Lakers Palace Guard Stages Coup Against King Kobe (P. 2)

Lakers Forum » Lakers Blogs
Author Search This Topic:
 
SPQR
votes: 291
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 9286
Location: Pennsylvania
Sorry for the late response, but I have been so busy. Wish I had had time to peruse some of the comments to my post sooner or in more detail but I haven't because of time constraints. Just a few comments to some of the remarks. Shaq, There is no bias to my remarks. Only observation of what had happened up to the point of my post. Kobe at his age, so obviously not near the player he was trying to be the player he was. It got to the point where several players and coach said things. That shows how bad it was. My posts, all of them, always try to deal with objective reality. The thread I put up here is exactly that. No emotion involved, pro Kobe or anti. Just a comment on what was transpiring up to that point. Sometimes you just have to be blunt and honest in saying what needs to be said. Just like Swaggy and Ellington and Scott were. The fact, the fact is this: Kobe needs to help this team the best way he can. That is by playing team ball and making this very long and uncomfortable journey as pleasant as possible for this team. No, they won't be contenders no matter what he does, shooting or passing, but at least make this trip as bearable as possible for all involved. Humiliating himself by trying to be a 28 year old Kobe and alienating his teammates does nothing but humiliate himself and alienate his teammates. If he were to keep doing that, the best thing for this team, and him, would be for him to leave. That is just how it is. Baad, You continue to blast at my remarks, which have been proven right on the nose for years, then you turn around and talk....

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8627
First of all, when SPQR uses the term "King Kobe," he says it in a deriding, debasing way. That is not being objective. That is just vitriol, well spewed. That SPQR can turn a phrase is not an issue; but wrapping spoiled catfish in golden foil can not disguise its contents. SPQR should own up to it and and admit to being "The most literate Kobe hater on the Net." That said, Kobe is averaging 22 points a game or more and a ton of assists. He is still a top ballplayer by any measure. If he were surrounded by even decent players those stats would improve. The Jim Buss created atmosphere in Lakerland is stifling. Look at Pau, once liberated. Better still, look at Kent Bazemore -- now a cog in the Atlanta machine. Kobe is a lot better than you give him credit for. You try and get 17 assists with this Bunch of Bums AT ANY AGE. Fat chance. If I were Kobe I would figure out a way to join a contender. Imagine him on the Bulls, even at his age. He deserves better than this. And don't give me the "Kobe's salary" crap. Atlanta has seemed to pick up ballers without one legit superstar. Jim Buss could watch MJ in his prime and Rudy Gay in his prime and pick Gay. That is how bad a talent judge he is. (Maybe if he went to a game...) As Charles Barkley said, "Never start a conversion with, 'There's help on the way from a 39-year-old." With these bums, Kobe never once has had the luxury of having a team-mate double teamed so he would be open. I do not know what Kobe's next move is. Playing with this desultory group must be driving him mad. Yes, he does have some age issues.....

Lakers_4_Lyfe_BayBay
votes: 40
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 5322

us.gif

BaadMaster wrote:
...

That said, Kobe is averaging 22 points a game or more and a ton of assists. He is still a top ballplayer by any measure. If he were surrounded by even decent players those stats would improve.

The Jim Buss created atmosphere in Lakerland is stifling. Look at Pau, once liberated. Better still, look at Kent Bazemore -- now a cog in the Atlanta machine.

Kobe is a lot better than you give him credit for. You try and get 17 assists with this Bunch of Bums AT ANY AGE.

Fat chance.

If I were Kobe I would figure out a way to join a contender. Imagine him on the Bulls, even at his age. He deserves better than this. And don't give me the "Kobe's salary" crap. Atlanta has seemed to pick up ballers without one legit superstar. Jim Buss could watch MJ in his prime and Rudy Gay in his prime and pick Gay. That is how bad a talent judge he is. (Maybe if he went to a game...) As Charles Barkley said, "Never start a conversion with, 'There's help on the way from a 39-year-old." With these bums, Kobe never once has had the luxury of having a team-mate double teamed so he would be open.

...

Always nice to hear from a Clipper fan derailing the Lakers team and front office. Still do not understand why you stick around at "lakers.newssurge.com" and criticize our team. This is a Lakers fan forum. Clearly you have stated on multiple occasions you are not a fan of the Lakers. It is just weird to hear a fan of another team complaining about our front office.

You say Kobe should join a contender, but he would have to be on this team for at least one more year, because of his wonder 24 mil contract for next season. No team is going to trade for that, sorry. It would deplete their respective team to try match that contract of Kobe.

Kobe is averaging 22.6 ppg, 5.7 apg, 5.6 rpg, and 1.4 spg. That is awesome for someone his age and I love the fact that he is playing awesome team ball as of late. If only he can improve his shooting percentages from the field (currently 37.2%) and from three ( 29.6% ), than it would be so much better. But so far, not bad for someone his age.

Truth is, we are not going to win a championship every year or even be contenders every year. Its unrealistic. Teams go through up and downs. Our freaking Lakers won back to back championships just a few years ago. Its real fans that stick with their team through the lows, that deserve to see the highs. Some teams rarely ever even get any highs to enjoy. So complain all you want, Clipper fan! Sorry, I just don't respect people who are supposedly a "fan" of a team, than bounces once there are a few down years.

Skyeword
votes: 68
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 7527
Location: Atlanta
us.gif
Anyone who is being honest about the future of the Lakers must consider how to handle Kobe. I have stated elsewhere that a trade to NYC would be a good move so he could pair with Melo , Fish and Phil. NYC is sinking a bit faster than LA, which is interesting in and of itself, and the Lakers are considering shutting Kobe down for the year instead? I doubt anyone would take on his contract at this point and he is no longer a draw if he's on the bench or in a lazy chair so why did they spend $24M on him? How many mistakes can one front office make? People are not artifacts that gain value with time. We turn into dust after our muscles lose their bulk and resilience so the great ones must be honest with themselves too! I respect Kobe immensely and in his own words he is now considering retirement, this season, which would forego his salary next season as I recall if it's a medical retirement Steve Nash!!!!! But what happens next? Something major must occur so Laker and Kobe devotees brace yourselves. The front office is lame, and so is Kobe, so the question is not if but when and who is wheeled out of Staples first? Don't be surprised if next season includes no Kobe and new ownership and management. This has nothing to do with Kobe's legasy other than the formaldehyde they're gonna need to preserve it if he breaks the machine again. At this point he's thinking life and kids and getting fat like Barkeley. The Kobe era has passed and I hope he preserves his legacy by not leaving on another injury or permanent skid marks....

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8627

Lakers_4_Lyfe_BayBay wrote:
...Kobe is averaging 22.6 ppg, 5.7 apg, 5.6 rpg, and 1.4 spg. That is awesome for someone his age and I love the fact that he is playing awesome team ball as of late. If only he can improve his shooting percentages from the field (currently 37.2%) and from three ( 29.6% ), than it would be so much better. But so far, not bad for someone his age....

Pretty amazing, I would say. As a Kobe fan, I reserve the right to comment on things Kobe. Especially when Kobe haters like SPQR rail on and on how Kobe now sucks and should move to New Zealand and become a sheep farmer.

And I feel that many do not give him his due for an astounding year given his age, injuries and the bums he is surrounded by. Maybe he can't get to a contender, but he should if he could.

That is it in a nutshell.

Now back to my regularly scheduled program.

Skyeword
votes: 68
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 7527
Location: Atlanta
us.gif

Lakers_4_Lyfe_BayBay wrote:
Kobe is averaging 22.6 ppg, 5.7 apg, 5.6 rpg, and 1.4 spg. That is awesome for someone his age and I love the fact that he is playing awesome team ball as of late. If only he can improve his shooting percentages from the field (currently 37.2%) and from three ( 29.6% ), than it would be so much better. But so far, not bad for someone his age.

Kobe's abilities are astounding but your post is sentimental justification. Most older guys do not get to control the team or the pace, his minutes and shot attempts. His own teammates have indirectly called him out and the tendency of the coach to defer to Kobe with no regards to themselves. His average is based on wild over-shooting and it's only since he broke the record that he has relaxed into another focus sort of. His shooting percentage is terrible because his legs are compromised by age and injury. I am pointing this out only to ask that fans keep it real rather than ONLY looking at the results and forgetting what had to occur to get there.

Tempy
votes: 51
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 12911
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
calif.gif

Skyeword wrote:
Kobe's abilities are astounding but your post is sentimental justification. Most older guys do not get to control the team or the pace, his minutes and shot attempts. His own teammates have indirectly called him out and the tendency of the coach to defer to Kobe with no regards to themselves. His average is based on wild over-shooting and it's only since he broke the record that he has relaxed into another focus sort of. His shooting percentage is terrible because his legs are compromised by age and injury. I am pointing this out only to ask that fans keep it real rather than ONLY looking at the results and forgetting what had to occur to get there.

That is not true, its the fact his team mates are so inconsistent, he was passing and getting assists all season but if your team mate misses the shot what gets noted in the assists column?

Kobe has averaged 4.8 assists through his career and has had 5 or more assists 19 times in 35 games this season. Kobe passed Jordan on Dec 14th and had 11 games of 5 or more assists from the beginning of the season to the day he passed Jordan. That would be 11 of 19 such games BEFORE he passed the record.

All Facts taken from

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2015/

Skyeword
votes: 68
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 7527
Location: Atlanta
us.gif

Tempy what do his assists have to do with my comment? I am referring to his tendency to control the game and pace and the effect that that has on the other players. You accidentally prove my point with your blind defense. I am encouraging everyone to be realistic and honest about the current state of affairs. He is contemplating shutting down the season due to an injured rotator cuff, that occurred days after contemplating that he might shut things down due to age and strain anyway? Sounds like a Pau Gasol type injury to me. It's a business folks and half of the schmooze we are being fed is quite dubious. The other half is approaching retirement so in the name of a successful Lakers future, what decision can be made now to improve the chances? This is not about Kobe at all other than his waning role in the process.

Tempy
votes: 51
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 12911
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
calif.gif

Skyeword wrote:
Tempy what do his assists have to do with my comment? I am referring to his tendency to control the game and pace and the effect that that has on the other players. You accidentally prove my point with your blind defense. I am encouraging everyone to be realistic and honest about the current state of affairs. He is contemplating shutting down the season due to an injured rotator cuff, that occurred days after contemplating that he might shut things down due to age and strain anyway? Sounds like a Pau Gasol type injury to me. It's a business folks and half of the schmooze we are being fed is quite dubious. The other half is approaching retirement so in the name of a successful Lakers future, what decision can be made now to improve the chances? This is not about Kobe at all other than his waning role in the process.

you said "His average is based on wild over-shooting ", he was still passing the ball. Who else would you prefer control the game for the lakers, Boozo? Lin? Price? The team severely lacks talent so they have no choice but for kobe to control the game. You can say we should play teamball but you know as just well as I do that this roster sucks and is not even capable of such a thing.

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8627

Skyeword wrote:
Kobe's abilities are astounding but your post is sentimental justification...

Peeking in: Gimme a friggin' break. If Kobe had to do it all over again, he should have done a Pau and landed with some ballers. Look at what it has done for "Gasoft." ALL FRIGGIN STAR!!! And only two years younger. (Of course, D'Antoni never used him so that worked out in an odd way.)

As lucky as Kobe was to have Shaq, the luck averaged out and he wound up with D'Antoni who single handedly ruined Kobe's end game. Maybe.

Kobe, with his bunch of bums, was leading the NBA in scoring. Can you do that? Can any one of the five hundred or so NBA players do that other than the Beard?

I am rooting for Kobe to rehab after surgery and somehow do a Pau and wind up with players of his caliber. I want him to prove you all wrong.

Surely he cannot defeat Father Time; but Bernard Hopkins, in a rougher sport, kept him at bay for over a decade.

Kobe will do the same I assure all you Kobe haters.

LakerFanGolfer
votes: 8
Laker GM
Posts: 3075
Location: Philippines
rp.gif

Nothing changes. When the Lakers were winning. SPQR hated on Bryant and wanted his Bynum to take the reigns. Just admit it. you hate Kobe.

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
us.gif

BaadMaster wrote:
Peeking in: Gimme a friggin' break. If Kobe had to do it all over again, he should have done a Pau and landed with some ballers. Look at what it has done for "Gasoft." ALL FRIGGIN STAR!!! And only two years younger. (Of course, D'Antoni never used him so that worked out in an odd way.)

As lucky as Kobe was to have Shaq, the luck averaged out and he wound up with D'Antoni who single handedly ruined Kobe's end game. Maybe.

Kobe, with his bunch of bums, was leading the NBA in scoring. Can you do that? Can any one of the five hundred or so NBA players do that other than the Beard?

I am rooting for Kobe to rehab after surgery and somehow do a Pau and wind up with players of his caliber. I want him to prove you all wrong.

Surely he cannot defeat Father Time; but Bernard Hopkins, in a rougher sport, kept him at bay for over a decade.

Kobe will do the same I assure all you Kobe haters.

Clearly we have some misconceptions here. There are fans of the game of basketball, Lakers fans and Kobe fans. I'm a fan of all three and you're a fan of one. Kobe may have been leading the league in scoring for a brief time , however he led the league with 22.4 shot attempts per game. You make half of those shots and you're already at 22 points per game, he was averaging 25 I believe. Can you honestly brag about that? A guy who averages 22 shots to average 25 points at 37% shooting. That's bad basketball, fans of the actual game realize that and won't brag about that. Fans of the Lakers probably would brag about that but this fan will not. Fans of Kobe love to see Kobe's name at the top of the scoring list but it's not great when it takes so many shots to do that at an absolutely terrible percentage for a shooting guard.

You can fault Mitch and Jim for this. It's an absolute shame when they want to build an offense or a team around a 36 year old. You put Kobe on a team like Atlanta and have him play team ball then you're looking at a more efficient guy. This is so etching I believe West would have done if he was in charge. He knows the toll it takes on a body and this team would have looked better possibly.

You guys can complain about these guys being bums all you want but these guys are nba players. These guys aren't all completely lost, it's a bad mix.

Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, Wayne Ellington, Nick Young, and other have shown they can play. It's just a terrible mix of guys. This team has been assembled as if it's pickup basketball and two guys were taking turns picking their team respective teams. There can't be any defined roles with a team like this.

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
us.gif

LakerFanGolfer wrote:
Nothing changes. When the Lakers were winning. SPQR hated on Bryant and wanted his Bynum to take the reigns. Just admit it. you hate Kobe.

I don't feel some of you guys look at the whole picture. When Bryant had two seven footers, Lamar odom, a nice bench, he still fired up over 21 shots a game. He still posted up which eliminated the effectiveness of the seven footers. We kept saying play smart, play inside-out ball. Why take the ball out of Gasol and Bynum's hands in the second half just because it's the second half? Kobe refused to change for anyone except his battered body. Yeah,I know you guys will say it brought five rings to LA. LA possibly could have had more than those five rings if he played better team ball. Look at some of the players Bryant has had on his team. I still contend that LA could have beat Boston in 2008 if Bryant played off the ball more. I'm not putting the series loss on him but Boston's defense was shifting towards the black mamba every time he held the ball. They wouldn't have been able to do that if he was moving without the ball. Phil was outcoached, LA was less physical and the games were still fairly close until Boston started getting several stops and LA couldn't do the same.

LakerFanGolfer
votes: 8
Laker GM
Posts: 3075
Location: Philippines
rp.gif

There is a difference between being critical and hating. You and SPQR hated Kobe for years while others criticised. We criticize Kobe as well. Members of the forum knows basketball as well and we recognize Kobe's flaws. SPQR has countless statements about how Kobe is such a bad player. WE GET IT ALREADY. Damn fed up reading the same thing over and over again. Been a member since 2007 and drifted away from the forum because the moderators themselves hates on the franchise player. Now to visit the page and see the same thing is just stupid. WE GET IT YOU GUYS HATE KOBE. Move on.

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
us.gif

LakerFanGolfer wrote:
There is a difference between being critical and hating. You and SPQR hated Kobe for years while others criticised. We criticize Kobe as well. Members of the forum knows basketball as well and we recognize Kobe's flaws. SPQR has countless statements about how Kobe is such a bad player. WE GET IT ALREADY. Damn fed up reading the same thing over and over again. Been a member since 2007 and drifted away from the forum because the moderators themselves hates on the franchise player. Now to visit the page and see the same thing is just stupid. WE GET IT YOU GUYS HATE KOBE. Move on. http://lakers. .com/images/go-to-quoted-post-arrow.png

I have a better idea, stop getting upset and contribute different things to the forum. I've noticed plenty of complaints but a lot of you aren't even willing to be part of the solution. People are entitled to their opinions but I just don't recall you starting any threads that are part of the solution. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

None of my comments about Kobe have been hate-filled. They're comments that are legit and it's what he's known for. He shoots a lot, freezes out teammates, plays free safety and so on. These aren't things that are new, these are things I've harped on like everyone else. If you were here in 2007 then you'd know I was one of Kobe's biggest supporters until the Lakers acquired Gasol, Bynum developed and we still saw Kobe jack up forced shot after forced shot. That's not hating chief, it's just not good basketball on a talented team. Kobe had the skills to easily shoot over 50%, his career 45% wasn't bad at all but hey you understand basketball like you mentioned so you surely realize that.

The issue you have is when people keep up the criticism. I criticize what I see and we saw it quite often, even at the beginning of the season Kobe did the same thing but at a much lower level of play.

TheInfamous55
votes: 12
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 1488

An argument of two worlds to what we'll never know if what if... We can criticize Kobe and tell it like it is or pretend as if today, with all accomplishments, wouldn't be if Kobe wasn't being Kobe.

All in all it has been boring for sometime now. No matter how you shine a light on it. Problem is this site thrives on Kobe. Without Kobe, this site wouldn't be so top with very little buzz if any. I challenge all of you to have a presence here without mentioning Kobe. I'd like to say "let's just shut up about Kobe.." But I know I can't ask that. I can do other things than post nonsense but let's all agree to disagree that this is all nonsense and perhaps we all need to be on a TopBuzz diet until things develop that is worth nonsensing about.

Sorry for the rant... I'm a disgruntled yet devoted Laker fan. Just waiting for my turn to get a haircut and anxin because I got a fight tomorrow.

Keep your hopes up Lakerland. Lakers are bigger than Kobe and I believe we need to get past it all. I'm so ready for them (Lakers) to move on.

Tempy
votes: 51
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 12911
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
calif.gif

gemfow wrote:

You guys can complain about these guys being bums all you want but these guys are nba players. These guys aren't all completely lost, it's a bad mix.

Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, Wayne Ellington, Nick Young, and other have shown they can play. It's just a terrible mix of guys. This team has been assembled as if it's pickup basketball and two guys were taking turns picking their team respective teams. There can't be any defined roles with a team like this.

Yes Hill, Davis, Ellington, And Young can all play, but the next night they suck. They are so inconsistent. You never know any night what we are going to get. You can throw Boozo and Lin in here as well. When 2 or 3 are on we generally win. Go look at the games we have won and see how many points 2 or 3 of them put up.

Yes they are NBA players but not in the tier we need. You have a tier of super stars, a tier of all stars, a tier of 6th/7th men, a tier of upcoming rookies, a tier of specialists and then you have the tier of roster fillers. We can without doubt say that no player you mentioned are in the top tiers.

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
us.gif

Tempy wrote:
Yes Hill, Davis, Ellington, And Young can all play, but the next night they suck. They are so inconsistent. You never know any night what we are going to get. You can throw Boozo and Lin in here as well. When 2 or 3 are on we generally win. Go look at the games we have won and see how many points 2 or 3 of them put up.

Yes they are NBA players but not in the tier we need. You have a tier of super stars, a tier of all stars, a tier of 6th/7th men, a tier of upcoming rookies, a tier of specialists and then you have the tier of roster fillers. We can without doubt say that no player you mentioned are in the top tiers.

That's the life of an NBA role player. Role players tend to be inconsistent, usually on offense. They usually play better at home. You also have the role players who are pretty much starting caliber players coming off the bench. The difference that separates stars and role guys is consistency.

If the FO or fans thinks that we can depend on cheap role guys to provide wins then they should think twice. I love what teams like Atlanta, GS, SA and Dallas are doing. It's not about having some two superstars and filling out the roster with ring chasers or cheap one-dimensional players. They have some guys who can play.

SPQR
votes: 291
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 9286
Location: Pennsylvania
Baad, When I use the term King Kobe, I mean it as it is. I have used that term in many posts regarding Kobe, both when I praised him and criticized him. I use that term because Kobe, of all the players I have seen, is King. His talent made him a King in his prime when he could toy with opponents at will, the way he physically and mentally dominated foes; also the way he controlled the way this team functioned, both on the court and with player and front office moves. In the world of sports, Kobe is as much a king as any player, in any sport I have ever seen. It is also alliterative, which never hurts, but in using it, it has to be true, which in his case it is. As for you telling me what I mean by using King Kobe?? Seriously? Half the time you don't seem to know what you mean, you vacillate and equivocate so much in your opinions over time over so many issues that I could swear there were three or four of you all posting from the Baadmaster account. That is how many times you have flip flopped on Lakers issues. And to go even further, you pretend to be a die hard Lakers fan then pretend to become a die hard Clippers fan - a team you used to rip and make fun of when the Lakers were winning titles - when things go bad here and good over there? And if the Clippers fail, then what, a quick jump up the coast to the Golden State bandwagon? How about that Steph Curry, huh? Shouldn't you try to figure out what you are, what you are trying to say over all these years, develop some modicum of....

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8627

Aside: In one area SPQR and I can agree: "If I were a Cav's fan I would have been against trading Wiggins for Love."

That had to have been the dumbest recent trade I ever saw. Trade a no-D, injury prone guy with inflated stats for the next Kobe? I guess that is why LeBron will never be a great GM.

kkennon1
votes: 23
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 14360
Location: Phoenix, AZ
us.gif

Nick young, aka swaggy P was interviewed after practice today and when asked what should lakers do with Kobe out, he replied " just give me the ball and get out my way". Didn't know Nick was a resident of fantasy island.


Options Quick Reply: RE: Lakers Palace Guard Stages Coup Against King Kobe
register
You are an anonymous user- or .
Quote the last message
Attach signature (signatures can be changed in profile)
Notify me when a reply is posted
Don't Check Spelling
Note: Twitter & Youtube BBCODE Tags are no longer necessary. The system will automatically convert links to tweets & youtube videos.
   


   
   
register
You are an anonymous user- Register now or Log in Now!