Lakers Palace Guard Stages Coup Against King Kobe

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SPQR
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A couple of interesting articles in the last few days about the Lakers and nightmare ride King Kobe is forcing upon the team, the fans and his "teammates" and I use that term lightly, looking at if through King Kobe's eyes.

The first is entitled: The Lakers don't need Kobe and now they have the guts to say it.

Yes, things have devolved so much under the great man's leadership that even this team of all stars is calling him out. The breaking point was the Warriors game where the team had seven players in double digits and a season high in assists. Oh, and the one thing they didn't have was the Mamba jacking up his allotted shots and "directing" the "team" as he does with such verve, skill and aplomb.

The comments after were ugly and signified the palace guard now getting the guts to finally stage a coup against the ossified ego fossil that masquerades as a leader and great player in the year 2014 as he puts himself and only himself in front of everything, including team, organization, fans and even his ever deteriorating legacy as he is now showing himself for what he is. The very epitome of selfish, venal greed and self aggrandizement.

Nick Young, no shrinking violet has taken the lead in speaking out and is putting it right in Kobe's face, where it belongs.

For those who feel bad about what is happening, don't bother. Kobe brought this on himself. This is just the accumulation of years of crap he forced teammates through on the court. Turn around is fair play and now as the ancient ego of the ages makes a fool of himself on the court and with his team and does the very best to destroy this squad on every level, he is well deserving of everything he gets. He earned it. Over a long time. And no more than during this season. And man, considering his track record the last five or six years, that is saying a lot. I mean what does it take to make Steve Nash describe you as a f*cking *sshole? Don't know, ask Kobe. He knows.

Here is the article of how finally, belatedly, the Lakers players are saying what they, and management should have been saying long ago.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/los-ang ... e-warriors

The second article is about a come to Jesus talk Coach Scott has now had with King Kobe. In it he talked to the dear dictator of destruction (not our opponents, like it used to be so long ago, but now our destruction) about playing less minutes, sitting games out and �oh�my� god�deferring more to teammates! Yes, deferring more to teammates, in the game of basketball no less!! Who ever heard of such a thing? Certainly not Kobe. Especially when things have been going so well this season. I mean why change up on a good thing? A good thing like�Kobe?

Not surprisingly, Kobe to use Scotts words, "did not embrace the concept." I'm sure embracing it was about the last thing Kobe thought of when he heard that crap. Obviously the Mamba wouldn't willingly embrace it, not when the prospect of duplicating our 9-19 record. Surely 18-38 is goal worthy of any team with a leader like Kobe. Why would he willingly embrace change? Not a leader like Mamba. When things are going well, why change up? Trust him, he knows what he is doing.

But after putting Kobe over his knees, giving him a little spanking on his behind, then making nice, drying his tears giving him a some skittles with kool-aid, he tucked Mamba into bed with is favorite cartoon blankly and stuffed Michael Jordan doll. As he sucked on his pacifier, Kobe promised to be good and de�de�.de�def..e..e.. um, well he couldn't say the word, but he says he will try to do it. You know, the D word, with his teammates.

I have news for Kobe, if he doesn't defer, if he doesn't do what is right, try and salvage what can be, attempt to make this a team, what his coach and teammates know is correct, this situation is going to get worse, become explosive and he is not going to like what happens. The question is, how much humiliation is Kobe willing to take to force his agenda?

Here is that article.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/fantasy/fanta ... ng-forward

So here we are, with Kobe Bryant, getting balled out by teammates who will never sniff a tenth of his former greatness. And what makes it really bad, is these teammates, who just want to play basketball and not stand around and watch mummy ball..er I mean Kobe ball, are one hundred percent correct.

No, this can't be a great team. Not even a very good one. Or even a playoff team. But one thing it can be is a team. It's what they all want. It's how you get through a tough year. Be a team, play as a team. It's what gets you through a year where you know nothing exceptional will happen. It's where you extract some joy and fun of the game. You know, being a team. They all know this. Except for the "leader". A bloated, sickening, parasite feeding its insatiable ego on the misery he creates for the others as he does his thing all by himself. A sorry, caricature of a once great player whose most facile gift in his waning days is an unsurpassed ability to destroy any and all semblance of happiness on those unfortunate enough to be along for the hard ride. You know, his teammates. The "other" guys in uniform.

What an end to a career. And the most telling point about that is this point: who really doesn't want it come to an end as fast as possible, not just fans who want to move on from this quagmire that seems to go on forever, but also his teammates? How far has he brought us when players like Nick Young and Wayne (who?) Ellington are calling it out. This isn't hall of famer Nash now. It's Young and Ellington. That says it all. Has any player that great ever gone out like this before? And has any earned it more assiduously with more true effort than Kobe has?

Shaq
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SPQR, you sound a lot biased with your arguments

BaadMaster
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No doubt, SPQR, you can write. But to use your skills to spew unrelenting hate-laced venom is sickening. If I came here from another planet, I would conclude Kobe stole your wife and sold your daughters into slavery. Only acts of this negative magnitude could inspire such venal verbiage.

(long pause) Did he?

LakerZip
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From my perspective, this is the necessary dialogue that our team needs to have. Kobe will be traded sooner, rather than later. He won't be happy and neither will the team. There's no gracious way out of this mess. Kobe can't play with the Lakers until his last ball goes up. That will bring this team down, and he will have another 45 years of play, if you leave it up to him. So how does he bow out? There are other teams in the league who are competitive, where he can potentially win another ring. But not here. The logical move is for him to leave to another team. Both Kobe and the team need a break from each other, as evidenced by the last game - Kobe was gone, and we killed the No. 1 team in the league. No excuses - just good old fashioned basketball. So what can we get in trade for Kobe? How many players can we get who can score without hogging the ball. Guys who can play defense. Guys who would inspire players to come play with them here. It's a hard pill to swallow, but it appears that Kobe will be in a difficult position for the rest of this season - his guys have called him out and there's no way he can make that go away or make them happy. I predict that he will bolt to another venue, where he can compete for a ring (at least in his mind.) It also gives him a way out from having to deal with Swaggy P and the guys who have proven to everyone that they can really play if they get the ball. Winning a championship is not going to....

userpete1037
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We also beat the Spurs, Hawks, Raptors and Rockets with Kobe if we want to keep everything in perspective. Kobe's going nowhere. I'll believe that when I see that. I've seen where many people say we should trade Kobe so lets just say Kobe waives his no trade clause, at 36 what will a team give us? I'm quite sure we want young assets or draft picks. I don't see that happening. I heard trade him to NY so if that's a possibility, I personally would want Iman Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. etc and I'm quite sure PJ ain't doing that for Kobe. I would like to hear more trade possibilities if Kobe waived his no trade clause but IMO, we're stuck with him until his contract expires.

BaadMaster
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This whole drama is incredibly riveting; pardon me if I overstep my limited "peeking in" welcome. But we are talking Kobe here, not Lakers -- and I think I am allowed that freedom.

One of my fave movies is "The Bounty" with a young Mel Gibson and Liam Neeson in the lead roles. It is a fact-based movie, based on the only successful mutiny of a British 18th century ship, the HMS Bounty. Once Fletcher Christian (Gibson), leader of the mutineers, takes over the ship there is no turning back. Similarly, for Swaggy P, looking ever the part of a mutineer, there is no turning back. Unfortunately for Kobe, he is -- like the Bounty's Captain Bligh -- past his prime. And he is no match for the younger, adrenaline-fueled mutineers.

I am a big Kobe fan; but I am not blind to his blindness. He should have changed his approach once his shooting percentage went south of 40%. Still, after two major surgeries and a gazillion miles on his body, he was leading the NBA in scoring, not an easy feat no matter what.

I do think Swaggy P, with his superstar gf, is also a bit full of himself too. Considering that he would not be making forty cents if people like MJ, Kobe, Shaq and the like didn't pave the way for his overpaid a**, a little respect for a guy with seven Finals appearances would be in order. He is not exactly DJango. Swaggy might be more full of himself than Kobe based upon Nick Young's paltry basketball accomplishments compared to the Mamba's.

Interesting that in The Bounty, both the mutineers and the loyalists both came to a bad end.

I think that is what might happen here.

LakerZip
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Yo ho, Yo ho, a pirate's life for me!

TheInfamous55
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People here get so butt-hurt. It is what it is and even more so. Kobe is just not the same player that can back up the attitude he dishes. Even before a Laker, Kobe carried himself in such an entitled way. Which I never had a problem with... Till now. If he's not playing up to the level of "Five Champinoship"-Guy, then why should his attitude of invincibility remain? Through interviews he seems to acknowledge his declination of his abilities on court but yet doesn't allow himself to adjust for them. That just tells me he's being stubborn and like always - selfish. I don't want to restate what I've said in other thread but shortly put, jabs on Kobe's selfishness has been made ever since he came to the league. Ever wonder why B Scott calls him Showboat? And as I've said, call us haters but not cause we hate Kobe but because we hate what is happening to our franchise player.... even more so what's happening to our franchise. If not soon enough, Kobe must learn how to pass the guard before he leaves this game in the most painful way. It just kills me to see him deteriorate and tarnish his legacy going out guns blazing. Unfortunately so that now he's becoming blood in the water for the younger studs in he league. Nobody fears Kobe anymore. On the endnote, Kobe should never be traded and to fathom the idea is selfish. Tolerate it or not we have to suck it up and hope that Kobe retires a Laker. Leave that "trade our busted/has been player" to the small market teams for Kobe is a Laker for life. Like it or not, you as spoiled fans owe him that accomplishment that not many (of his caliber) has ever accomplished. Take....

Tempy
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We win 1 game with out kobe and people are spewing this crap that we don't need him. Tomorrow when we lose its all going to be Kobe's fault right?

PurpleKnight
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When superstars get injured their teammates tend to step up their game in their absence. And that is what happened against Golden State. On top of that the opponent doesn't know just how to defend a team with their superstar M.I.A. It throws the basketball World off. We won. Cool. I was happy. But I also understand that it's just ONE LOUSY GAME! We still suck. If this squad won a Championship without Kobe I could understand some of these posts. But with or without Kobe we ain't winning a Chapionship, We ain't making the playoffs.

And Kobe's teammates aren't turning on him. They love and support him. They know that he's the best player on the team. And that they need him to be successful. Swaggy P is always effing around. So don't take what he says literally. Jeremy said it best when he said that " It's the teams responsibilty to fit in with Kobe". Did you he didn't say it's Kobe's job to fit in with the team?

In saying that I do want Kobe to facilitate more than he does. He needs to trust his teamates and they need to trust him more.

jrdogg29
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The Kobe we once saw as a 18 year old is no more .the great player is a shell of himself.39 year old giving his all.the bashers on this site will continue to spew poison at him no matter what.winning without him against GS was an aberration. He has surpassed #23 no catching the next guy.living legend fading out..never hate on greatness no matter who it is especially Lakers

Shaq
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Last year the same players much or less had the worst record of the last decades for Lakers. Kobe missed the whole year. How can you be so blind to support that Kobe is the sole reason we are losing this year?

LakerZip
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Kobe is an easy target. He's the guy who gets double teamed every time he handles the ball - not Swaggy P or any of the other guys on the floor.

Bryant is still a Superstar with superior talent. He also knows his limitations, too. But everyone can see the end of his career coming right around the corner - even if based solely on his chronological age.

Several questions come to mind:

  1. Can Kobe arrange a trade to a competitive team, for his own personal benefit (getting more rings to beat Jordan there, too!)?

  2. Would the Lakers go along with that trade, since they have nobody on the floor right now(and Kobe's salary would free up so much cash that they could score some big name players)?

  3. Is Kobe's "Legacy" in Lakerland dependent on his staying a Laker for another few years?

  4. Does anyone really think that Kobe will retire after the end of next season?

  5. How will Kobe's aging play over the next 4-5 years impact the team's record and competitiveness?

None of us can answer any of these questions right now, but they hold the key to how Kobe's last act will play out.

There is no denying that Kobe has had one of the biggest impacts of any player in the league, and on the Lakers. His records and our memories of his fabulous plays will always remain with us, like those of Kareem, West, Baylor, and other Laker Greats.

lakedson
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PurpleKnight wrote:
When superstars get injured their teammates tend to step up their game in their absence. And that is what happened against Golden State. On top of that the opponent doesn't know just how to defend a team with their superstar M.I.A. It throws the basketball World off. We won. Cool. I was happy. But I also understand that it's just ONE LOUSY GAME! We still suck. If this squad won a Championship without Kobe I could understand some of these posts. But with or without Kobe we ain't winning a Chapionship, We ain't making the playoffs.

And Kobe's teammates aren't turning on him. They love and support him. They know that he's the best player on the team. And that they need him to be successful. Swaggy P is always effing around. So don't take what he says literally. Jeremy said it best when he said that " It's the teams responsibilty to fit in with Kobe". Did you he didn't say it's Kobe's job to fit in with the team?

In saying that I do want Kobe to facilitate more than he does. He needs to trust his teamates and they need to trust him more.

I guess your last point is more of a question rather than a statement.... Will Kobe facilitate? He did that once or twice this year but he cannot/will not/doesn't/don't want to do it in a consistent basis, that is just his nature...He will shoot his way to win or lose.... Now will he learn to accept that he needs to be more of a facilitator than a scorer? That Is a question he answered in his action time again, he doesn't want too....

BaadMaster
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This will be my last pronouncement on this topic; time to drive out for Christmas with my family.

QUESTION (to all of you): name any modern era (where the money is astronomical) superstar athlete who ended his career gracefully, on top and not being dragged off the stage kicking and screaming? (Other than career-ending injury, of course.)

Favre? MJ? Ali? Montana? Namath? Shaq? Tyson? Holyfield? Nash? Pele? The list is virtually endless.

I can think of only one: Ray Lewis (and he is not up there with MJ or Kobe) -- but he had to exit gracefully as he had that m*rd*r accusation and could not afford any more negative ink if he wanted to continue on as an announcer. So this is an atypical situation.

"The End" of a great athlete will always be depressing and unnverving. That is the price of admission for having a great athlete lead your team to victory.

That being said, my problem is those of you who don't accept this as the natural end and get into hate mode -- conveniently forgetting that Kobe gave you sixteen years of instant contention.

As has been said many times, Father Time is undefeated.

I am sad that Kobe could not knock him out for a couple of years.

I am also sad that all of you -- including the press and Lakers players/mutineers -- could not give him half a season to see if he could do the impossible. Could it kill ya'll -- Swaggy included -- to give him fifty games to see if he could shoot better than 40%.

It's not as though without Kobe this team wins it all.

The way all of you treat the Mamba, having a statistically bad year for thirty games, you would think he betrayed his country. He shot a lot. Big deal. He missed a lot. Big deal. He sat out a game and the Lakers fluked out a win. Big deal.

Kobe deserves better than this after all he delivered over the years. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

SuperNutz
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This is some of the most short sight sh!t I have every read, after one decent game? Did you even watch the game? Does Golden State look like they're here for the Lakers ?

NO they are here for the clippers. The Lakers game were just practice for them.

Tempy
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Ok challenge accepted. I present Barry Sanders (NFL). Eric Cantona (Manchester United, Premeir League).Since you said Ali I think I can include Sandy Koufax. (MLB) Mark Spitz (swimming), Bjorn Borg (Tennis) Robert Smith (NFL).

BaadMaster
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Tempy wrote:
Ok challenge accepted. I present Barry Sanders (NFL). Eric Cantona (Manchester United, Premeir League). Since you said Ali I think I can include Sandy Koufax. (MLB) Mark Spitz (swimming), Bjorn Borg (Tennis) Robert Smith (NFL).

Barry Sanders: not up there with MJ as a superstar...no rings...plus he retired, I think, in the middle of his career...I am talking about super-duper-amazo-legendary athletes who get to the endgame...

Eric Cantona: I am not familiar with him (I am not a soccer fan) but he is not up there with Pele in terms of International fame....

Sandy Koufax: Injury (I already said that as an exception)...

Spitz: came back and was terrible the Olympics after he won all those Gold Medals...Michael Phelps seems to be supporting my argument too....

Bjorn Borg: As I recall he tried to make an abortive comeback but I could be wrong....

Robert Smith: ask the average fan who he is...not famous enough...

Regardless, if you have to go to Robert Smith (not exactly a household name) you just buttress my argument...

I think your list (without anyone nearly as famous as Ali) just supports my thesis...

I am open to challenge...try again....

Tempy
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Regarding the Lakers winning this game I would just like to throw some stuff out there.

EVERY nba team plays worse on the road than at home. (Lakers were home)

Since the beginning of the 2001 season away teams have won a mere 40% of NBA games

GS was playing the second game of a back to back schedule.

GS shot the ball at 46.4% and 46.2% from 3. For the season GS are shooting 48.1%, 37.5% from 3.

Lakers shot the ball at 51.7% and 46.2% from 3, For the season the lakers are shooting 43.8% and 34.8% from 3.

So the lakers % jumped significantly without Kobe so lets look at why.

Ronnie Price 6 for 10, good for 60% the 6th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 33.9%

Wes Johnson 5 for 10 good for 50% the 10th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 42.8%

Wayne Ellington 5 for 9 good for 55.6% the 13th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 47.5%

Ed Davis 7 for 7 good for 100% Davis has only shot below 50% in 6 Games! Shooting a season average 65%

Carlos Boozer 8 for 11 good for 72.7% the 15th time this season he has shot above 50% Shooting a season average 51.3%

Excluding Davis, 4 inconsistent players happened to have a good night shooting the ball. Just to prove a point in every laker win except when we beat the rockets and Kings, another player other than kobe has scored 20+ points, Hornets it was Lin, Atlanta it was Boozer, Toronto it was Young, Pistons it was Hill, Spurs it was Young, Twolves it was Boozer.

Interestingly against the rockets and kings Kobe dropped 29 and 32 points respectively. Making up for the fall off from those other superstars he plays with.........

In conclusion, yes Kobe still maintains his horrible shot selection and is almost through his brick laying apprenticeship but take a look at the inconsistent team mates he is playing with. As I have stated in other posts the team does have some talent but severely lacks consistency.

LakerZip
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BaadMaster wrote:
.. .. my problem is those of you who don't accept this as the natural end and get into hate mode -- conveniently forgetting that Kobe gave you sixteen years of instant contention.

As has been said many times, Father Time is undefeated.

I am sad that Kobe could not knock him out for a couple of years.

I am also sad that all of you -- including the press and Lakers players/mutineers -- could not give him half a season to see if he could do the impossible. Could it kill ya'll -- Swaggy included -- to give him fifty games to see if he could shoot better than 40%.

It's not as though without Kobe this team wins it all.

The way all of you treat the Mamba, having a statistically bad year for thirty games, you would think he betrayed his country. He shot a lot. Big deal. He missed a lot. Big deal. He sat out a game and the Lakers fluked out a win. Big deal.

Kobe deserves better than this after all he delivered over the years. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

No question that Kobe is a legend. The real question is = Do you hold Kobe responsible for taking all of the cash put down in front of him before this season began, knowing that by doing so he was short shifting the rest of the team's talent - due to the draconian spending caps that teams are now subjected to? Some of the fans hold Kobe responsible for taking all of that cash, leaving the team without any talent, and losers. The outcome was determined by his greed. Guys who compromised on their maximum earnings (like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade did) won their rings, because the team could afford to bring in additional talent. Kobe knew what he created when he agreed to take the money. I think that's why Lakers fans have such a short fuse when it comes to Kobe's contract(s).

He took the cash, while we are stuck watching drek.

Tempy
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BaadMaster wrote:
Barry Sanders: not up there with MJ as a superstar...no rings...plus he retired, I think, in the middle of his career...I am talking about super-duper-amazo-legendary athletes who get to the endgame...

Eric Cantona: I am not familiar with him (I am not a soccer fan) but he is not up there with Pele in terms of International fame....

Sandy Koufax: Injury (I already said that as an exception)...

Spitz: came back and was terrible the Olympics after he won all those Gold Medals...Michael Phelps seems to be supporting my argument too....

Bjorn Borg: As I recall he tried to make an abortive comeback but I could be wrong....

Robert Smith: ask the average fan who he is...not famous enough...

Regardless, if you have to go to Robert Smith (not exactly a household name) you just buttress my argument...

I think your list (without anyone nearly as famous as Ali) just supports my thesis...

I am open to challenge...try again....

Barry Sanders averaged over 1500 yards per season and retired 1457 yards short of the all time record. I guess being 3rd all time in the history of the NFL doesn't make you a superstar.

Eric Cantona: ask the average englishman who lebron james is and they won't have a clue. Not enough international fame I guess. Interestingly enough when FIFA asked Pele to create a list in 2004 of the 100 greatest living players Eric Cantona was on that list.

Spitz competed in TWO olympics and won 9 gold medals. He retired when he was 22 and made a "comeback" when he was 41. Really? Your surprised he failed?

Bjorg retired when he was 26 again like Spitz made a "comeback" aged 35.

OK how about Rocky Marciano, John Elway, Jim Brown, Ken Dryden

However your thesis is still flawed. Most athletes retire from career ending injuries. Is it rare that an athlete steps down in his prime? Of course it is, that is when he is going to get paid the most money!

BaadMaster
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Tempy wrote:
... Is it rare that an athlete steps down in his prime? Of course it is, that is when he is going to get paid the most money!

You just made my point. And Kobe's. Why should we expect him to quit?

In any event, all the Kobe haters are going to miss him when he is gone.

Addendum: to blame Kobe for this team is insane. Trading four draft picks, getting nothing for D12 and Pau and lousy draft picks -- that had nothing to do with it? 'Nuff said.

Tempy
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BaadMaster wrote:
You just made my point. And Kobe's. Why should we expect him to quit?

In any event, all the Kobe haters are going to miss him when he is gone.

Addendum: to blame Kobe for this team is insane. Trading four draft picks, getting nothing for D12 and Pau and lousy draft picks -- that had nothing to do with it? 'Nuff said.

Teams were not going to give up much for D12 or Pau, running the risk of getting a player on a 4 month rental. We still didn't lose out on the D12 trade. We don't make the trade and get stuck with Bynums knee's?

Can you name any of the players that the suns got with the draft picks from the Lakers?

Lets see. Archie Goodwin. Who? Exactly. The second round pick, oh the irony. The Suns traded the rights to Robin Lopez (who wanted to leave for a starting position anyway), the contract of Hakim Warrick and the Lakers' second rounder in a three-way deal that netted Wesley Johnson and a more-heavily-than-we-thought protected first round pick.

The other second round pick? Alex Oriakhi.

The only pick that will turn into anything is the remaining 1st round pick.

Yeah it will suck if it ends up being this years pick but can we get over this Nash for 4 picks trade.

BaadMaster
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Tempy wrote:
Teams were not going to give up much for D12 or Pau, running the risk of getting a player on a 4 month rental...

Sign and trade? Duh.

Tempy
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BaadMaster wrote:
Sign and trade? Duh.

Ok so what exactly were the rockets or bulls going to offer? Were they going to trade good assets so we could still be contenders?? You realize the bulls were offering Boozer right?

gemfow
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SPQR: brought up some great points like usual. It's a little more harsh than I would be but bottom line, I'm tired of the Kobe act. He doesn't even run the offense and anything called for him is isolating him in the post. No a lakers' player would say anything if Kobe is averaging 25 points on 47-50% shooting. Kobe is shooting 37%, that's a little over 3 shots made out of every 10, which means we get treated to a lot of 7-20 games. Why should teammates watch him get the ball as much as he does and it will yield low results.

Kobe passes when he's doubled, that's fantastic. However the smart teams don't even double him, they let him shoot his low percentage shots over a single defender. If it wasn't for Jordan Hill and Ed Davis getting offensive rebounds, this team would be getting blown out nightly.

Kobe's leadership is atrocious. To sit up there and just bad mouth teammates when he does attend practice is crazy. Kobe hasn't played too well all season, he's shot over 50% probably once. There are more specs to the game than shooting well but even those other aspects of his game are just poor. The ball shouldn't be in his hands as much as it is and his minutes should be down. However Kobe will find a way to still average over 20 shots with reduced minutes, he's done it before under Phil Jackson.

Kobe IMO should retire a Laker unless he wants to move on. I just would like to see a change in attitude that matches his change in game. This may not be the most talented team but these guys shouldn't have to watch a36 year old shooting guard fail at trying to bail them out.

Scott disappoints me as a coach. He said the following:

Scott said Bryant's fatigue and recent "inefficient play" prompted the reevaluation, according to the paper.

Recent inefficient play? He's been inefficient all season. Why play him 35 minutes a game when he's 36 with high mileage? Absolutely crazy.

Tempy
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gemfow wrote:
SPQR: brought up some great points like usual. It's a little more hasty than I would be but bottom line, I'm tired of the Kobe act. He doesn't even run the offense and anything called for him is isolating him in the post. No a lakers' player would say anything if Kobe is averaging 25 points on 47-50% shooting. Kobe is shooting 37%, that's a little over 3 shots made out of every 10, which means we get treated to a lot of 7-20 games. Why should teammates watch him get the ball as much as he does and it will yield low results.

Kobe passes when he's doubled, that's fantastic. However the smart teams don't even double him, they let him shoot his low percentage shots over a single defender. If it wasn't for Jordan Hill and Ed Davis getting offensive rebounds, this team would be getting blown out nightly.

Kobe's leadership is atrocious. To sit up there and just bad mouth teammates when he does attend practice is crazy. Kobe hasn't played too well all season, he's shot over 50% probably once. There are more specs to the game than shooting well but even those other aspects of his game are just poor. The ball shouldn't be in his hands as much as it is and his minutes should be down. However Kobe will find a way to still average over 20 shots with reduced minutes, he's done it before under Phil Jackson.

Scott disappoints me as a coach. He said the following:

Scott said Bryant's fatigue and recent "inefficient play" prompted the reevaluation, according to the paper.

Recent inefficient play? He's been inefficient all season. Why play him 35 minutes a game when he's 36 with high mileage? Absolutely crazy.

So if the ball is not in Kobe's hands who exactly do you want in. Not one player (Ed Davis excluded) has been consistent all season long. Lin? Young? Boozer? I find it comical that people are bashing kobe after he hasn't played ball in 18 months. Think about that for a second. I stated in many posts Kobe wasn't going to be the same Kobe when he came back but I was told I knew nothing, this is Kobe Bryant.

Just for the record Kobe is shooting right around the same amount of shots he always has. He is just making 2 less fg's per game than he normally does. His career average is 8.9/19.6 this season he is at 8.3/22.4.

As for Scott, what is he going to say? Yeah Kobe has sucked all season, that's going to boost morale in the organisation right? He is answering politically correct to try keep harmony within the camp and maybe boost team morale. Is that not what you want from a coach?

Shaq
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wait I thought yesteday Kobe i.e. Mr. 8/22 wasn't playing, so why did we suck so much and lose by 20?

gemfow
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I know about players not playing ball for so long, I get it. This is not bashing by me, this is by looking at what I'm seeing on the floor. Maybe you see it differently, that's fine. However, you take a look at other teams and you see that ball movement is the key, it's not always about the ball being in an individual's hands. It's about the ball moving, an offense built around a 36 year old trying to shoot or facilitate is going to yield the results you see now, guys unhappy with the lack of ball movement. Kobe's attitude of fine, I'll do it myself worked back when he actually could. People say people don't move when kobe has the ball, ummm yeah because you have to clear space for the drive as well so cutting through the lane and sealing your man may not be wise. Are you really trying to rationalize 37% shooting? Plus, his shooting will continue to go down as the long grinding season progresses. Those two field goals less may not seem like much the way you're trying to phrase it. However, Kobe wasn't the most efficient guy prior to this season anyway. He's a 45% shooter for the most part. His season under D'Antoni probably had him around 47% which is pretty dang good for Kobe. Now we are talking about ten percent lower from 2012. This team is going to be bad no matter what, nothing is going to change that. However, who besides Kobe fans want to see Kobe try to do everything and fail at it? I'd rather see the team attempt to move the ball like the Atlanta Hawks, Dallas Mavericks, Spurs and so....

gemfow
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Shaq wrote:
wait I thought yesteday Kobe i.e. Mr. 8/22 wasn't playing, so why did we suck so much and lose by 20?

You bring up a fantastic point. It's because the team sucks. The FO is incompetent and starstruck. They refuse to rebuild when it's needed and they have very few assets. Kobe shows he doesn't make much of a difference anymore. So why carry this attitude that your play can't match? These guys should go out as a team, not as Kobe and supporting cast.

Tempy
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gemfow wrote:
It's about the ball moving, an offense built around a 36 year old trying to shoot or facilitate is going to yield the results you see now, guys unhappy with the lack of ball movement. People say people don't move when kobe has the ball, um yeah because you have to clear space for the drive as well so cutting through the lane and sealing your man may not be wise.

Are you really trying to rationalize 37% shooting? Plus, his shooting will continue to go down as the long grinding season progresses. However, Kobe wasn't the most efficient guy prior to this season anyway. He's a 45% shooter for the most part. His season under D'Antoni probably had him around 47% which is pretty dang good for Kobe. Now we are talking about ten percent lower from 2012.

This team is going to be bad no matter what, nothing is going to change that. However, who besides Kobe fans want to see Kobe try to do everything and fail at it? I'd rather see the team attempt to move the ball like the Atlanta Hawks, Dallas Mavericks, Spurs and so on. Instead we see ISO ball and people asking who should have the ball in their hands. His teammates are frustrated and it shows in their body language on the court.

If Scott wants to be politically correct then saying Kobe is 36 with high mileage is the best way to go. Saying his recent inefficient games is a joke because Kobe's been terribly inefficient all season. The problem with being a streaky shooter?

Sorry bro but when I see my beloved franchise going down, I can't be happy, that's from management down to one of the greatest Lakers of all time.

Your first part Gem, saying its about ball movement I agree to an extend. But who exactly would you rather be shooting? Lin? Young? Boozer? Johnson? The other options are as inconsistent as Kobe. His team mates are frustrated because their numbers are being affected. Not because they want the lakers to win but they want another nice contract.

The teams you all quoted are contending teams with a legit 2nd and 3rd option. They are built for the long term. The lakers are stuck with players here for a year and then moving on. Other than Davis, Young and Randle who exactly would you want to stick around next season? We can't play team ball when the FO refuses to build a team. This is partly Kobes fault taking the huge contract but more the FO than him.

Scott was actually correct in his terms that his recent games were inefficient. You keep bringing up this 37% fg percentage so using that, his last 3 games he shot 30.8%, 20% and 26.7%. Seems like he was being inefficient to me.

I am not rationalizing his 37% shooting, Kobe was always a streaky shooter but his percentage is going to improve when he finds his sweet spot for rest and minutes. It can't really get much worse. But again take a look at the players who have suffered the injury he did. For the most part its a career ending injury. Not a comeback everything is fine injury.

The Franchise has been going down ever since D12 left, and it has not hit rock bottom yet

Shaq
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gemfow wrote:
You bring up a fantastic point. It's because the team sucks. The FO is incompetent and starstruck. They refuse to rebuild when it's needed and they have very few assets. Kobe shows he doesn't make much of a difference anymore. So why carry this attitude that your play can't match? These guys should go out as a team, not as Kobe and supporting cast.

I couldn't and never disagreed with such posts, I would also like Kobe to shoot less this year (because his % says so, not because shooting that much is by definition wrong though).

But this type of post is of different attitude to the one of SPQR or even some previous ones of yours.

It's a "Kobe should shoot less because he is not shooting well" vs "Kobe should shoot less but he won't because he is an egomaniac and stubborn dick who cares only about personal stats and disrespects his coach and temates running after these" type of dfference

The first one, I can debate and agree with. The second one is pure hate and quite far from where the truth lies. Kobe has been the scapegoat of this 4-yeared period of darkness for the majority of the fans, this is not only untrue but also unfair

Tempy
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Against the warriors

Ronnie Price 6 for 10, good for 60% the 6th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 33.9%

Wes Johnson 5 for 10 good for 50% the 10th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 42.8%

Wayne Ellington 5 for 9 good for 55.6% the 13th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 47.5%

Ed Davis 7 for 7 good for 100% Davis has only shot below 50% in 6 Games! Shooting a season average 65%

Carlos Boozer 8 for 11 good for 72.7% the 15th time this season he has shot above 50% Shooting a season average 51.3%

The 2 games since;

Ronnie Price 3 for 7 & 3 for 9 = 6 for 16 or 37.5%fg

Wes Johnson 6 for 18 & 3 for 14 = 9 for 32 or 28.1%

Wayne Ellington 5 for 12 & 4 for 10 = 9 for 22 = 40.9%

Ed Davis 5 for 10 & 1 for 6 = 6 for 16 or 37.5%

Carlos Boozer 7 for 11 & 9 for 16 = 16 for 27 or 59%

Compare those against the game v Golden State.

I guess the palace guard got bored of showing King Kobe just what's up..............

SuperNutz
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Tempy these guys are Palace valet parking, or dish washer at best.

gemfow
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Shaq wrote:
I couldn't and never disagreed with such posts, I would also like Kobe to shoot less this year (because his % says so, not because shooting that much is by definition wrong though).

But this type of post is of different attitude to the one of SPQR or even some previous ones of yours.

It's a "Kobe should shoot less because he is not shooting well" vs "Kobe should shoot less but he won't because he is an egomaniac and stubborn dick who cares only about personal stats and disrespects his coach and temates running after these" type of dfference

The first one, I can debate and agree with. The second one is pure hate and quite far from where the truth lies. Kobe has been the scapegoat of this 4-yeared period of darkness for the majority of the fans, this is not only untrue but also unfair

My point for awhile with Kobe has been his shooting a gargantuan amount of shots. Even when he had loads of talent on the team it was everyone who has to fit in with him. Two seven footers who can play, a 6'10" forward who can handle the ball like a guard, and some pretty good role players still had to deal with Kobe not trusting them. Back then Kobe could go off and carry a team, now he can't. Has that stopped him firing up 22 shots per game which half of them end up being difficult shots? No, it's still everything must go through me whether I'm facilitating or shooting and it's just bad basketball. You won't hear me saying a loss is all Kobe's fault but you will hear me say he's a big problem in regards to it. Whether people agree with it or not, when the ball moves and guys feel involved, their hustle and defense will increase. That's why guys will run harder for a point guard who can pass because everyone wants to receive the ball.

gemfow
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Tempy wrote:
Your first part Gem, saying its about ball movement I agree to an extend. But who exactly would you rather be shooting? Lin? Young? Boozer? Johnson? The other options are as inconsistent as Kobe. His team mates are frustrated because their numbers are being affected. Not because they want the lakers to win but they want another nice contract.

The teams you all quoted are contending teams with a legit 2nd and 3rd option. They are built for the long term. The lakers are stuck with players here for a year and then moving on. Other than Davis, Young and Randle who exactly would you want to stick around next season? We can't play team ball when the FO refuses to build a team. This is partly Kobes fault taking the huge contract but more the FO than him.

Scott was actually correct in his terms that his recent games were inefficient. You keep bringing up this 37% fg percentage so using that, his last 3 games he shot 30.8%, 20% and 26.7%. Seems like he was being inefficient to me.

I am not rationalizing his 37% shooting, Kobe was always a streaky shooter but his percentage is going to improve when he finds his sweet spot for rest and minutes. It can't really get much worse. But again take a look at the players who have suffered the injury he did. For the most part its a career ending injury. Not a comeback everything is fine injury.

The Franchise has been going down ever since D12 left, and it has not hit rock bottom yet

This team is terribly inconsistent except for possibly Hill and Davis who are probably the most consistent out the bunch. For me it's not about who should shoot it besides Kobe. It's about getting the best shot possible. Kobe at 36 is trying to do things that he can't do anymore which is shoot fadeaways over guys. It takes lift and body control to knock that down, he still has the body control, it's the lift after all the years and mileage. Playing within a team concept and less isolation would yield him higher percentage shots which I have no doubt he'd probably be shooting around 44-46%. Instead he wants to change the offense or they'll run low percentage plays for him. Him eating up on a young player is different than him taking it to a seasoned vet. A great example was against Washington when he was giving Beal a hard time but when Pierce guarded him it was a little more difficult for Kobe. This has shown in other games as well. There have been a hand few of games where Kobe has reverted back to 2007 Kobe but it lasts for about a quarter.

Kobe's percentages won't get better IMO. He's fatigued already and this is after being off for almost 18 months. He came into camp in great shape like he usually does but severe injuries are almost like taking years off your career and he suffered two of them back to back, it's traumatic on the body, some people never recover.

gemfow
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Tempy wrote:
Against the warriors

Ronnie Price 6 for 10, good for 60% the 6th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 33.9%

Wes Johnson 5 for 10 good for 50% the 10th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 42.8%

Wayne Ellington 5 for 9 good for 55.6% the 13th time this season he has shot above 50%. Shooting a season average 47.5%

Ed Davis 7 for 7 good for 100% Davis has only shot below 50% in 6 Games! Shooting a season average 65%

Carlos Boozer 8 for 11 good for 72.7% the 15th time this season he has shot above 50% Shooting a season average 51.3%

The 2 games since;

Ronnie Price 3 for 7 & 3 for 9 = 6 for 16 or 37.5%fg

Wes Johnson 6 for 18 & 3 for 14 = 9 for 32 or 28.1%

Wayne Ellington 5 for 12 & 4 for 10 = 9 for 22 = 40.9%

Ed Davis 5 for 10 & 1 for 6 = 6 for 16 or 37.5%

Carlos Boozer 7 for 11 & 9 for 16 = 16 for 27 or 59%

Compare those against the game v Golden State.

I guess the palace guard got bored of showing King Kobe just what's up..............

These guys are all role players, most likely their numbers are better at home. That's expected. I'd rather see these guys shoot and shoot terribly as a team as opposed to seeing one guy who shoots just as bad get all the shots. Kobe has shot badly since the first game of the season. His percentages started to increase when he started playing better team ball. He's shot in the 30 percent range more times than anything else. He needs his tea's help to get easy shots but this iso frame of mind just keeps at it. He embraces his age but like I've said before, he changes his game for no one, not even Father Time.

gemfow
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SuperNutz wrote:
Tempy these guys are Palace valet parking, or dish washer at best.

Your posts are like a head of iceberg lettuce. It's plain and offers no nutritional value at all. Learn to engage in a conversation and offer up valid points which you seem to fail at time and time again. Look at Tempy and Shaq as prime examples of what to do. We posters may disagree but it's enjoyable to at least get some value from their posts. You offer up nothing but weak words that don't even bring forth any decent thought.

Tempy
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gemfow wrote:
These guys are all role players, most likely their numbers are better at home. That's expected. I'd rather see these guys shoot and shoot terribly as a team as opposed to seeing one guy who shoots just as bad get all the shots. Kobe has shot badly since the first game of the season. His percentages started to increase when he started playing better team ball. He's shot in the 30 percent range more times than anything else. He needs his tea's help to get easy shots but this iso frame of mind just keeps at it. He embraces his age but like I've said before, he changes his game for no one, not even Father Time.

I see your point but at the end of the day a miss is a miss. Doesn't matter who shoots it. I actually think this rest will have done him good he can actually physically see/feel that he can't do it all anymore. He ain't this super human no more. Hopefully he can ask Nash how he managed his minutes (while in Phoenix not here lol). Kobe can still be effective but it's for the medical staff and coaching to optimize his minutes.

The more I watch Kobe the clearer it becomes that he isn't catching Malone on the scoring list.

gemfow
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Tempy wrote:
I see your point but at the end of the day a miss is a miss. Doesn't matter who shoots it. I actually think this rest will have done him good he can actually physically see/feel that he can't do it all anymore. He ain't this super human no more. Hopefully he can ask Nash how he managed his minutes (while in Phoenix not here lol). Kobe can still be effective but it's for the medical staff and coaching to optimize his minutes.

The more I watch Kobe the clearer it becomes that he isn't catching Malone on the scoring list.

What helped Malone and Kareem is they rarely dealt with major injuries. Michael missed a season, well actually two when he had a broken foot and retired after his dad was murdered. Kobe missed last season, he also started out on the bench on a vet team and wasn't given the team from the get go and he may not have been ready to contribute from the get go, I'm not sure.

I think Kobe is coming to that realization as well. I'm sure it hurts because he's always had a warrior mentality. Personally, I'd like to see him go out next season on a Laker team that's in the playoffs but that doesn't seem likely. Filling the team with one year contracts doesn't provide guys with security and knowing they're part of the team's plan.

Luke...
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It;s funny you mention the longevity and health of the top 2 in the scoring list, Kareem and Malone... What's funnier is that both of them are centers who played with all-time great point guards... in fact if you look at the top 10 in the all-time scoring list, I think only Kobe and Jordon are the only 2 who aren't centers. Off the top of my head I am not sure how many of them were blessed with stellar point guards, but it makes what Kobe and Jordon have done all that much more difficult. They worked harder for their points by higher percentage than did the big men, in that they had less people feeding them the ball, and taking shots further from the basket.

Not to take anything away from those big men at all, they are all out of sight amazing... just saying, for that pair of shooting guards to be in the mix of a record that is obviously dominated by big men... is amazing. No need to approach Malone's record.

Luke...
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and agreed, I think we all, and even many non-Lakers fans would have rather seen Kobe go out with a hooray or at least some loud noise...

Had the Chris Paul and Dwight Howard situations worked out, we would have had much noise at least for sure.

But it didn't work out, so it looks as though Kobe will go out with more of a sigh than a hooray... BUT, if we use some thankful reflection we can all appreciate the amazing rides, the 5 championships, the many years in the playoffs and in contention. If Kobe retires after next year, without a big bang in the playoffs, it'll be ok, it won't be sad news, it'll be a time to remember all the awesome that we all got to enjoy.

gemfow
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In NBA history most of the scorers on that list I'm sure are on the frontline. Guards by definition are suppose to guard against the other team scoring in transition which is why they're usually further from the rim. I'm sure Kobe and Jordan may be the only guards in the top 15 scoring, I'll have to look that up one day. The game has always been about the highest percentage shot, this is why forwards and centers have usually dominated the scoring. As great as Jordan was, he IMO was somewhat bad for basketball team play. All of a sudden the copycat league wanted their own MJ, ball dominant shooting guards and small forwards who get their teammates shots off of their one on one greatness. That left the league with these point guards that were there to mostly spot up or handle the ball well enough to initiate an offense to get it to their money players. We have had a reemergence of point guard play ever since the league wanted better team basketball and less ISO play, thank God they implemented that zone to force that. It may be amazing that Kobe and Jordan were so high up on the list, but it also means teams have to find certain guys who can play with ball dominant shooting guards and that isn't easy when these guards play in the post too. I'm not the biggest fan of ball dominant shooting guards or small forwards because well, it renders a team's moves difficult to find guys who can play with them. You see how Bosh looks like his old self now that James is gone? Bosh sacrificed a lot to win rings and much respect goes out to....

lakedson
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If Clippers really want to win this year, Kobe might be their answer...I really don't know how they can pull it out but if Steve Balmer is for real on what he said he doesn't care about the money then he should figure out a way once Kobe puts himself out there...

Luke...
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It's true that having any one guy be ball dominate isn't "optimal" but that dominate guy could also be the point guard... like all the scoring point guards out there who barely get 5 or so assists. Which I am kinda not into, lol. Or a dominant big that just demands the ball every play down and goes to post moves. So yeah, any one guy hoggin the ball is bad for the team game, it's all about a balance. But ya still have to admit that its impressive for Kobe and Jordon to be around the top of that list when all of the other top 10 are all centers. It's funny how I have heard Lin complain about Kobe hoggin the ball, but when I have seen Lin out there he seems to be dribbling waaaay to much, and lately just looking to drive for his own shot. Is it a "Kobe's hogging it, cuz I want to hog it" complaint? lol

But yes, it's all about balance to be optimal, ya gotta mix it up with iso plays, post, screens, hockey assists ,etc... and the balance will always tip to the side that has the talent. Why Shaq got the ball a lot, why Jordon and Kobe get the ball the most, heh its why all these ball-dominate point guards get the ball so much... cuz they can score.

But I do look forward to a Lakers team that can average a high number of assists that's for sure.

LALayup
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I know that somehow I haven't been on LTB in forever but I'd like to chime in at least a bit here. Maybe some of you still remember me. Ha!

For a long time now I've hoped that Kobe's final years would somehow round him into being a player who's more conducive to a consistent team approach. I've been told over and over again that I was hoping against hope. But still, I thought there was a chance for that to happen. I think Brian Shaw was prepared to help him a lot with that, but that's a separate matter.

At any rate, if it could somehow happen on a deep and consistent level, I don't even think I would mind the Lakers losing quite as much as I mind losing in a manner that barely resembles the kind of Lakers basketball I was raised on.

Without question we all have admired Kobe's astonishing individual ability for a very long time now. The thrills are seemingly endless. I try to never forget just what an amazing athlete he was, and even still is.

Considering all these recent team events, and even Kobe's seemingly humble words after the most recent game vs. Denver (after his triple-double) explaining the performance by stating that "I must evolve" -- I can't seem to let go of the hope that there's still room to see a consistent team game out of this team, including Kobe.

Maybe I'm just an endlessly hopeful fan.

===========

By the way, regarding the question above about graceful exits in superstar careers--I'm not sure that anyone has even mentioned the obvious grace that's been exhibited by Duncan, Ginobili, and even Parker in San Antonio. It's hard to imagine a better example, at least at the end of last season. Those guys clearly couldn't have cared less about who was going to be given the Finals MVP award. Honestly, I don't think their fans cared either. There's a lot to be learned from that.

LakerZip
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San Antonio has selected its players with a different set of criteria than most other NBA teams. They are looking for relatively humble guys without a chip on their shoulders. Look at the members of that team. Each puts the team's play ahead of their own. That's team basketball. You won't see that with Nick Young. I'll bet if they could get Nick Young for free, the Spurs would decline, because he's cocky. I like that cockiness, but truthfully, it's hard to cage a cat like Swaggy or Kobe. They have their own way of doing things, and humble isn't generally the word used to describe either one of these players.

LALayup
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LakerZip wrote:
San Antonio has selected its players with a different set of criteria than most other NBA teams. They are looking for relatively humble guys without a chip on their shoulders. Look at the members of that team. Each puts the team's play ahead of their own. That's team basketball. You won't see that with Nick Young. I'll bet if they could get Nick Young for free, the Spurs would decline, because he's cocky. I like that cockiness, but truthfully, it's hard to cage a cat like Swaggy or Kobe. They have their own way of doing things, and humble isn't generally the word used to describe either one of these players.

LZ, while you're absolutely right, I also wonder. I think it's true that a player who's purely about self-promotion will not survive in San Antonio, but at the same time they seem to take some chances and see if they can mold players into their system as well. It's a team culture that won't allow guys to play just for themselves. By the way, I'm not sure they would just write off an opportunity for a guy like Nick Young. We can say all kinds of things about him, but he is a competitor and I wouldn't doubt that he would enjoy playing in SA immensely.

LakerZip
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Layup = we're on the same page. The reason I picked Young, is that he is a caged animal. Very hard to control what he does in a game, just like Kobe. But I think he's great. The only thing is, can he be integrated into a team of guys just like him (like Kobe did with Shaq in the early years). I say that, knowing that we don't have any supporting players like those 2 did back in the day.

I think San Antonio's players have to take a blood oath, or something, that they won't be ball hogs - that they will distribute the ball to the open man at all times, and if they don't, they will be taken out back and given a good whoopin'.

LALayup
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^ Yep. I have no doubt that there's a lot of discipline involved somewhere along the line. I remember Robert Horry saying something about how Pop wouldn't let him get away with anything outside their system. And it might just be that when players get into a system like that, they realize quickly that it's a helluva LOT more fun to play, as well as a LOT more fun for the fans to watch.


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