breaking down like Durant. However he has the same issues like Kobe and his "this is my team" could prove to be detrimental to the interests of the franchise and especially the young core, in the long run as was evidenced in the outgoing Reptilian regime which reigned supreme for 20 years and arrested development as a byproduct of its existence. Been there, done that....ain't going back....lmao!!!!!

Therefore for all intents and purposes we need to hope and indulge in voodoo and summon all supernatural forces if possible, to ensure we land Simmons or Ingram. Lol. We are one piece away from being a well rounded team with our own farm grown produce. Simmons is the final link to the puzzle. I still want him over anyone else in this draft.

We don't have to spend the money just to make a statement as is the case with the poker faced clown aka kupchak and his fascination for chasing big names. I'm ok if we sign batum who moves and plays well without the ball and maybe whiteside as the center. Whiteside has issues but so did Kobe. But whiteside is about the same age as clarkson I suspect, so chances of it working out are there. The player I really covet and am anxiously waiting for whenever he wants out, is Paul George. I'm also really hoping they don't sign Derozan as a statement acquisition. I'd rather pay clarkson his money than give Derozan the max. Don't need another ball stopper, iso loving volume shooter.

Westbrook is going to be almost 29 when he is a free agent, players who rely on athleticism (see LBJ) fall off dramatically in their early thirties. No doubt he is a great player but that is post prime territory, I'd rather pass than continue paying past their best vets.

Whiteside will be 27 in the summer. Offering a 4 year deal is not bad but depending on future problems (if they're any) he could be untradeable at a max deal.

Would agree rather pay Clarkson over DeRozan especially if it means paying max money.

Keeping the pick is paramount, not only in the hope we land a talented player but to avoid paying the magic a 1st rounder in the future. If that happens I'm hoping Mitch can resist the urge to chase the stars and start filling in the holes. Unsurprisingly, I doubt that's going to happen.

Tempy
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kkennon1 wrote:
So Lillard and McCollum aren't great, please!!! I'd take Lillard over anyone we currently have in backcourt. Jazz have Exum, who was starting to play very well before getting injured, plus they have R.Hood looking very good at sf, and Gobert at 5.

They have a very undervalued player in Hayward. I don't think he will ever be a #1 option but 20 ppg with 5 boards and 4 assists a game is nothing to be sniffed at.

kkennon1
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Tempy wrote:
They have a very undervalued player in Hayward. I don't think he will ever be a #1 option but 20 ppg with 5 boards and 4 assists a game is nothing to be sniffed at.

Thanks Tempy, forgot about Hayward. Like I said, Lakers aren't the only team with good young core.

Tempy
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Lakers4Lyfe wrote:
He's an elite passer for a SG, his true position. I don't think he's a PG at all or will ever truly be one but will play there because of his ball handling and court vision. I think going forward he'll be a player where if you need him to score he'll step up and score and some games he'll sit back and rack up assists if others have their shot falling. He's capable of passing but he's not a guy that's gonna average 8 or 9 assists a night. I see him being around 5 or 6.

I don't see how that's a bad thing. They are only 5 players in the league that average 8 assists or more.

Tempy
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kkennon1 wrote:
Thanks Tempy, forgot about Hayward. Like I said, Lakers aren't the only team with good young core.

JJ has a huge laker bias, which is to be expected around here after all. I think Minnesota have a better core, the problem being they have never been able to attract free agents. Which is where the Lakers may have an advantage, if they stop chasing stars and fill in the holes.

Tempy
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MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
Randy,

I actually agree with you regarding the ball being in Russell's hands. I definitely prefer the offense running through him than clarkson. Clarkson is soon taking over Kobe's mantle...lol. He plays with blinders on, with a predominantly tunnel vision, just eyeing the rim while overlooking teammates even if they are open. He seems quite intent to "get his" while ignoring the right plays. The only time he releases the ball is if he gets doubled or tripled. He invariably wastes time off the shot clock with his iso bs and hinders the offensive flow like his more illustrious mentor. He subsequently ends up making a last second Hail Mary bail out pass with barely 5 seconds left on the shot clock. This has been a slightly disruptive/disturbing trend of late.

He was not like this last year and was setting up the team nicely with his deep penetrating runs down the paint and with his athleticism he was causing defenses to collapse thus allowing mates to stretch the floor and facilitating open shots to the wings. I was actually really looking forward to (I still am) seeing both these young bucks co-exist while complementing each other with back court duties. I was hoping to see them feed of each other as interchangeable components and wanted them to be equally involved at setting up the team through ball handling activities and taking the right shot as and when needed. I did not want to pigeon hole their descriptions as I wanted them to be complementary pieces. I looked at them from the synergistic point of view.

I think or at least I'm hoping, with Clarkson, he is in a contract year and is looking to get his for negotiating purposes. I have no other explanation for his fall off in playmaking abilities.

OCLakerfan8
votes: 20
Laker GM
Posts: 2896

Tempy wrote:
Contenders? The thunder aren't even considered contenders. The only reason the cavs are considered contenders is because the Warriors or Spurs have to play someone from the East.

At best it makes the Lakers equal to the clippers, a solid 3rd or 4th seed in the West.

You're probably right. Not that I think they are but I thought the Clippers are considered contenders by most analysts.

Lakers4Lyfe
votes: 3
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 769
Location: Lakeland, FL

Tempy wrote:
I don't see how that's a bad thing. They are only 5 players in the league that average 8 assists or more.

I wasn't saying that it is. It just seems like that's what people were expecting because of how scouts highlighted his passing skills.

kkennon1
votes: 23
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 14351
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Tempy wrote:
JJ has a huge laker bias, which is to be expected around here after all. I think Minnesota have a better core, the problem being they have never been able to attract free agents. Which is where the Lakers may have an advantage, if they stop chasing stars and fill in the holes.

Ha ha !! Yeah I said Minnesota has best core before too, but got killed on here for it. Agree it's going to be harder for them to get FA'S to go there.

JJCali
votes: 22
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8544

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kkennon1 wrote:
So Lillard and McCollum aren't great, please!!! I'd take Lillard over anyone we currently have in backcourt. Jazz have Exum, who was starting to play very well before getting injured, plus they have R.Hood looking very good at sf, and Gobert at 5.

Lillard is great. Not McCollum. And 2 players equals a great young core? Please!!! Unless you're talking some sort of Shaq & Kobe get out of here with that! Yeah that Jazz group you just named is laughable in the "great young core" regards.

MAGICLAKEZ
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LNS HOF Gold
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Location: Los Angeles, California
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Tempy wrote:
I think or at least I'm hoping, with Clarkson, he is in a contract year and is looking to get his for negotiating purposes. I have no other explanation for his fall off in playmaking abilities.

Lol. That's what I was thinking as well. He is auditioning for a huge pay day. Confused as to why Byron hasn't called him out yet, but then again he likes these "one on five" type players

kkennon1
votes: 23
LNS HOF Silver
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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JJCali wrote:
Lillard is great. Not McCollum. And 2 players equals a great young core? Please!!! Unless you're talking some sort of Shaq & Kobe get out of here with that! Yeah that Jazz group you just named is laughable in the "great young core" regards.

McCollum might get most improved player in nba this year , and no its not just those two, but where are the Blazers in the standings even after losing Aldridge, rest my case!!!

Stop being so laker bias!!! Lol

JJCali
votes: 22
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8544

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kkennon1 wrote:
McCollum might get most improved player in nba this year , and no it not just those two, but where are the Blazers in the standings even after losing Aldridge, rest my case!!!

Stop being so laker bias!!! Lol

Stop having such a poor eye for talent all of a sudden. It's not my fault if all of a sudden you think everyone around the league is more talented than everyone on the Lakers. Greek Freak for example is a very talented young player, but quit acting like he's a future greatest player of all time. 16-7-3 is nice for a 3rd year player, but it isn't earth shattering. I'll guarantee that Randle's number will be way better in his third year. McCollum has been very good. But I wouldn't call him a great player. Lillard and the coaching deserves a lot of credit for where they are in the standings, they arguably had the worst team on paper coming into this season. Many people picked them to be last in the west. You probably shouldn't be a lawyer "resting your case" while not even accomplishing anything. Lol

kkennon1
votes: 23
LNS HOF Silver
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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JJCali wrote:
Stop having such a poor eye for talent all of a sudden. It's not my fault if all of a sudden you think everyone around the league is more talented than everyone on the Lakers. Greek Freak for example is a very talented young player, but quit acting like he's a future greatest player of all time. 16-7-3 is nice for a 3rd year player, but it isn't earth shattering. I'll guarantee that Randle's number will be way better in his third year. McCollum has been very good. But I wouldn't call him a great player. Lillard and the coaching deserves a lot of credit for where they are in the standings, they arguably had the worst team on paper coming into this season. Many people picked them to be last in the west. You probably shouldn't be a lawyer "resting your case" while not even accomplishing anything. Lol

Did say Greek Freak was going to be greatest player of all time, I said he's what Simmons is supposed to be already and only 21. And don't think every player around league is more talented than lakers, but you need to stop thinking Lakers core is more talented than everyone around league. As far as Randle's numbers being better, doubtful, Randle probably won't get the assists numbers Freak is getting because Randle not that type of player. Lakers core can be the best core in league, but we don't know that right now. So I'm going by what I see RIGHT NOW, not what they possibly will be. So I'll continue to trust my eye for talent.

Also JJCali my original post wasn't about young cores being better than Lakers, it was stating Lakers weren't the only up and coming young core. I'm very happy with lakers core, there's only one core I'd take over them and that's Minnesota's.

gemfow
votes: 181
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I have been on the fence in regards to Durant possibly coming to LA. He will be 29 I believe pretty soon. That means in three years he will possibly start to decline but the type of player he is, he can still score pretty well in his later years because he can drive, shoot and make plays for others. He usually has a height advantage which will also pay dividends for him in later years. I also feel that Durant can mesh with this team as already constructed. Durant is quite different than Kobe from the aspect of he moves without the ball, plays without the ball effectively and can spot up. Those are things Kobe has not cared to develop and instead has opted for isolations a majority of the time. This team can be very dangerous due to all the ballhandlers it has. Getting a defensive 5 and a scoring wing could pay serious dividends. I don't think we become contenders so that's why I'm leaning towards them keeping the pick and developing a team of talented guys.

I also don't understand why people would consider trading the top 3 pick. I say the pick should be untradeable. Why? You're talking about adding Simmons, Ingram or possibly Bender and two of them have a legit chance to be serious players in this league. I don't see the purpose of trading that when the rest of the core is very young. I say let this team grow together and stop worrying about trying to speed up the process so much. If we get to keep the pick then we would probably surpass Minnesota in regards to having a young and talented roster. They'd be more athletic but we would probably surpass them in skilled youngsters.

gemfow
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Location: Maryland
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kkennon1 wrote:
McCollum might get most improved player in nba this year , and no its not just those two, but where are the Blazers in the standings even after losing Aldridge, rest my case!!!

Stop being so laker bias!!! Lol

I think Jon Barry has brought up some valid points in regards to Steph receiving most improved player. They won't give it to him but Steph has increased his range and his points per game has increased considerably.

kkennon1
votes: 23
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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gemfow wrote:
I have been on the fence in regards to Durant possibly coming to LA. He will be 29 I believe pretty soon. That means in three years he will possibly start to decline but the type of player he is, he can still score pretty well in his later years because he can drive, shoot and make plays for others. He usually has a height advantage which will also pay dividends for him in later years. I also feel that Durant can mesh with this team as already constructed. Durant is quite different than Kobe from the aspect of he moves without the ball, plays without the ball effectively and can spot up. Those are things Kobe has not cared to develop and instead has opted for isolations a majority of the time. This team can be very dangerous due to all the ballhandlers it has. Getting a defensive 5 and a scoring wing could pay serious dividends. I don't think we become contenders so that's why I'm leaning towards them keeping the pick and developing a team of talented guys.

I also don't understand why people would consider trading the top 3 pick. I say the pick should be untradeable. Why? You're talking about adding Simmons, Ingram or possibly Bender and two of them have a legit chance to be serious players in this league. I don't see the purpose of trading that when the rest of the core is very young. I say let this team grow together and stop worrying about trying to speed up the process so much. If we get to keep the pick then we would probably surpass Minnesota in regards to having a young and talented roster. They'd be more athletic but we would probably surpass them in skilled youngsters.

Agree I'd keep pick if 1st or 2nd, just don't see a player after that worth 3rd, I see players later on in draft I like better than Brown or Bender.

kkennon1
votes: 23
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gemfow wrote:
I think Jon Barry has brought up some valid points in regards to Steph receiving most improved player. They won't give it to him but Steph has increased his range and his points per game has increased considerably.

True, but like you said, they won't give it to him.

gemfow
votes: 181
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Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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kkennon1 wrote:
Agree I'd keep pick if 1st or 2nd, just don't see a player after that worth 3rd, I see players later on in draft I like better than Brown or Bender.
That Bender kid looks like he could be a lot like Pau Gasol. I've seen some video of him and I like what I saw, he's a little skinny right now but he has length, can pass, can finish and has good athleticism.

kkennon1
votes: 23
LNS HOF Silver
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gemfow wrote:
That Bender kid looks like he could be a lot like Pau Gasol. I've seen some video of him and I like what I saw, he's a little skinny right now but he has length, can pass, can finish and has good athleticism.

Yeah, but do we really need another pf. And I stopped putting all my stock in hype videos about players a long time ago. Kid can't even get off bench with current team in Euro league. Not saying he won't be good, but he's definitely being drafted on hoping he's another Porzingis.

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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kkennon1 wrote:
Yeah, but do we really need another pf. And I stopped putting all my stock in hype videos about players a long time ago. Kid can't even get off bench with current team in Euro league. Not saying he won't be good, but he's definitely being drafted on hoping he's another Porzingis.

Lol, I look at highlights differently. I don't look at a person making baskets and get excited. I look at different things like how a player creates space, how passes are delivered and so on. The guy is about 220 right now, he puts on 25 pounds and he can easily play center in today's NBA. Him having the mental fortitude to play center is the question.

Tempy
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Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
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kkennon1 wrote:
Did say Greek Freak was going to be greatest player of all time, I said he's what Simmons is supposed to be already and only 21. And don't think every player around league is more talented than lakers, but you need to stop thinking Lakers core is more talented than everyone around league. As far as Randle's numbers being better, doubtful, Randle probably won't get the assists numbers Freak is getting because Randle not that type of player. Lakers core can be the best core in league, but we don't know that right now. So I'm going by what I see RIGHT NOW, not what they possibly will be. So I'll continue to trust my eye for talent.

I don't get why he is saying Randle will be better in his 3rd year. Randle is a month older, the Greek freak is just progressing faster. That's OK to admit even though you are a laker fan lol.

JJCali
votes: 22
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8544

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kkennon1 wrote:
Did say Greek Freak was going to be greatest player of all time, I said he's what Simmons is supposed to be already and only 21. And don't think every player around league is more talented than lakers, but you need to stop thinking Lakers core is more talented than everyone around league. As far as Randle's numbers being better, doubtful, Randle probably won't get the assists numbers Freak is getting because Randle not that type of player. Lakers core can be the best core in league, but we don't know that right now. So I'm going by what I see RIGHT NOW, not what they possibly will be. So I'll continue to trust my eye for talent.

Also JJCali my original post wasn't about young cores being better than Lakers, it was stating Lakers weren't the only up and coming young core. I'm very happy with lakers core, there's only one core I'd take over them and that's Minnesota's.

First of all I didn't say the Lakers had the absolute best core in the league. Minnesota is right there, arguablly better. I'm not the one being biased. I'm just in reality. And I didn't say you said Greek would be the best ever, but you are acting like it. Also, Randle can't average 3 assists within 2 years? Seriously? I'm guessing you did not know that's what Greek averages or you're crazy to think Randle can't get us 3 apg.


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