Kobe, Lebron's Paths Diverge, how Long Will God Love LBJ?

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SPQR
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There was an article out this morning about the Lakers and Heat game and more specifically about the different stages of the careers of the two teams superstars, Kobe and Lebron. It as an interesting article as far as it goes and worth the read. But there was on thing in that article that jumped out at me. It was Lebron's comments about how long he will play, or more accurately, how long the Man Upstairs will let him play. This comment stuck out with me for reasons I will go into. But first, for those interested, here is the the link to it. After you read it, I will have my thoughts on what he said and why I had those thoughts for those interested in that. My thoughts on this are rather long, so if you plunge ahead after the article, you are forewarned, lol.

Link: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/notebook?id=10193881&src=desktop

Now onto my observations:

What really caught my attention more than anything else was LBJ's comment that "the man above knows how much time he's going to give me in this game. And once he decides I don't have any more time to give, then I'll have to call it quits."

When I read that, I thought, the man upstairs? Who would that be? Perhaps he is talking of the day Pat Riley will come down from his office and say, "Hey kid, it's time to hang up the old sneaks."

But no, unfortunately Lebron wasn't talking about his GM. He was of course referring to some god who must really take a very close interest in Lebron and his career. This is just the latest of so many quotes from athletes and entertainers, usually singers, talking about god. It seems to be almost a craze now among this certain set.

You watch a music awards show these days and all you hear is, god is great, or, all praise to god. You watch a sporting event and you see players crossing themselves on the bench, on the field, between plays, right before plays. After the games, they open their mouths and you think, well, you are watching a music award show, or more accurately a church revival meeting.

Let's take a closer look at Lebron's and these other players or entertainers so now common statements. What that really implies for them and their ability to think and view the universe, world, it's history and present as it really is. And what does this idea they have of themselves say about themselves.

Lebron says the man upstairs will decide when his playing days are over. The sheer ego and conceit of this statement opens up a whole pandoras box of implications. To understand these implications, lets take a step back with a quick look at the nature of the universe we live in. We know that it consists of millions of stars which are then circled by millions of planets, just in our own mid-sized galaxy. And in the universe there are millions of these galaxies containing the same. We don't even know how many galaxies there are. And now there is evidence that our universe is not the only one in existence, but one of many. How many? Maybe millions. So you see, we are talking big here. So big, you can't really imagine it. Bigger than Shaq's shoe even. It makes us, this planet, even our own Milky Way Galaxy smaller and more non consequential than a single grain of sand on all the beaches of the world combined.

Yet here is Lebron, and others, who feel that a god who made all this, who I guess we can call the Big Coach or Big GM of everything, has his eye on their sports careers. Like he is sitting up in the owners box with Riles and thinking, Hmmm, I wonder how long I will let Lebron play? Should I end it now, tonight, next year or in ten years?

And it brings up the question, if the Big GM upstairs is so interested in Lebron's career and decides he really digs Lebron's game, or is just a Heat fan, why not make him athletically immortal and let him play for 25 years, or 100 years for forever? Why decide to end his career at all? Let the good times continue to role ad infinitum, right?

And if a player who has a long career is indeed blessed by god, one must assume this god likes him. But what of players who aren't so fortunate? Let's take his own new teamate, Greg Oden. This was player of great potential, it made him a very high pick. Yet his career has been destroyed by an endless series of injuries. He will never be what he was and will be fortunate to have any career at all. Is the Big GM pissed at him for such a shortchange? Did he look down from his office on high and say, "Well, Greg, don't like the way you look. So let's just make those knees into glass," you know, like water into wine.

How good was god to Oden in that regard?

But let's go even further and look at human history. Think about all the suffering that has happened to humans in our history, from when we first appeared here to right this moment. Think of the disease, the accidents the wars, the horrific things that have happened to millions and millions of good people- men, women and children- over the thousands of years of human existence. Think of the horrible suffering, the lonely, hard deaths that will happen just this year. To men, women and yes, children.

Let's take a look at just a recent small, yes small, microcosm of this that happened not long ago. World War II. It was a war that cost over 40 million lives. Deaths from all types of ways, starvation, freezing, sickness, the battles themselves. Families lost everything, families were wiped out of existence. Six million Jews were herded up like cattle, taken to camps, beaten, starved and worked to death. Husbands, wives and children had to watch as their husbands, wives and children were sent into gas chambers then shoved into ovens to come out chimneys as smoke and fat that clung to those chimneys in layers so many feet thick they had to send more Jewish prisoners up those chimneys to scrap the fat off so that more of their friends and family members could be burned up. And eventually, even the chimney scrappers would make that journey up those same chimneys as wisps of smoke. Then they just sent some more people up to scrap the new layers of fat out.

If you put on film, every single horrible thing that happened to every single human during our existence, it would take thousands of years to watch and it would drive a sane person insane.

So here we have the Big GM, who for some reason turned and keeps turning a blind eye to all this. Yet Lebron thinks that this same GM is watching his game, his career and calculating how long he will let him play ball? He actually thinks that this god is so very interested in that?

Or maybe that is why the Big GM has let all these things happen to us. Maybe he is just such a big sports and entertainment fan, all his concentration is on the lives of Lebron and other athletes and entertainers. Maybe he doesn't have the time to focus on the other little problems like WW II or the thousands of babies that will die this year from disease or starvation or neglect.

Maybe he is too busy watching Lebron dunk or Beyonce sing.

The other thought that came to my mind is this: If the Big GM is so interested in Lebron and his career, why the long wait to get the party started? The world is around four billion years old. Before mankind appeared, hundreds of millions of years passed before even single celled life appeared. Then millions more before dinosaurs. Then hundreds of millions of years the dinosaurs ruled before they died off. Then many more millions of years before mankind made it's belated arrival. How short a time have we been on this planet? Stretch you arm out, with your shoulder being the start of earth, now look at your tip of your finger nail. That tip is how long we have been here. If the Big GM upstairs was so concerned about Lebron and his game, how long his career will last, why did it take so long to get that particular party started?

If you look at all these things, one gets the impression the Big GM doesn't give hoot about how long Lebron plays ball. Or Beyonce sings. It really seems an unavoidable conclusion. That is if you are smart enough, educated enough to understand the world and universe we live in. And if you are not so egocentric to think you are that important.

Even further, this concept of the Big GM is brought into focus by so many interviews by athletes. You know them, you have seen them after a team wins. "It was in Gods hands." "God is good." "God was with us." We have all heard it.

So does that mean God is against the losing team? That he attends all these games and decides who wins and who loses? Does that mean he likes one player, one team over another, even though all these teams seem to have so many believers who express that belief every chance they get when a microphone is put in their faces? Is one team just not praying hard enough?

On my Steelers, we have a top level QB, Ben Roethisberger. After every touchdown pass he throws, he points to the Big GM in the sky. The message is clear, "Thanks big guy, it's all on you." So when Ben throws these TD's, apparently it is gods will. But what happens when he throws a game losing interception? He has done that more than once in his career. Yet I have never seen him point to the sky on those. And why not? If god is responsible for the TD passes, doesn't it follow reason that he is responsible for the picks too? Doesn't this just indicate that on that day, the Big GM decided to let the other team win? So since this is Gods will, why shouldn't Ben thank him for that as well?

There was a football player back in 2010, a very talented wide receiver for the Bills named Steve Johnson. Apparently, he was strongin the belief of the Lebron, Roethisberger school of the Big GM who cares about how their career is going. Well, he dropped a pass in a game that cost the Bills that game. Afterwords he put up this tweet:

"I PRAISE YOU 24/7!!!!!!" the 24-year-old tweeted from his iPad at around 5:15 Sunday after the Steelers' 19-16 overtime victory. "AND THIS HOW YOU DO ME!!!!! YOU EXPECT ME TO LEARN FROM THIS??? HOW???!!! ILL NEVER FORGET THIS!! EVER!!! THX THO�"

So here is this athlete, a multi-millionaire who has the best life can offer, a life we can't even imagine. He drops a pass and thinks god has suddenly deserted him? Does he know the history of the human race? Has he ever heard of the holocaust or WW II? Does he have any inkling of the suffering going on with millions of people in history and that continues every day? Yet this man is so egocentric, so oblivious to the reality of the world, that he thinks dropping a pass was some rejection by a god who was just so interested in his game?

You hear these athletes and singers with their endless litany, "God is good. Praise god. It's all on god." Really? If it is all on god, then isn't all the suffering of mankind? It is so easy to be rich and famous, the world literally your oyster, your biggest problem deciding which rich friends house you will party at tonight or what exotic locale you will vacation in for three months and babble on about god being good and have the mind numbing, egomanical conceit that he is interested in your career....while the endless suffering goes on. Or maybe you just are not even aware of what goes on. Maybe you just live in your little bubble of fame, riches and fortune. Maybe you just don't have a clue about the real world.

There is a QB in the NFL who is widely hated. You probable heard of him. His name is Tom Brady. He is hated for many reasons. Too good looking, too good looking a supermodel wife, wins too much. You NFL fans know the drill. All those things never bothered me, because I don't care about them. I actually do like him, even though he has beaten my Steelers more than his fair share. Why? His greatness in one thing I admire, but also because of this, despite all his marvelous games, his many regular season and playoff and super bowl victories, he has never pointed to the sky when he throws a TD, he has never once, not once, in any of his interviews after all those superlative moments and games, said, "It's all about god. God is good." Because Tom Brady knows it's a human game, played by and decided by human endeavor only. And he knows if there is a actually a god who created this universe, he sure isn't sitting in the owners box next to Robert Kraft, watching Tom Brady, giving him a little wink and thumbs up and saying, "Hey Tom, I got this fixed for you, bud."

When you hear all these athletes and entertainers drone on and on about this, you can't help but wonder this: If after the game or the concert or the next award show in front of your thousands of screaming, cheering adoring fans, you got into your three hundred thousand dollar car to get back to your multi-million dollar house, and you got into an accident and ended up a scarred, mutilated quadriplegic, would at your next public appearance, if you decided to have one, would you blow into your straw to spell out on your computer screen, God is good? Somehow, I doubt it.

When I listens to these people, like Lebron, talk about the Big GM who is so concerned in this vast old universe about how their careers proceed, it really makes me wonder how tiny and self centered their world, their universe is.

When you think about how big this universe (s) is, how long it took mankind to come to be on this earth, how much suffering and despair so many millions have lived through and died in, and will for centuries yet to come, I shake my head when I think they have the conceit and hubris to think they have their own private GM sitting in the owners box, all excited and interested if they make dunk, score a bucket, win a game of sports. Or make a hit music record.

It amazes me that they, don't see so clearly that their fortunes and length of their careers will not be decided by some mystical GM upstairs who finally got tired of watching their game, but by the limitations of their physical human bodies and the decision by real life, human GM who one day says, "It's time to retire or I will have to cut you." Because that is the only GM who is watching your game or gives a hoot how you are playing or how long you will play.

A couple last points. I'm sure some will read this and find it as an attack on religion or religious beliefs. It is not. It is my own reflection on how some people become so self centered, so obsessed with their own lives that they make this leap of logic, bring close to themselves this idea that their careers are so important, that some god is watching and pulling the strings for them. In something as totally meaningless as sports, when there is no evidence at all that the same god was interested in things a little more important, like endless human suffering or wars or any litany of bad things that plague us.

Lastly, I do understand Lebron and others of this ilk and mindset, who believe as they do, have that right. They also have the right to point at the sky on every touchdown, tell us how great god is when they have another hit album or TV show, and espouse about how god is so very interested and acutely involved in their successful athletic or entertainment careers while old people will freeze to death tonight and kids will die of cancer today. God sure is good, when you are on the right side of that coin. That warm, fantasy cocoon of a life these people live in. But if they had been in N*zi concentration camp, if they had watched their loved ones stripped naked, beaten, whipped, starved till they weighed 90 pounds, then, when they couldn't work any longer, gassed and burned in an oven, would they tell everyone how good god is or how responsible god is for what has occurred in their lives? Somehow, I doubt it.

It is also my right to shake my head in wonder about how obtuse these people are to nature of reality, to be amazed at the lengths people will go to see themselves as something so special in a universe so large they can't even imagine it. To wallow in the idea that amid all the suffering, trials and travails of humanity, they think some god is watching them, no doubt rooting them on as they wear that athletes jersey, as they play their games. To be so uneducated, so oblivious and unknowing that their own universe is just this little, private, insignificant thing that they have blown up so big. This thing they call themselves. Their own so special lives.

And while I never have written about this before, today, for once, after one stupid comment too many, by another self obsessed athlete, I exercised this right.


Kannaps
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Interesting article and iteresting read Randy.

I'm sorry I won't comment at lenghth on this as my time is lacking and I don't really like to get into this type of discussion by written means on an online forum as I feel there are too many things that have to be analysed for one to actually make a veritable and accurate profile of the situation,way of thought, why it happens and it's consequences. Nonethless your questions and assesments are rather pertinent.

I would like to point out the following commodity though:

Lou Alcindor (brought up as a Roman Catholic) -> 0 titles.

Kareem Abdul Jabaar (Muslim) -> 6 NBA Titles,6 MVP titles, All-time Scorinng, All-star appearances and FG made leader, 3rd all time in blocks & rebounds, 2nd most games played in NBA and most importantly for this case, all time leader in games played.

Credits his stiff physical regime, diet and hard work for his longetivty and neither of the two religious beliefs he held/has.


LakerDymes
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@SPQR On lebron I think your taking things way out of context and making a whole lot out of nothing. When he says it up to the man upstairs he is only talking about the fact that athletes and ordinary people alike don't have full control of what happens to them. A freak injury can end a career for example. He was just using a common expression.


SPQR
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Kannaps wrote:
Credits his stiff physical regime, diet and hard work for his longetivty and neither of the two religious beliefs he held/has.

Joao,

Yep, Kareem was way ahead of his time as far as physical conditioning what you put in your body and how you treated your body. That regime, along with very special genetics were the reasons why he had the longevity he did.

Lakerdymes,

In the context you put it, I agree it is much ado about nothing in Lebron's case. But I have heard him speak of god before a couple of times in a similar vein and in my opinion his statement was literal. I think if that reporter followed up and said, Are you saying god is takes a personal interest in your career and is going to make a decision about when your NBA career will end? he would have answered, yes.

If I am wrong in how I feel his remarks are intended, then Lebron certainly deserves a pass on my feelings about these celebs who endlessly drone on about the good god who is so interested in their careers and successes yet seems to turn a blind eye to the endless history of suffering for "normal" people or the very nature of this world and universe that speaks very clearly about how much some god cares about athletes careers.


gemfow
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Well, I guess this means I need to stop pointing to the big Journalist in the sky after an SPQR post?


SPQR
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gemfow wrote:
Well, I guess this means I need to stop pointing to the big Journalist in the sky after an SPQR post?

Gem, lol, I had a funny feeling you would show up on this thread my friend.

You can put your arm at rest as far as my threads and posts are concerned. They -the good, the bad and the ugly- are stictly my purview and I'm very sure the big Journalist in the sky cares not a bit what I write nor has he/she picked me out for special favor.

Just use that arm to keep making all those great dishes you do so well. Now that is arm well used!


klauztrophobik
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I'll let the atheist circlejerk continue, but I just wanted to express something to SPQR here.

Lebron is in contention for the being the most phenomenal athlete of all-time in all of sport and competition.

Credit his genetics, hard-work and patience while respecting his faith.

You can argue circles about the existence of God to him but guess what you and your views do not matter to him one bit.

The Imaginary Big Guy in the Sky does. And he matters to him tremendously.

That Big Guy is his inspiration, his drive and his motivation to be the best there ever was and will be.

And I just find it cruel and hilarious that you have the nerve to argue against what creates some of the most successful people in our life.

You may not be able to make sense of it. You believe you are right no matter what the context. And to top it all off, you get riled up when somebody else's beliefs differ from yours.

If you had a kid that claimed he had an imaginary friend that pushed him to play phenomenal basketball at a young age, would you argue circles around him to crush his dreams and motivation?

People believe what they believe, because of what they have learned through upbringing. Lebron came from an underprivileged background without a father, where it was the church where he found solace and comfort knowing that the world wasn't all dark and there was another big man looking out for him. And that big man is someone he firmly believes in today. Even if you are the ultimate winner in the battle of rhetoric, he will always be the ultimate winner in the battle of sport.

I am a man of science but I always found it humbling how atheists can be the biggest pricks in the world while spiritual people are some of the happiest, most driven individuals. Science has yet to explain that.


PurpleKnight
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Very intelligent and interesting take Randy. Very well written. I totally get where you are coming from concerning this topic. I can't say that I agree with you completely. But I don't disagree completely neither. I just have have a few things that come to my mind after reading this. First thing is that we can't forget how the inner workings of athletes works. Yes these guys are such ego-maniacs it's not even funny. So it shouldn't surprise us when they think that a higher power is sonehow in their corner. And even worse are the superstar athletes like Lebron when it comes to this. So it doesn't really surprise me to hear super-star athletes say such things. Also we can't forget that athletes need to find motivation from somewhere. And they don't even care if it is fabricated or not. Shaq use to make up slights to pump him up before a game or playoff series and would use that as extra motivation to kill his opponent, Kobe also takes the media not kissing his butt and ranking him #25 in the league as a slight and try to turn that "slight" into motivation. I'm sure Lebron thinking that "the great GM in the sky" caring about how well he puts the ball the hoop motivates him to play better. And it should. Imagine knowing that the almighty is in your corner even when things are looking bleak. I guarantee you that you will push a little harder knowing that the man upstairs wants you to win. These guys will trick their brain into believing almost anything to try to get the upper hand. Btw, there is a book in The Bible about a man who did "give thanks to God" even when he lost everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING). It's....


SPQR
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Klauztrophoibic, A few comments on your comments: First off, peoples beliefs are their own and they have that right to believe what they wish. When a person, especially someone in the public spotlight puts their views to the public via the media, it makes them for public consumption and public response. Not just this issue, but any issue. As an example, when many actors give their views on politics, it will almost always engender a response from all kinds of people via social media and also responses from other people in the media or who hold a different view of said subject. And that is to be expected. If a person puts out an opinion via media, it opens it up for responses. There is nothing wrong with that. There are many people with religious beliefs, or other beliefs, who keep those beliefs to themselves, their families and friends. When you espouse those beliefs to the media, you invite response and discussion. You defend Lebron's right to believe what he wants and say what he wants. And I agree with that. I also defend my right to comment on his public, media comments. But you call what I said an atheistcirclejerk. So you say Lebron has right to say what he wants without comment by others but when I do it is any athiestcirclejerk? That is hypocrisy. At least be consistent in your viewpoint. Lebron's beliefs are his to have. When he and other athletes and entertainers keep putting them out for public consumption then it invites response. I do find it funny that he thinks some god is interested in his career and when it ends, for the reasons I expressed. Simple knowledge and observation of this universe, this world and history of mankind says this is not so. I also know my opinion does....


SPQR
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Craig,

Thanks for the nice words. It is very much appreciated. I agree with what you said about ego. On the whole the bigger ego a person has, the more egocentric way they see themselves, the more predisposed they would be to think that some higher power is watching over them, in a personal way, well, because they are just so special.

I did read Job, Craig. In fact I have read the bible from front to back. Your point is well made. Especially when you look back at that example of that football player who got mad at god because he dropped a pass! Like that was some real hardship or rejection posed by god on him. He has no idea what real hardship is and his comments and attitude were comical in showing how oblivious he is to what other people go through.


lakerdudeinindy
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WOW....for once SPQR I have to disagree with you on some things when it comes to religion. I respect your views, but as a Christian myself, who loves sports, enjoys the wonders of science and marvels at medicine has to say some of your views of Christians are a little archaic. Anyone that has told you that scientist are going to hell, needs to re-read their Bible. In my church there are some doctors and a few young ones studying in college to be scientists, from what I personally don't think they are going to hell. SPQR I can see where the hypocrisy stands out sometimes; the wide receiver for example, but I won't pretend that I understand what LeBron feels and won't take his comments out of context, either. If his faith gives him the platform to say what he says, then so be it. If an atheist or agnostic athlete says how they feel, that's how they feel. LOL.....actually this topic is not bad, because honestly I am not ashamed of my love for Christ, but I don't bring it up on here. Not because I am ashamed, but if someone asked, I would gladly share, BUT I won't tell anyone where they will spend eternity, that's not my job to do that. And won't EVER be my job to do that. And SPQR we both know, because I regard you as an intelligent poster that some facts have been altered, to serve those who want those facts to be served. As much as people constantly point at religion, for pimping and getting what they want out of people, others have done it too and have wrote the book on it. Religion is what it is "religion". A true spiritual relationship is not based on who you accuse or who you....


PurpleKnight
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Randy incredibly beautiful post on the differences between atheism & religion. Great job! I also like how you mention how science is going to be what ultimately determines Lebron's longevity. Excellent point on the irony of this conversation. Repped!


LondonLaker
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Great post. I completely agree that it is the height of arrogance to espouse the belief that god was so interested in a basketball player making the buzzer-beater that he missed the baby falling out of the 20-story window. Firstly, WHICH god? The Trinity? Yahweh? Allah? Funny thing is... according to ALL those guys' NYT best-sellers, the overriding philosophy is to "love thy neighbor", yet we find that in one of the most devout places on Earth - the middle East - people are slaughtering each other over the most minor differences in how they worship the SAME god... just look at Shia/Sunni conflicts. And ANYONE who says scientists are going to hell is a moron. There is a reason that science has long been dubbed "the new religion". It is because scientists and theologians essentially do the same job... search for the ultimate truth. One branch will someday emerge as being "right", but will those who are wrong be punished for eternity? For making an erroneous choice? By the same god that gave them that free will? Not to mention that if man ever does definitively prove god's existence, wouldn't technology (ie: science) likely have played some part in that discovery? I'll tell you who's going to hell - if there IS a hell... child molesters. While I don't claim to know if god exists or not, I think it's a pretty safe bet that inflicting unimaginable suffering on the innocent puts you a lot further up the big guy's "naughty list" than being motivated to make discoveries and advancements to try to alleviate some of the suffering that already exists. Let's not forget... only one of the "truth-seeking" fields has been complicit in a widespread and ongoing conspiracy to perpetuate the atrocity that is child abuse. My beef with religion isn't about....


SPQR
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Lakerdudeinindy, There is no problem with us disagreeing. If we all talk long enough on many issues, we will all eventually disagree about something. I do have to point out that when you say my view of Christians is archaic, not so. It was a Christian who told me scientists would burn in hell. It was his stated opinion. But make no mistake about it, many fundamentalist Christians believe exactly that. So when you say my view of them is archaic, that is false. It is their views that are archaic. I also know that the vast majority of Christians don't believe scientists will burn in hell and gladly embrace the benefits and understandings science has brought us. I also think there is a mindset that any person can have, whether religious or agnostic or atheist. I think the single most relevant and wise sentence ever written is the golden rule. There are many variations of this rule through history, but they all pretty much boild down to this: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Think about that for second. Think about if everyone applied that rule as much as humanly possible in all areas of their lives. I mean really applied it. How many problems in this world would be solved. How different would this planet be? There are many, many good people on this planet, religious, agnostic and atheist. They all try to do the right thing by others. I have never had a problem with people who are religious. Like I said, we all believe what we do. Where I start to have a HUGE problem is when people push their beliefs on the whole. Case in point, Bush stopping that so vital stem cell research or Christians trying to prevent people who love each....


lakerdudeinindy
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Then SPQR, my friend I retract and apologize for my statement of saying your view is archaic and like you said we can agree to disagree, but I truly respect you and how you always find a way to elegantly point out your views. And I will agree that religion can be stuffy and opinated, but for those who truly embrace a personal relationship with God, you don't judge, you pray and try to do the BEST you can to make life great.

And even though this thread has gone different than you have planned, I for one have truly enjoyed it and thank you for putting it out there.


SPQR
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Lakerdudeinindy, No apology necessary. I just wanted to point out that it was his statement that was odd, to say the least. While I enjoy talking both religion and politics, I know how heated this topic can get. I have had many um..strong conversations over the years with friends about it. When my bud said scientists will burn in hell, I'm not even going to tell you what I said back. But I will say that conversation ended rather quickly. But it didn't effect our friendship. He and I probably disagree on anything at all to do with religion or politics. We are a very odd couple friendship. I also know Lakerdudeinindy, that good people are good, whether religious or not. They are a joy to know and really make this world a better place. I know that bad people, religious or not are best avoided and don't add anything to this world we live in. I can tell by the many posts of yours that I have read over the years that you are an intelligent and good person. And believe me, that is something I appreciate and value highly. It has always been a pleasure communicating with you and reading your posts. Including the ones on this thread. Brna, That last sentence you wrote about believing in something, whether it be science, religion or anything, was very thoughtful and interesting. And yes, there is a correlation between belief, whether one believes in religion, science or even sports. I know some people who view sports with a religious fervor. I mean really. My brother is that way. I won't go into detail, but I am often left shaking my head in wonder about how much stock and emotional investment he puts into his favorite sports teams and athletes. It is what he believes in. London....


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Wow, where to begin in adding to/forwarding this discussion. It could go off on 100 tangents. But to simplify, and as a guy who works in show biz, I have too noticed this trend starting about 10 years ago or so. The fact is these are public figures, and my belief (non religious lol) is that publicists, and agents, and the sports leagues and studios themselves perhaps, have said hey guys be humble or you won't be liked. Deflect some amount of praise to something greater than yourself and pple will actually like you more (however they may be horrible pple in their pvt lives, that are best kept pvt.). Don't be arrogant, and the easiest most PC way to do that is give credit to the Big GM. Is this a cynical view? Perhaps. But I'm certain it is so. I get the hypocrisy, historically. Did LBJ reference the Big GM before he went to Miami and started winning? When something goes well, GM gets the credit, when it goes bad the devil is blamed for being stronger that day. And as you've mentioned, looking at history it would surely seem the devil is winning. Only in the movies does one mans ave the world, or does good triumph over evil in spite of the odds that are always against them. Funny that. If you include corrupt bankers and politicians ruining pple's lives, and those same bankers and politicians are generally Jewish or Christian and often go to Church or Synagogue and, like Obama, credit the big GM for everything, while when the public isn't watching they compromise their beliefs with intentionally bad, self indulging behavior. I've had that discussion with many of that ilk. And when when I see them ripping pple off in business I ask how is....


Shepherd
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 10964

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votes: 55

Love it. On what other site could we share a love of all things Purple and Gold, and then debate God, existentialism and gay marriage lol.


BaadMaster
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8539
votes: 98

Amazing thread. A few quick observations...

  1. Re. SPQR's first post: I once asked a biblical scholar, "If God can see into the future and is all powerful, why didn't he have three year old Adolph Hitler die of cholera or get kicked in the head by a horse?" "God works in ways you cannot fathom," was his reply. I could not fathom that reply.

  2. Would we be pondering the cosmos if the Lakers had PJax, D12, a healthy Kobe and we were in first place?

  3. Did God like Dr. Buss more than his son? Or maybe he liked his son more because he didn't have to work for his empire?

  4. Did God make Manu miss the free throw that enabled the Heat to win?

  5. Did God call back Dr. Buss so that LeBron would have an easy path to a lot of titles?

I cannot answer any of these questions. So, I guess I don't know anything therefore I am on LTB.


griZZly64
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 2247
Location: Camarillo, CA
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votes: 22

So nowhere in the trillion page LTB rule book that is always shaken angrily at me does it state that we may not bring up God? It's about the worst subject to bring up online, at work, home, court, public, school, and just about anywhere else I forgot.

I don't want to hear any belly achin next time I point out how stupid the noticeably stupid LTB poster is if this is allowed on the board.


PurpleKnight
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 6817
Location: PurpleKnight
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votes: 109

This thread, although entertaining, has very little actual basketball talk. Should this topic be moved to the "everything else" section. I'm sure many members are staying away based on the actual religious debate going on, even though the title says something different.


LondonLaker
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 786
votes: 6

^ I can bring it back on topic with one simple question...

If 90% of NBA fans supported the Heat and the other 10% supported the lakers, how many people here believe that the Heat fans should be able to pass a law prohibiting anyone for rooting for the lakers?

See what I did there?


zheck13
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 2033
votes: 33

^^lol it's all good. Good conversation never hurt anybody.

I've spotted a new name for our team until The mission is accomplished. .. LOS ANGELES TANKERS.


Dave
Site Admin
Posts: 5279

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votes: 45

Hey guys- I do enjoy reading this discussion- certainly quite a few nice posts in here. But let's stick with the topic at hand of "Kobe, Lebron's Paths Diverge, how Long Will God Love LBJ". Anyone is more than welcome to start a thread at the Everything Else section to continue the debate on religion & philosophical differences that are not Lakers/Kobe related. In fact, I've just split off some of the posts to make this happen.

Thanks guys!


BaadMaster
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8539
votes: 98

SPQR wrote:
...And I would certainly say that I most surely wish people all people, including too many Christians who don't, would try to live up to Jesus's teachings and also jettison the hate of the old testament which was written by some very perverted men.

If you want to get all of Jesus' teaching in one book, there is a book which has ONLY Jesus' words. No disciples words, no Old Testament stuff, just His words and nothing else. His most famous sayings are highlighted for easy reference. It is amazing. Called "His True Words," it shows the true breath and scope of His teachings. Buy it. It is available at histruewords.com

It could change peoples' lives. It has mine.


Dave
Site Admin
Posts: 5279

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votes: 45

BTW the new thread is located at the EE section- here is the direct link:

http://lakers.newssurge.com/PNphpBB2-vi ... 50732.html


MemphisLakerToni
Casual Laker Fan
Posts: 114
votes: 3
I happened upon his Topic and decided to read it because of my good posting acquaintance SPQR. I am with lakerdudeinindy a Christian with very strong beliefs. My life starts with my faith and ends with my faith. My faith is very important to me. It is how I live my life. This is a very heavy topic and I can see why Dave asked for the postings to stop. Everyone has a right to his or her beliefs or non-beliefs. However I have friends and acquaintances that believe and don't believe. This is the world we live in. Shepard, I disagree with your statement somewhat, "Now, it would be hard to argue against a simple fact, blacks are perhaps the most put upon pple on the planet. Sorry I know Jews think they win that distinction, but they're wrong. Not that it is a competition. But I find it ironic that such a large percentage (in either case) of esp hard put upon pple, seem to be the biggest 'believers', tho have perhaps the least reason to be. So then why is that? It's twofold. Tradition. Unlike their more atheistic brethren, they are much more tribal and traditional. Nepotism runs deep in those cultures, as does following the father. They are patriarchal and follow family/clan precedents as much as any die hard republican or democrat. Also, secondly, as a way to try and come up with a simple explanation for hardship. To have something to believe in vs becoming totally despondent. That's why faith works so well for so many, and for AA members. Without it where would they be? As bad as things can be now, without some system to help guide some pple, it would be much worse. So perhaps it all comes down to that. Think....


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