Steve Kerr Shows Lakers Were Wise to Pass on GM Phil.

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SPQR
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Phil Jackson has been the topic of much heated discussion lately among Lakers fans. First we had the possibility of Phil returning as coach after the Brown firing. I was against that move for a few reasons: First, Phil, as he said himself in a radio interview I heard is too old and sick to be the coach he wants to be-and a team, any team-would need him to be. Then there are his salary demands which are astronomical compared to other coaches. The other reason was simply this, it doesn't matter if we hired some metaphysical combination of Phil, Pat Riley and Red Auerbach, no coach could have led this team to a title this year nor lead next year's team to a title, no matter what changes we make this off season. Because one offseason will not be enough to heal and improve this team to the degree required to compete for a title.

So why pay Phil 12 million plus? You only pay that kind of scratch when titles are at stake.

Then in light of disenchantment with the current FO another hue and cry came up wanting Phil as GM. The theory behind that was, "Well its Phil, he just pretty much has to snap his fingers and any players or coach he wants will come running to be with him."

That theory was completely destroyed with Steve Kerr's decision to reject his close friend, mentor and legend by opting to become the coach of the Golden State Warriors instead of accepting Phil's offer to join him in New York.

What cuts even deeper to the Phil theory is that Kerr wasn't just some coach Phil wanted. These two are close. Very close. And Kerr understood the impression it would make if he didn't take Phil's very public offer. And he didn't. Phil snapped his fingers, in a very public way and the response was not as expected. And as was writtien a New York Post article yesterday, the twelve milion dollar a year man didn't have a back up plan. It was Kerr and only Kerr. So now he has to impliment a backup plan he neither had nor thought he needed. That is what you get for twelve million?

While there has been plenty to criticize about our FO the last few years, and you all know I have been in the forefront of that opprobrium, I will say that in rejecting the idea of Phil as both coach or GM, in turning away his extortive, exorbitant monetary demands, in flying against the face of what so many Lakers fans wanted, the FO has done exactly the right thing. While I am no fan of Mitch Kupchak, while I would not shed a single tear if he left this team, Phil Jackson at his twelve million a year extortion and exorbitant price was and is no sane answer.

Because this is the truth of it: when it comes to players and coaches, all things being relatively equal (read money), they don't care who the GM of some team is. When offered multiple choices to go play or coach, they will choose the team that offers the best situation to thrive and win in and not make a decision based on who the GM is sitting behind a mahogany desk in some ivory tower.

And now that Kerr has exposed the myth of Phil Jackson's appeal in such stark relief, saving that twelve million a year (for a job that normally pays in the league is three million) is the smartest move we have made in a long time.

Now if they can follow that up with hiring the right coach and drafting the correct player with that first round pick.

http://nba.si.com/2014/05/14/steve-kerr ... ch-knicks/


zheck13
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no lie, that was indeed a HUGE blow to the persona and mystique that is phil, now i'm almost certain melo will leave for greener pastures. Kerr took the job that was closest to his family, everybody would make that move especially if the pieces of the team you're going to is way better than the knicks. however, there's also a troubling thing that i read (which probably scared Kerr away). i read that melo approved of Kerr because Phil would be able to coach him through Kerr. this is a precarious and stressful position to put a new/young coach in. if i were Kerr i would have run away too. oh well it's back to the drawing board for them, as long as it isn't ollie, JVG, scott or hollins, i'm good. it's probably gonna end up being one of his disciples like fisher, rambis or scott...or maybe mark jackson.

by the way, FIVE MORE DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYS!!!

i've got all my fingers toes and eyes crossed for this draft lottery. lol!


kerby720
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I'm fine with the talk now being Fisher or Rambis for the Knicks. While I wouldn't mind the thought of us having Fisher, I'd rather it be more as an assistant coach. If Fisher were to be a coach, I would not really want his first try to be with us. At least I wouldn't want that to be our first choice. Now Ollie on the other hand, would be the perfect choice, especially if we want to develop our draft pick.

So all we can do now is hope and pray that we not only draft someone, but also that it is a top 3 pick. As zheck has said, only 5 more days away!!


Kannaps
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It has nothing to do with Phil really. The media are just taking advantage of the situation, especially the tenebrous NY media, making it seem as he is powerless and portraying it as a huge blow to his personna and the Knicks' aspirations of contending again, like it would depend on this hire or Kerr's ability. In reality Kerr took the better job offer, nothing else. Perhaps NY would've gotten him more money, but they are in a very bad situation that would've eventually cost him his job even before he could make any significant impact. When taking over a team and building again coaches take time. Ny's cap and roster situation is abysmal. They have no future 1st rounders, can't really sign anyone and are tied down with huge bad contracts, injury prone guys, overrated guys and most of all problematic ego's in the locker room. Besides Oakland being closer to his family, the team situation in the Bay Area is much more stable, with a lot of upside, lot's of young guys (all locked down for the future) very engaged in progressing and getting better and the team is only a couple of steps away from being a contender. There isn't as much media pressure, as much pressure from the oweners and the Front Office and the money is also very good. Kerr just took the better offer, the better situation and the best team to coach and to above all be able to do something meaningfull with his tenure there. It's simple as that, it has nothing to do with Phil, but with the Knicks franchise being a chronically unsolvable mess because of James Dolan and all the guys that preceded Phil in his current spot. No matter how perfect Jackson's pitch was, Kerr or any sane guy, would've taken it....


SPQR
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Joao,

I beg to differ but it has everything to do with Phil. He is getting paid four times the going rate for the job because he is Phil. Because the theory was if Phil calls your name, you will come, players or coaches. Kerr's decision was smart and realistic and stabs right at the heart of the theory that Phil gives a team a 12 million a year edge at GM.

Of course Kerr took the better offer and situation. That is the point. Phil does not bring a 12 million a year edge, so why pay it? You don't, not if your smart.


IhatetheCeltics
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I never understood the enamor with Phil Jackson as the president of the Lakers. As a coach yes. As a coach, he's proven. But this notion that players and coaches are going to flock there because it's Phil Jackson is laughable. Mitch Kupchak said it best, players don't care who the owner or GM is. These new players don't care. And frankly, why should they? He put all his eggs in the Steve Kerr basket and struck out big time. The lakers just need to make sure everybody is on the same page. And according to Kobe, they are. I get that Mitch Kupchak is not a sexy name. But you know what, a lot of times you don't need a sexy name to get the job done. This notion that they should have put Phil over Mitch who has years of experience as an executive makes no sense.


SPQR
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Celtics,

Yep, yep and yep. I do know one person who is laughing all the way to a very big bank. His initials are PJ.


Kannaps
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Celtics, Randy, One thing we all agree, having the idea of Phil Jackson handling the team isn't a sure shot, it's only brand marketing right now. I would not hire him over a guy like Ainge, Rc Bufford or even Mitch. At least, until he's proven he is just as good as a gm that he was as a coach or as good as the top GM's in the league. But I still beg to differ that it's on his shoulders, it's not. It's on James Dolan, in fact all the struggles Knicks have had off the court are on James Dolan. Except for Isiah Thomas, who was just awful and who Dolan ironically enough, loved and praised unlike others. Like he always has, Dolan lives in a simple minded fantasy world where he is always right and must have what he wants. Yet he has no clue whatsoever about basketball decisions. I would safely state that the Knicks could be one of the best teams each season, yet the best they can do is blow out near the top. They are a joke and the worst managed club in the NBA, along with the Cavs and the Wolves. Difference is, the Knicks are the biggest market in the country. Dolan consistently gets in the way of everybody he hires, GM's, directors and coaches. Sooner or later he is going to get in Phil's way, if he hasn't already here, although indirectly. Worse than that, this time around he got enamoured by the image of Phil Jackson and assumed his stature would equal early christmas for the Knicks, yet stature doesn't equal reality. Guys come in, start building towards something,once they start settling in, get fired. New guys come, start changing up, start settling in, get fired. Repeat process ad infinitum. Phil may have done the best offer,....


SPQR
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Joao,

I don't put it on Phil. But his salary demands were his. And they say, I am Phil. I am worth the money. Not Phil's fault some sucker bought into that silly idea. Why shouldn't Phil take that money if someone is dumb enough to buy that hype? I don't blame Phil for doing his usual extortion scam. He would have crazy not to if somone out there is willing to buy into it.

What I'm saying is the Knicks or any team would be nuts to give anyone four times the going rate. And man am I glad we didn't buy into Phil's extortion scheme. Now the Knicks have to pay a guy that astronomical sum and get nothing special in return for it. They could have hired a smart guy who could have done just as good a job, or maybe a lot better job at a fourth of the rate.

The Knicks just didn't get their monies worth. Not even close. Nobody would have at 12 million a year. Players and coaches will go to the situation where they feel they have the best chance to succeed, money being equal. Phil has no magic wand to bring them in, but that is exactly what the Knicks paid for, Phil's mythical magic wand.

Dolan will learn the hard way the old expression, poorer but wiser. That is if he is capable of learning at all which is up for debate.


Skyeword
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I think being closer to his family including a coaching situation where he can carve out his own niche is clearly preferable. Phil operates behind the scenes but maintains control over the proceedings even when he was the coach and relying on a low key approach. Five years in and Steve would have still been operating under the thumb of Phil. This may be comparable to playing with Kobe. Everyone wants to do it but on the other hand, who wants to be on a team where the star denies experiences and self definition due to the privileges that come with stardom? Carrying forward the analogy, if Kobe is a ball-hog, Phil is a method hog.


JJCali
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I think it's funny that all these people on here are now agreeing that having Phil as GM doesn't guarantee anything. But before and after he took the Knicks job all of LTB was crazy about how that would guarantee we won't ever get any good free agents because they'd all go to Phil and the Jim Buss had no idea what he was doing because he wouldn't hire Phil. Baadmaster even left to go become a Clippers can because of it. Just think it's funny.


zheck13
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JJCali wrote:
I think it's funny that all these people on here are now agreeing that having Phil as GM doesn't guarantee anything. But before and after he took the Knicks job all of LTB was crazy about how that would guarantee we won't ever get any good free agents because they'd all go to Phil and the Jim Buss had no idea what he was doing because he wouldn't hire Phil. Baadmaster even left to go become a Clippers can because of it. Just think it's funny.

What Phil would have meant to the Lakers can not be measured because it's immeasurable. No doubt he would have given an edge to the Lakers FO, the same thing can not be said of new York with its horrible owner bad weather bad track record lack of cap space and dysfunctional players. the same thing would have happened had Phil gone to Boston, it's just not a desirable situation. It had less to do with Phil and more about the situation. This also goes to show you that the Lakers is STILL the most desirable franchise.


Tempy
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zheck13 wrote:
What Phil would have meant to the Lakers can not be measured because it's immeasurable. No doubt he would have given an edge to the Lakers FO, the same thing can not be said of new York with its horrible owner bad weather bad track record lack of cap space and dysfunctional players. the same thing would have happened had Phil gone to Boston, it's just not a desirable situation. It had less to do with Phil and more about the situation. This also goes to show you that the Lakers is STILL the most desirable franchise.

For one, the Knicks are the biggest market team in the NBA. Weather has no bearing on people's decision in going there. They go to NY cos its frecking NY!

Yes they have a bad owner but is Jim Buss cast in a shining light right now? So those cancel each other out.

Yes they have a bad track record of cap space but have a look at the lakers payroll the past three seasons. What exactly have we accomplished with our over paid prima donna's? Nothing since 2010.


IhatetheCeltics
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Jim Buss isn't even comparable to Dolan's level of bad. That's just silly.


zheck13
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Tempy wrote:
For one, the Knicks are the biggest market team in the NBA. Weather has no bearing on people's decision in going there. They go to NY cos its frecking NY!

Yes they have a bad owner but is Jim Buss cast in a shining light right now? So those cancel each other out.

Yes they have a bad track record of cap space but have a look at the lakers payroll the past three seasons. What exactly have we accomplished with our over paid prima donna's? Nothing since 2010.

Is it me or do you sound angry?


userpete1037
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I don't think Steve passing up NY has anything to do with PJ. Look at that roster. That says it all. The only person that can coach NY is PJ.


Kannaps
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They do say that sure, but they also say, "I'm a 70 year old guy with health issues who is the most succesfull coach in the history of this sport and doesn't really need this, so if i'm gonna put up with you Dolan, you might as well bring those Cablevision dollars". Perhaps this is what you mean with his extortion scheme? idk...I actually find it funny. I also think he might still have some emotional ties to the team since he was the PG there when they won the title in the 70s so he wants to help them out....or not. They say the first is unlike any other...and that's why I think he took the job in the end too. Because even at 12M/year it's not really relevant for someone in Phil's situation. If anything, it just shows how little Dolan knows about the game and bringing in Phil and paying 12M a year won't solve the troubles he has put his team in. No one can really do anything until Dolan stops stepping in and gives up the reigns .I don't mean selling, just stoping to make decisions for the guys he pays millions to make them and just sit back waiting for revenue to show up, which I believe is what he wants. On an unrelated note, going back to our eternal discussion about youth, I went to look at history and stats to check who was the last lottery pick the Knicks had that stayed there for more than 2 years under Dolan. I won't even question the selections, which are plain awful looking back at the boards in each year, but from 6 , the only one that stayed (for 3 motths extra only) was Gallinari. All other guys where packaged along with bad contracts to get other bad contracts from....


Tempy
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zheck13 wrote:
Is it me or do you sound angry?

Its you


vinny808
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Some sucker?

The ****.

2 hands worth of championships. Coached the best. Pretty much the most successful guy in the NBA.

God, I hope his salary is better than the curve. Hell I hope its greater than the 95th percentile.

If I were in his situation, someone BETTER pay me to get me out of retirement.

So Kerr took the job in his HOME STATE, where his FAMILY is located. Or the fact that he gets to coach Steph Curry. This is proof? LOL. Get out.


dub4twenty
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^ on point.


Shaq
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SPQR,

It is very early yet to judge the Knicks decision. Let's see what team Phill will build during the next 2 years...


KBLO-24_7
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Quote:
Commentary: Phil Jackson in power struggle over Knicks with owner James Dolan

The belief is that he wasn't - that it was Dolan (who would not offer Steve Kerr more contract years and more money to come to coach the Knicks), who supposedly was ready to move aside and let Jackson weave his magic. Dolan has a long history of paying off deposed coaches and general managers - buying their silence as they cash in the vacant years of their contract. Try to ask ex-coach Mike Woodson about the Knicks right now and see how far you get.

Kerr heard the nightmarish stories, not just about Dolan, but about some of the corporate yes men and henchmen around him - and heard that some weren't thrilled to have Jackson attempting to flex his muscle inside the organization in areas that Dolan felt were beyond the basketball operations. But the coach certainly is basketball operations, so what should that tell Jackson about his time in New York? Maybe he should ask Kerr for an honest answer about what he'd heard.

Maybe Jackson already knows and is content to do what Kerr wasn't, collect a big paycheck and endure the meddling hand of the owner who has run out Hall of Fame coaches and heralded executives.

The only way. Phil would fail in LA is if Jimmy tried to undermine him like a puppet. Dolan is pulling a Dolan but Phil go get paid at least .... And it's not a knock on Phil, he did it to the other president when he forced the Marbury/Francis deal and then again when he went did Melos trade


Lakedog
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Success breeds contempt in the less capable, a desire to climb on the shoulders of that greater person to pretend one's self a giant. Nowhere is this more self-evident than in the case of Phil Jackson. When it comes to the NBA's all-time championship-winningest coach, there is this constant drone arising from the rabble that anybody could have done what he did with his rosters. That drone has reached a crescendo now that he has taken the job of G.M. of the New York Knicks. "Why doesn't Phil step down and coach the team," the sports pundits cry out, with the unspoken agenda of "Let's see how Phil does coaching a lousy roster" -- as if anybody wins with a lousy roster. As for the former argument, other coaches had his Chicago and Los Angeles rosters and didn't win championships. And regarding the latter argument, the guy is just a solar-cycle or two short of being 70 years of age, with an artificial hip and a need for enough additional bionic parts to cause cybernetic manufactures to go to a 3rd shift. If patching up Steve Austin was six million dollars back in the 70's, imagine the cha-chings going off in Phil's head accounting for today's inflation. Don't begrudge the man his salary -- and he definitely doesn't need to be subjecting his body to the rigors of coaching at his age. Now SPQR wants to diss the man for not landing Steve Kerr, citing "Kerr has exposed the myth of Phil Jackson's appeal." What!? Borrowing a line from Mark Jackson -- "SPQR, you're better than that!" First, prognosticating gloom-and-doom for the Knicks because Phil failed to land Steve Kerr is about as premature as a horny teen's first time. You don't know what kind of coach the neophyte Kerr would have been for the....


zheck13
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Well Damn lakedog! LMBO. Shots HAVE been fired.


kerby720
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Phil better find someone he can control quick. According to the NY Daily News, he looks like a beaten man after Kerr spurned him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/nba-executive-knic ks-prez-phil-jackson-beaten-man-article-1.1795945


lakerXpeat
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Here we are debating about nothing. Jimbo is the issue here in Laker Land, not NY. Jimbo is asking for another 3 years to prove himself to Laker Fans? Really? He should have stepped down this year! What a pathetic loser, hiding behind Daddy's shadow. No shadow now and the truth is out, just butt naked ugly!

As for Steve Kerr, there is no damage to PJ's brand considering because he took the Warriors job for family reasons. Dolan just like Jimbo are crappy owners with crappy teams, but in Dolan's case he had some foresight in hiring PJ after a famous disenfranchised Laker court side season ticket holder set up the job with Dolan. Meanwhile we are going to get another 3 years of the SOS, excuses, and the Deer-in-the-Headlights looks from the Laker FO when the Clipp's punk them again! How sad!


SuperNutz
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zheck13 wrote:
Well Damn lakedog! LMBO. Shots HAVE been fired.

I wouldn't call it shot fired zheck. Would you expect anything interesting or new from the OP? It's the same tired a** regurgitated argument from the same peoples around here.


IhatetheCeltics
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lakerXpeat wrote:
Here we are debating about nothing. Jimbo is the issue here in Laker Land, not NY. Jimbo is asking for another 3 years to prove himself to Laker Fans? Really? He should have stepped down this year! What a pathetic loser, hiding behind Daddy's shadow. No shadow now and the truth is out, just butt naked ugly! As for Steve Kerr, there is no damage to PJ's brand considering because he took the Warriors job for family reasons. Dolan just like Jimbo are crappy owners with crappy teams, but in Dolan's case he had some foresight in hiring PJ after....


Lakedog
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Hey IhatetheCeltics,

In Phil's defense, at the time Phil opted for Steve Kerr, Kerr wasn't on anybody's radar -- not publicly anyway. It was Phil's anointing that catapulted Kerr into national prominence as a sought-after coach. However you do make some perceptive points and provide some good insight. Your reflections on Phil losing face with Melo makes sense.


lakerdude
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You are right on on this one Randy. We did right by not getting Phil. I was totally against the hiring of D'antoni, but at least he didn't break the bank, and the season was going to be a bust like you said, no matter who we had as coach or GM. I'm hoping we get Jeff Van Gundy this time around myself, and am praying for the right trade or draft choice. Great post...


Lakedog
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As lakerXpeat points out, this is an exercise in futility debating Phil Jackson; however, I must say that I was disappointed that Phil wasn't given a prominent leadership position in the Lakers front office. Regarding Phil's salary, he would not have charged Jeanie Buss anywhere near 12 million dollars to G.M. for the Lakers, especially considering how much he wanted that position. The 12 million was because it was New York and Dolan. Furthermore, because of the cache and name-brand Phil has built with the Lakers, his power to recruit players and coaches would have been exponentially increased with the Lakers' front office as compared with Phil Jackson and the Knicks' front office.

In addition, Phil would have gotten Kobe to reup at a much lower salary, positioning the Lakers to be able to sign not one, but two max players this off-season. What is more, we would have gotten a highly motivated Phil Jackson as Laker G.M. Phil's natural rival is Miami's G.M. Pat Riley, and Riles have architected two NBA championships and is working on a 3rd. Don't you think Phil wants to prove that he is Riles' intellectual equal in the front office? But alas! we shall never know, because that know-nothing Baby Buss has wet his diapers and demanded that he calls the shots. I have nothing but disdain for Buss' managerial abilities!


kerby720
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Lakedog wrote:
Hey IhatetheCeltics,

In Phil's defense, at the time Phil opted for Steve Kerr, Kerr wasn't on anybody's radar -- not publicly anyway. It was Phil's anointing that catapulted Kerr into national prominence as a sought-after coach. However you do make some perceptive points and provide some good insight. Your reflections on Phil losing face with Melo makes sense.

I think Melo was gone even if they hired Kerr. Melo made his decision a long time ago and I think he's gone.


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