Judgement Time - Trade Players or Die on the Vine

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wise4us
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The grand Laker experiment for 2012 - 2013 season has failed. From Metta claiming the Lakers would win 70 plus games (before the start of the Season) to Kobe telling Howard "to man up", it has been for all practical purposes a half season train wreck. Not the "BIG" question is can the Lakers see the forest for the trees and start to rebuild, using the February trading deadline as their first step forward to a bright future?

I believe the answer is clearly yes, simply because the Los Angeles Lakers have to get younger to be competitive. In other words - Mitch - pull the plug and trade your crown jewels (D. Howard - Pau Gasol) for younger studs, draft picks and the general well being of Laker fans. When you have a starting 40 year old point guard next year and a 35 year old shooting guard in Kobe next year, you better find some young legs now when you have the chance. Howard is no longer Superman, much less a superstar since he can't make 50% of his fee throws, can't stay healthy and can't mature fast enough to satisfy Laker fans and Kobe. And when you mix big ego, with continual cheshire cat smiles, to brick shots at the FT line, to bad back to bad shoulder, to I need my touches you know its time to trade this guy. Pau is still a top five power forward and teams will want him for the playoffs this year and to build around next year. Both these guys are wanted badly by other teams so its time to play your cards and trade them for some mid-twenty studs. We're talking Kevin Love, Lopez, some high draft picks and possibly a solid point guard. Its time to bring back the Fountain of Youth for the betterment of Lakerland, Mitch. Grow old with this group and watch the playoffs year after year from your rocking chair - along with Mr,. Buss. What a sad retirement that would be.


sevankb24
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All I am going to say is that the only untouchables on our team should be Dwight, Kobe, Jordan hill, and earl Clark. No I am not willing to trade Dwight because I'm not going to judge his performance because of his injuries. The media is making him look worse then it really is. I do believe gasol needs to go but not until the offseason. I kind of want to trade Nash too. If we don't make it to the playoffs, it would be nice to have a couple picks for him. I just don't like old players on the roster(Nash,Jamison)


Shaq
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Gasol won't go. He is injured until the trade deadline


wise4us
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Both good replies but sevankb24, you are excluding Howard's past in Orlando. Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman, since he played them like a fiddle for two years? Do you think Van Gundy has fond memories of Howard's lack of maturity and behind the scenes power plays to get him fired? Do you think Superman has improved in free throw shooting since he left Orlando?

Regarding Gasol - he currently does not have a season ending injury. Yes he won't hit the floor until late march, but he is definitely tradeable and will be playoff ready for some playoff bound team this year, Furthermore Pau foot problem (should it continue) through this season can be easily repaired this summer. So Pau comes back next season brand new if he needs foot surgery in June or July.

You think Houston, Minnesota, Atlanta will pass on Gasol if Lakers put him on the trading block. Don't think so.


sevankb24
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wise4us wrote:
Both good replies but sevankb24, you are excluding Howard's past in Orlando. Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman, since he played them like a fiddle for two years? Do you think Van Gundy has fond memories of Howard's lack of maturity and behind the scenes power plays to get him fired? Do you think Superman has improved in free throw shooting since he left Orlando?

Those points are irrelevant. We chose for Dwight to be our next franchise player. We also knew what we were getting with his free throw shooting. He has too much muscle mass to improve is shot.


mhf94
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wise4us wrote:
Both good replies but sevankb24, you are excluding Howard's past in Orlando. Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman, since he played them like a fiddle for two years? Do you think Van Gundy has fond memories of Howard's lack of maturity and behind the scenes power plays to get him fired? Do you think Superman has improved in free throw shooting since he left Orlando?

Regarding Gasol - he currently does not have a season ending injury. Yes he won't hit the floor until late march, but he is definitely tradeable and will be playoff ready for some playoff bound team this year, Furthermore Pau foot problem (should it continue) through this season can be easily repaired this summer. So Pau comes back next season brand new if he needs foot surgery in June or July.

You think Houston, Minnesota, Atlanta will pass on Gasol if Lakers put him on the trading block. Don't think so.

Not the best way to start off on ltb... I'm just happy you're not the GM, let's put it like that... Do you think we could get good value for Pau right now?? Those teams MAY want him but they're certainly not giving us what they would if Gasol was playing right now. We'd get a shitty trade for sure.

"Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman"- uh, yes I think they have fond memories of a guy that took them to the Finals once, and won 3 straight defensive player award. He's one of the best, if not THE best, player in Magic history, so I'm sure they have plenty of good memories with him. You're throwing away a guy who is still recovering from back surgery and, at the same time, is dealing with a shoulder injury. And he's still averaging the best numbers among all centers in the nba. Yes, better than Brook Lopez... His ft shooting hasn't improved, and probably won't, but that doesn't take away the kind of beast he is when healthy, and the kind of dominance he shows.

Trading Gasol and/or Dwight away right now, would most likely ruin our future, because to have them traded we'd have to take back a close amount of salary, and that would kill our cap space for 2014, when we'll have tons of cap space to sign some big free agents, which we always do. So, even if Dwight leaves (which he won't) and even if we suck next season, our best solution is to just ride that, and then hit the free agent market in 2014 and get a young team.


viktorkain
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mhf94 wrote:
wise4us wrote:
Both good replies but sevankb24, you are excluding Howard's past in Orlando. Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman, since he played them like a fiddle for two years? Do you think Van Gundy has fond memories of Howard's lack of maturity and behind the scenes power plays to get him fired? Do you think Superman has improved in free throw shooting since he left Orlando?

Regarding Gasol - he currently does not have a season ending injury. Yes he won't hit the floor until late march, but he is definitely tradeable and will be playoff ready for some playoff bound team this year, Furthermore Pau foot problem (should it continue) through this season can be easily repaired this summer. So Pau comes back next season brand new if he needs foot surgery in June or July.

You think Houston, Minnesota, Atlanta will pass on Gasol if Lakers put him on the trading block. Don't think so.

Not the best way to start off on ltb... I'm just happy you're not the GM, let's put it like that... Do you think we could get good value for Pau right now?? Those teams MAY want him but they're certainly not giving us what they would if Gasol was playing right now. We'd get a shitty trade for sure.

"Do you think the fans in Orlando have fond memories of Superman"- uh, yes I think they have fond memories of a guy that took them to the Finals once, and won 3 straight defensive player award. He's one of the best, if not THE best, player in Magic history, so I'm sure they have plenty of good memories with him. You're throwing away a guy who is still recovering from back surgery and, at the same time, is dealing with a shoulder injury. And he's still averaging the best numbers among all centers in the nba. Yes, better than Brook Lopez... His ft shooting hasn't improved, and probably won't, but that doesn't take away the kind of beast he is when healthy, and the kind of dominance he shows.

Trading Gasol and/or Dwight away right now, would most likely ruin our future, because to have them traded we'd have to take back a close amount of salary, and that would kill our cap space for 2014, when we'll have tons of cap space to sign some big free agents, which we always do. So, even if Dwight leaves (which he won't) and even if we suck next season, our best solution is to just ride that, and then hit the free agent market in 2014 and get a young team.

I disagree Howard will more than likely leave because he is immature and really does not like being in LA. A mature player would just ignore all of the BS and the press and do his job. Howard loafs while on court and shows little to no effort or interest.... He really does need to be traded before he leaves us with nothing. Mitch saying he wont trad him is Mitch shooting the franchise in the foot. The only good thing that could come from Howard walking is that his money would be off the books. Also if we trade Dwight we could get equal value right the hell now. Dwight to Brooklyn Lopez to Minnesota and K Love (who is unhappy in Minnesota) to the Lakers.


TheLegendaryDino
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main problem is that they hired a wrong coach for this team.. now they are paying the price. Dantoni does not using lakers big men effectively.. and I don't think big men fit for his system anyway.. Question is, do you trade players away and get players that fit his system? or give another season and see how it going? or get new coach?


lakerdudeinindy
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TheLegendaryDino wrote:
main problem is that they hired a wrong coach for this team.. now they are paying the price. Dantoni does not using lakers big men effectively.. and I don't think big men fit for his system anyway.. Question is, do you trade players away and get players that fit his system? or give another season and see how it going? or get new coach?

I admit I would want a new coach. D'Antoni has done a MORE than a few things that show that his time in New York has taught him nothing.

  1. He is made less for LA than Howard is...eveyone said Howard is a diva, DivAntoni has went to the media on his best big men and this guy wonder why he is not respected?

  2. Can't make any adjustments. He couldn't adjust his pants if they were around his feet. Teams don't have to scout us much, this guy DOES NOT adjust and when teams are really kicking our tails D'Antoni has that befuddled look on his face. Watch him and you will see.

  3. He is beyond stubborn. That is the same mess that killed in New York

    If the Lakers keep him. I promise we will be know as the Los Angles Knicks and New York fans are laughing there butts off, because they experienced this mediocrity for years.


LuvDaLakers
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Trade Howard while we maybe can still get "something" for him. If only draft picks it be better than nothing, I mean he is playing awful and might not ever get back to his old self.


GhostNugget
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wise4us wrote:
The grand Laker experiment for 2012 - 2013 season has failed. From Metta claiming the Lakers would win 70 plus games (before the start of the Season) to Kobe telling Howard "to man up", it has been for all practical purposes a half season train wreck. Not the "BIG" question is can the Lakers see the forest for the trees and start to rebuild, using the February trading deadline as their first step forward to a bright future?

I believe the answer is clearly yes, simply because the Los Angeles Lakers have to get younger to be competitive. In other words - Mitch - pull the plug and trade your crown jewels (D. Howard - Pau Gasol) for younger studs, draft picks and the general well being of Laker fans. When you have a starting 40 year old point guard next year and a 35 year old shooting guard in Kobe next year, you better find some young legs now when you have the chance. Howard is no longer Superman, much less a superstar since he can't make 50% of his fee throws, can't stay healthy and can't mature fast enough to satisfy Laker fans and Kobe. And when you mix big ego, with continual cheshire cat smiles, to brick shots at the FT line, to bad back to bad shoulder, to I need my touches you know its time to trade this guy. Pau is still a top five power forward and teams will want him for the playoffs this year and to build around next year. Both these guys are wanted badly by other teams so its time to play your cards and trade them for some mid-twenty studs. We're talking Kevin Love, Lopez, some high draft picks and possibly a solid point guard. Its time to bring back the Fountain of Youth for the betterment of Lakerland, Mitch. Grow old with this group and watch the playoffs year after year from your rocking chair - along with Mr,. Buss. What a sad retirement that would be.

You talk like Dwight is 34 years old or something.


Lakeshow07
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I dont buy too much into this coach thing. Heat won w Spo, Lebron went to the finals w Mike Brown. Does Mike D play out there and shoot 3s? How about does get stripped? Howard is waiting on his big contract to start playing again. I can't blame him, Kobe and Nash don't like it because they want to win now. Simple as that. Guys are not on the same page plus Dwight doesn't get enough touches IMO. Not defending the guy, because honestly I think he needs to man up and start demanding the ball


renteria24
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Lakeshow07 wrote:
I dont buy too much into this coach thing. Heat won w Spo, Lebron went to the finals w Mike Brown. Does Mike D play out there and shoot 3s? How about does get stripped? Howard is waiting on his big contract to start playing again. I can't blame him, Kobe and Nash don't like it because they want to win now. Simple as that. Guys are not on the same page plus Dwight doesn't get enough touches IMO. Not defending the guy, because honestly I think he needs to man up and start demanding the ball

Spo is actually a pretty good coach. before the big 3 he had the heat fighting for the 7-8 seed with just wade. I see where your coming from though.


wise4us
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This board - Laker management needs to Wake Up. You don't win NBA championships with over the hill players and a center that doesn't get along with coaches or star players. Nash can't play "D". Never has, never will. Metta is not fluid and can't stop LeBron, Durant, or anyone with fast feet.. Gasol, Metta, Kobe, Nash, Antwan, all over 33 years old. Some way over 33 years old. So Keeping Howard is the answer to this aging team? (HA). Howard is the fountain of youth and glue to keep this team together in 2014? (HA)

When your team is four games out of the last playoff position (8 seed) and its halfway through the season, you do the only rational thing you can. You trade two of your all star players (Howard and Gasol) for very good younger players and draft picks. Its a no brainer and accomplishes two things. Set Lakers up for a playoff run next year and possible NBA final in two - three years. Also trades would eliminate lock room turmoil and get everyone back on the same page. Where ever Howard goes he brings a "soap opera" mentality with him. And he also brings (heart break) game after game with his missed free throws.

So if your the GM of the Lakers you walk into Mr. Buss office this week and boldly state - I'm going to move our two (bigs) and trade Gasol and Howard for Kevin Love, Nets Lopez and multiple draft picks. And bingo at the end of the day the Lakers are younger, more in tune with each other and playing for a "bright" future. Change or stagnate - that the real question guys.


ameth
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LuvDaLakers wrote:
Trade Howard while we maybe can still get "something" for him. If only draft picks it be better than nothing, I mean he is playing awful and might not ever get back to his old self.

How many times do I keep saying that am I ignored on this very opinion of Dwight Howard?

Most people have to be blind to see that the only positive from this trade is that we got rid of Josh McRoberts, Christian Eyenga, gained a name that people covet (and are idiots for coveting), and gaining Earl Clark.

Bynum was the better player and is still (in my opinion) the better player. Dwight has no athleticism, is unwilling to contribute when he can (missing an obvious open dunk that was available while he was under the basket in the 1st quarter for a little put back), and is creating a problem just like in Orlando.

No needs his temper tantrums.


lilman2834
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I couldn't say its Mike d. System .cus pau was getting off before he got injured . Its more of " can u score when u do get the ball " if u keep.missing .like Dwight is n getting stripped . Pass to someone else . I really can't believe Dwight hasn't practiced with Kareem yet,as much as he gets stripped . He teaches you how to keep the ball high !!!!


lakedson
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Just curious, how bad can it be if we keep Dwight then he walks out for free agency after this season.... Will that give us more cap space to get another very good player?


So-CalTE
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I feel like if the Lakers keep their current team and get healthy next year they will be ok... With that being said I think that they need to get an athletic small forward and get rid of Metta... Or at least start Pau with Earl and then take out Pau bump Earl to the four and Kobe to the three and bring in Meeks or Blake. Also they need a good point guard off the bench. If they got that small forward and point guard they would be fine. Think about all the energy that a bench with Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, Jodie Meeks and a good point guard would bring.


DeezBrown
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lakedson wrote:
Just curious, how bad can it be if we keep Dwight then he walks out for free agency after this season.... Will that give us more cap space to get another very good player?

The Lakers will be in the same position they were in the previous off season, meaning they will not beable to add players over the mini mid level since they will be over the cap with or without D12.


Axle
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Very interesting suggestions as to what the Lakers should do with Howard.

Personally I think Howard should not string along the Lakers like he done to the Magic. Either he wants to be a Laker and resign NOW, and if he refuses to sign now, THEN he is playing us just like he did his former team. IF he is playing his little games again and just can not make up his mind whether he wants to be a Laker, THEN Mitch has no choice but to get something for him and trade him away. But Mitch has to approach this guy before the end of the season where he can stick it to the Lakers and go on free agency.

Now as to whether the Lakers blow up the team now? That would be insane to start from scratch. To play the D'Antoni system the Lakers need to get some sharpe shooters that can make shots, like a Reddick, and there are many out there that would fit perfect into A "D'Antoni system.

I would trade MWP, Pau, Duhan and Ebanks if the Lakers are not going to use him. That is five players for lets say one good power forward that is still under 27 years old, one good shooting guard and a good shooting small forward. This would work perfect in a D'Antoni system.

D'Antoni is not going to get fired I could almost guarantee that. The Lakers are already paying other head coaches that have been let go that were still under contract. D'Antoni has a three year contract. The only way D'Antoni would leave is if he resigns on his own.

No doubt Kobe needs help on spreading the defenses and the only way that can happen is by these other players making shots. Other teams are leaving Laker players wide open challenging them to make the shots because they know that the Lakers do not have players that are confident enough to even take a shot. That way they can afford to double Kobe and triple Howard.


Hollywood_Randy
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Repped High Quality Post
There is nothing to gain by making a trade, even if it helps the Lakers win a few more games. There is no point in that. You all need to understand that the Future is what is at stake here. The two key elements to the future is the new salary cap, and the 2015 free agent class. I want a ring every year just like you guys. But OKC and MIAMI are so far ahead of the Lakers for this year and next year, the Lakers would have to sign players and make trades for players with contracts that go beyond 2015. It is clear, by the way the Lakers are clearing the payroll and letting contracts expire after 2014 season, that the Lakers main concerns are that salary cap and the free agent market in 2015. IF the Lakers can successfully keep new contracts off the books the Lakers will have the most money and leverage to sign at least 2 superstars and some nice role players AND stay close to the salary cap. Players who will be available in 2015. LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Dwayne Wade, Kyrie Irving and just about every other superstar in the league EXCEPT Dwight Howard, chris paul and Derek Rose. Go google NBA 2015 free agents, and check out that list. It's crazy to think about the combinations of players the Lakers could start a new era with. I think what the Lakes did, was gambled on this SUPER team as a last effort to get a ring with Kobe as the center piece before the 2015 free agency bonanza. Unfortunately, the gamble didn't pay off this year. I honestly don't think they will try to squeeze out a ring next year with a bunch of new players. Especially with OKC and Miami hitting their primes. Look, I want the Lakers to....


wise4us
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Breaking News - Pau Gasol the Lakers forward-center confirmed he will not have surgery on the torn plantar fascia in his right foot. So Mitch now has the "green light" to trade Gasol and Howard before trading deadline and "right the ship". Gasol will recover quickly without surgery and could be playing for another team come mid March. So he is very tradeable. Top (3) power forward in the League or possibly top (3) center in the league - you know other teams will want him now since Pau should be fully recovered this season and at full power next season. Howard is pretty much telling Lakers to trade him NOW. You don't hear Howard saying "I want to be a Laqker for life or I want to make L.A. my home". Nope - just the opposite. Howard is saying I need to go some where else when I get my touches, fans don't complain about missed free throws and I can be the man but not the scape goat if my new team goes on a losing streak.

Trade Howard and Gasol or die on the Vine.


KS_v2
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wise4us wrote:
Breaking News - Pau Gasol the Lakers forward-center confirmed he will not have surgery on the torn plantar fascia in his right foot. So Mitch now has the "green light" to trade Gasol and Howard before trading deadline and "right the ship". Gasol will recover quickly without surgery and could be playing for another team come mid March. So he is very tradeable. Top (3) power forward in the League or possibly top (3) center in the league - you know other teams will want him now since Pau should be fully recovered this season and at full power next season. Howard is pretty much telling Lakers to trade him NOW. You don't hear Howard saying "I want to be a Laqker for life or I want to make L.A. my home". Nope - just the opposite. Howard is saying I need to go some where else when I get my touches, fans don't complain about missed free throws and I can be the man but not the scape goat if my new team goes on a losing streak.

Trade Howard and Gasol or die on the Vine.

Did you NOT read Hollywood_randy's post????

Also, the team isn't the problem. It's the timing of the injuries that's been killing this team from gaining any sort of traction........

I'd rather we go all in for next year and then start anew in '15.


DeezBrown
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Really don't see the point making a trade this late into the game. It's not like they are "one piece away" from making this team a legit contender. This team needs a serious overhaul and fortunately or unfortunately, depending how you look at this situation, that won't happen until the end of next year. We haven't seen the Lakers start from scratch since the 90's so I don't want to see these guys in the FO add players that won't have a serious impact just to trade away D12 or Pau. Get under the cap and see what a fresh will bring for the 2014-15 season. This all depends on D12 leaving btw, if he stays then everything I wrote goes out the window. Moving Pau would have to happen and he would get more for the Lakers next season than now.

Waiting out the storm is the best option.


trialsNtribulations
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I dont see Mitch doing anything really but I am not in that man's head nor am I proclaiming to be clairvoyant..just going on instincts and comments from Lakers FO I keep reading..


wise4us
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Seems many here think Superman will resign with lakers. Please tell me why other then he can make 20 million more over any other team offer? And pleae do tell what Lakers get back in return if Howard jumps ship this summer? You know the answer to that. A big fat "Nothing".

If Lakers don't have the balls to trade Howard now then I have a suggestion to appease the "Keep Superman at all cost" crowd. Come the end of the season and when Lakers can make there official offer to Howard I would like to see Buss offer Dwight five million over any other team offer. So if Houston or Dallas or Atlanta can only offer say 88 million for Howard, then the Lakers should offer 93 million. Take it or leave it. If Howard takes it Lakers have money to spend in 2014 or 2015. If Howard jumps let him and pocket your money for another day. Howard screwed up Orlando Magic big time - don't want to see him do that to Lakers.


Axle
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If Howard wants to be a Lakers Mitch will sign him on, but it seems like Howard has not made up his mind as to whether he wants to stay here or not. He already bought a 16 million dollar house in California, so I do believe he likes living here.

I do believe that Mitch will make some small changes before the trading deadline, but who knows what is going through that mans brain.


mhf94
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wise4us wrote:
Seems many here think Superman will resign with lakers. Please tell me why other then he can make 20 million more over any other team offer? And pleae do tell what Lakers get back in return if Howard jumps ship this summer? You know the answer to that. A big fat "Nothing".

If Lakers don't have the balls to trade Howard now then I have a suggestion to appease the "Keep Superman at all cost" crowd. Come the end of the season and when Lakers can make there official offer to Howard I would like to see Buss offer Dwight five million over any other team offer. So if Houston or Dallas or Atlanta can only offer say 88 million for Howard, then the Lakers should offer 93 million. Take it or leave it. If Howard takes it Lakers have money to spend in 2014 or 2015. If Howard jumps let him and pocket your money for another day. Howard screwed up Orlando Magic big time - don't want to see him do that to Lakers.

Your posts are ridiculous. Everyone of them. What reasons does he have to stay?? Well, besides the 30+ millions you already mentioned, he'd be in the best situation possible for him. Where is he going then?? Atlanta? Great team they'll have there, and great franchise... Dallas?? Team up with Nowitski, who's declining by the hour, and a bunch of losers? Sure, both of those options are much better than staying with a team of Kobe, Pau, Nash and even some young devoloping players like Hill and Clark (and even Morris). Better than staying with the best franchise in the history of the nba, a franchise that will be handed to him one or two years from now. Staying with a team with all the cap space needed in 2014 to build a great team around him, and it's a pretty safe bet they'll be able to. Much safer than thinking Atlanta or Dallas will be able to put a successful, championship caliber team around him. And where do you think he prefers to live? In LA, Atlanta or Dallas?? Lool you don't even need to answer that one...

So there are 3 main topics of concern for where he'll go: money, championships and living situation. Money: Lakers. Championships: Lakers. Living situation: LA.


wise4us
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Gee mhf94,

Sorry if I ht a nerve in your limited brain. As I remember the Lakers have been in the playoffs pretty much year after year, probably going all the way back before you were born. Now with Superman on board guess what - Lakers miss playoffs. But let's not rehash the past, since its better to look to the future. This year is a wash for the Lakers. Blame it on what ever you want but the team's players never meshed. And now we have Nash putting Howard in his place during the Miami game for not playing "Head's Up Basketball". Nash is a pretty cool dude and hard to upset - but Superman got him steamed. This is a guy mhf94, you want to offer a Max Contract to (HA) Oh and how many times did Mr. Howard steam Van Gundy over the years? Maybe a thousand times?

Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud. Or to be easy on Superman just no long a Super Star worth a max contract. The Lakers are all about the playoffs but Howard is all about "Me". Big difference, but I'm not sure you can tell the difference mhf94. But again looking towards the future - one would think this year Howard would be on his best behavior since he is a free agent come this summer. Problem here is D.H is not on his best behavior. He is complaining to every one who listens (even his dad) and getting no where. The scary thing is think how Mr. Howard will act once he signs a four or five year contract with the Lakers. Things then will be ten times worse because Howard will have Lakers over a barrel, sucking their 110 million dollar contract dry and complaining he is not appreciated, not getting his touches and not the Lakers number one option. Its Deja vu all over again. History repeats itself mhf94. Better wake up before you realize its to late and the Los Angeles Lakers have turned into the Orlando Magic - losers season after season, after season.


mhf94
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wise4us wrote:
Gee mhf94,

Sorry if I ht a nerve in your limited brain. As I remember the Lakers have been in the playoffs pretty much year after year, probably going all the way back before you were born. Now with Superman on board guess what - Lakers miss playoffs. But let's not rehash the past, since its better to look to the future. This year is a wash for the Lakers. Blame it on what ever you want but the team's players never meshed. And now we have Nash putting Howard in his place during the Miami game for not playing "Head's Up Basketball". Nash is a pretty cool dude and hard to upset - but Superman got him steamed. This is a guy mhf94, you want to offer a Max Contract to (HA) Oh and how many times did Mr. Howard steam Van Gundy over the years? Maybe a thousand times?

Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud. Or to be easy on Superman just no long a Super Star worth a max contract. The Lakers are all about the playoffs but Howard is all about "Me". Big difference, but I'm not sure you can tell the difference mhf94. But again looking towards the future - one would think this year Howard would be on his best behavior since he is a free agent come this summer. Problem here is D.H is not on his best behavior. He is complaining to every one who listens (even his dad) and getting no where. The scary thing is think how Mr. Howard will act once he signs a four or five year contract with the Lakers. Things then will be ten times worse because Howard will have Lakers over a barrel, sucking their 110 million dollar contract dry and complaining he is not appreciated, not getting his touches and not the Lakers number one option. Its Deja vu all over again. History repeats itself mhf94. Better wake up before you realize its to late and the Los Angeles Lakers have turned into the Orlando Magic - losers season after season, after season.

Ok, let me just pick up on some of the things you wrote. You even make stuff up lol. Dwight steamed Nash?? Lol I can't remember that... Do I want to give a max contract to a former 3 times dpoy?? Yes. As do the Lakers and 29 other teams if they had a chance. That's a no brainer. "Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud" This one is the best ahah. Don't you remember a guy called Shaquille O'Neal?? He was the lakers center through 3 championships and he had multiple seasons hitting less than half of his free throws. Fraud!!! Then you say history repeats itself. Do you know how ridiculous you sound first arguing everything you are arguing and then saying history repeats itself??? Well, if history repeats itself than the Lakers will keep Dwight, because they have never lost a big free agent, and he will bring championships to LA and the lakers won't be losers season after season. It's that simple.


sevankb24
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 5168
votes: 18

Quote:
Ok, let me just pick up on some of the things you wrote. You even make stuff up lol. Dwight steamed Nash?? Lol I can't remember that... Do I want to give a max contract to a former 3 times dpoy?? Yes. As do the Lakers and 29 other teams if they had a chance. That's a no brainer. "Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud" This one is the best ahah. Don't you remember a guy called Shaquille O'Neal?? He was the lakers center through 3 championships and he had multiple seasons hitting less than half of his free throws. Fraud!!! Then you say history repeats itself. Do you know how ridiculous you sound first arguing everything you are arguing and then saying history repeats itself??? Well, if history repeats itself than the Lakers will keep Dwight, because they have never lost a big free agent, and he will bring championships to LA and the lakers won't be losers season after season. It's that simple.

well in his defense, Shaq is completely different compared to Dwight. Shaq is considered 1 if not the most dominant center in nba history. He actually had MVP expectations and won an MVP award, we cant say the same for Dwight who has never averaged more then 23ppg. Dont get me wrong I want Dwight, but I was just pointing out that Shaqs free throws were not a reason to throw him away lol.


mhf94
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 1974
Location: Portugal
votes: 14

sevankb24 wrote:
Quote:
Ok, let me just pick up on some of the things you wrote. You even make stuff up lol. Dwight steamed Nash?? Lol I can't remember that... Do I want to give a max contract to a former 3 times dpoy?? Yes. As do the Lakers and 29 other teams if they had a chance. That's a no brainer. "Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud" This one is the best ahah. Don't you remember a guy called Shaquille O'Neal?? He was the lakers center through 3 championships and he had multiple seasons hitting less than half of his free throws. Fraud!!! Then you say history repeats itself. Do you know how ridiculous you sound first arguing everything you are arguing and then saying history repeats itself??? Well, if history repeats itself than the Lakers will keep Dwight, because they have never lost a big free agent, and he will bring championships to LA and the lakers won't be losers season after season. It's that simple.

well in his defense, Shaq is completely different compared to Dwight. Shaq is considered 1 if not the most dominant center in nba history. He actually had MVP expectations and won an MVP award, we cant say the same for Dwight who has never averaged more then 23ppg. Dont get me wrong I want Dwight, but I was just pointing out that Shaqs free throws were not a reason to throw him away lol.

I know I know, I really wasn't comparing both. Dwight's nothing compared to Shaq. But he just said when a guy hits less than half of his free throws he's a fraud. Therefore Shaq, independently of how better he is than Dwight, is a fraud.


wise4us
NewsSurge Newbie
Age: 59
Posts: 42
Location: VA
votes: 0

Unfortunately you and I just agree to disagree. But hey - read further and maybe you will change your mind.

The Democratic vice presidential nominee replied curtly: “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”

Now lets change things around a little - since the board here knows the real truth.

The Best Laker of all Time (Kobe Bryant) replied - Howard, I played with Shaquille O'Neal. I knew Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq was (sometimes) was a friend of mine. Howard - your no Shaquille O'Neal.

Shag lifetime FT percentage 52%

Howard Laker FT percentage 48%

So sad and guess what - Howard's FT numbers will get worse as he gets older.

I'll say a few things (positive) about Howard. When healthy he is a monster in rebounding and a top notch defender. He also posts good numbers (percentage wise) shooting anywhere other then the free throw line. The problem with Howard is (a) he is not a leader (b) not necessarily a team player (c) not really coachable. When you sign someone to a Max Contract you want the good with the good. Not the good with the bad. Kobe smells trouble with Howard being around. Nash now smells trouble with Howard being around and we know Gasol smells trouble with Howard being around. All three have stated so.

Time for Howard to get out of Dodge before he is ridden out.


wise4us
NewsSurge Newbie
Age: 59
Posts: 42
Location: VA
votes: 0
The Laker game versus Miami really exposed the lack of energy/effort with Howard and also his run in with Nash. Trade Howard and Gasol or die on the vine. It's normally silly to attach much symbolic importance to any one thing among the hundreds that happen in an NBA game, but it's irresistible here. Dwight Howard, once the league's greatest defender and rebounder, wants absolutely no part of the fight LeBron James takes to him. Howard hopes to earn the rebound by simply planting himself below the hoop under the assumption that this alone will be enough. James darts right around him for inside position, and he doesn't stop once there. He rams his back into Howard's chest, uprooting the man whose official Web site once boasted "resembles a 6-11 bronze statue of Apollo," and follows it up with two hard elbows to Howard's chest. And Howard just accepts all of this before meekly retreating on defense. Howard's duty here is to get back on defense once he realizes the odds of an offensive rebound are against him, so some of his submission is justifiable under normal NBA strategy. And Howard has a painful shoulder injury on top of his recovery from back surgery. But it's hard to watch this and not think about how one player has emerged from a difficult storm as a stronger all-around force, while the other has quaked under similar pressures, some of which he created himself. Nash News During the third quarter of the Sunday’s afternoon game between the Lakers and the Heat, the normally cathartic Steve Nash snapped at the increasingly polarizing Dwight Howard. Nash was furious that Howard was not able to grab his bounce pass, while Howard was upset that Nash didn’t lob him the ball. The turnover led to a....


userpete1037
LNS HOF Platinum
Posts: 20029
Location: Kobe, Kalifornia
us.gif
votes: 18

Die on the vine. Nobody's getting traded. I'll believe it when I see it.


Axle
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 14954
Location: Axle
votes: 71

mhf94 wrote:
wise4us wrote:
Gee mhf94,

Sorry if I ht a nerve in your limited brain. As I remember the Lakers have been in the playoffs pretty much year after year, probably going all the way back before you were born. Now with Superman on board guess what - Lakers miss playoffs. But let's not rehash the past, since its better to look to the future. This year is a wash for the Lakers. Blame it on what ever you want but the team's players never meshed. And now we have Nash putting Howard in his place during the Miami game for not playing "Head's Up Basketball". Nash is a pretty cool dude and hard to upset - but Superman got him steamed. This is a guy mhf94, you want to offer a Max Contract to (HA) Oh and how many times did Mr. Howard steam Van Gundy over the years? Maybe a thousand times?

Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud. Or to be easy on Superman just no long a Super Star worth a max contract. The Lakers are all about the playoffs but Howard is all about "Me". Big difference, but I'm not sure you can tell the difference mhf94. But again looking towards the future - one would think this year Howard would be on his best behavior since he is a free agent come this summer. Problem here is D.H is not on his best behavior. He is complaining to every one who listens (even his dad) and getting no where. The scary thing is think how Mr. Howard will act once he signs a four or five year contract with the Lakers. Things then will be ten times worse because Howard will have Lakers over a barrel, sucking their 110 million dollar contract dry and complaining he is not appreciated, not getting his touches and not the Lakers number one option. Its Deja vu all over again. History repeats itself mhf94. Better wake up before you realize its to late and the Los Angeles Lakers have turned into the Orlando Magic - losers season after season, after season.

Ok, let me just pick up on some of the things you wrote. You even make stuff up lol. Dwight steamed Nash?? Lol I can't remember that... Do I want to give a max contract to a former 3 times dpoy?? Yes. As do the Lakers and 29 other teams if they had a chance. That's a no brainer. "Laker Fans can spot a fraud a mile away and if a guy can't hit more then half his free throws he is a fraud" This one is the best ahah. Don't you remember a guy called Shaquille O'Neal?? He was the lakers center through 3 championships and he had multiple seasons hitting less than half of his free throws. Fraud!!! Then you say history repeats itself. Do you know how ridiculous you sound first arguing everything you are arguing and then saying history repeats itself??? Well, if history repeats itself than the Lakers will keep Dwight, because they have never lost a big free agent, and he will bring championships to LA and the lakers won't be losers season after season. It's that simple.

Mhf94, it is true what wise4us posted about Nash and Dwight. There is a big article on that story on Fan Nation.


Axle
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 14954
Location: Axle
votes: 71

Wise4us has pointed out a lot of truth about Howard. But I really believe that Mitch will try his best to sign up this guy. Maybe he has not being pushing himself to much because of the injuries he has had. But maybe once he is healed up he will return to the center we all expected.

The only thing that I do not want is for him to string the Lakers to the last second as to whether he is going to fly the coup or sign with the Lakers because if he is not signing Mitch could be making arrangements to go after somebody else. He has to man up to a decision one way or the other. Even if he does not sign with the Lakers I am sure we will be OK.


lakersumum
NewsSurge Newbie
Posts: 12
votes: 0

DIE IN VINE???? HAHAHAHA


wise4us
NewsSurge Newbie
Age: 59
Posts: 42
Location: VA
votes: 0

Axle wrote:
Wise4us has pointed out a lot of truth about Howard. But I really believe that Mitch will try his best to sign up this guy. Maybe he has not being pushing himself to much because of the injuries he has had. But maybe once he is healed up he will return to the center we all expected.

The only thing that I do not want is for him to string the Lakers to the last second as to whether he is going to fly the coup or sign with the Lakers because if he is not signing Mitch could be making arrangements to go after somebody else. He has to man up to a decision one way or the other. Even if he does not sign with the Lakers I am sure we will be OK.

All the more reason to cut to the chase now versus some far off summer date regarding the future of D. Howard with the Lakers. This weekend Buss, Mitch, Dwight and Dwight's agent sit down and Lakers present a long term offer (I'd prefer something just above the competition - salary wise) but lets make it easy for everyone and say Lakers offer Max contract. The stipulation is Howard accepts Now, before trading deadline. Now what in the world is wrong with that picture? Nothing if you are in the sign Howard camp at all costs. Lakers find out the weekend if Howard wants to be a long term Laker. Lakers are making offer even with Superman injured, performing below past standards and knowing Howard is a knuckle head. Howard has the right to accept or reject. If he accepts Lakers fans take a pause because the guy is going to be around for a while. The Press backs off because Howard says - even with everything going "bad" now I'm putting my future with Lakers.

But if Howard and his agent tell Lakers they will not commit to any team until this summer, then Lakers have no choice (or are a fool) but to try to trade Howard before February trading deadline. Why in the world would Lakers want to still try to go after Howard if he turned down a max contract this coming weekend? You know the saying. "Fool me once shame on you - Fool me twice shame on me".

Lets find out this weekend if the Lakers want to end "game time" this weekend with Superman. If not then its Orlando Magic time and the Howard circus continues through the summer and everyone waits to find out where the 48% free throw shooter will sign next year.

Time to go fishing this weekend or cut bait on Monday.


pedigree
Serious Laker Fan
Posts: 234
Location: los angeles
calif.gif
votes: 1

The Cba does not allow for contract discussions during the season. You can discuss terms and make offers after July first. The deadline to discuss terms and extensions have past. Dwight and the front office will have to wait for the off season to discuss again


TERRY-TEAGLE
Laker GM
Posts: 3664
Location: Belmont Shores,CA
votes: 41

Keep Kobe , Hill, Clark... Everybody else is expendable

In a few years get K Love, K Irving and back a run at BRON...all unselfish players and hard workers

DYNASTY


wise4us
NewsSurge Newbie
Age: 59
Posts: 42
Location: VA
votes: 0
When you read reliable reports like these day in, day out you know Lakers need to make changes and make them before the Feb. 27 trading deadline. My assumption is Mitch wants to make changes but Buss Jr. is over ruling him and possibly setting the Lakers up for several upcoming years out of the playoffs. Now that is one scary thought. In a interview with the LA Times, Gasol has noted that if the current lineup persists, he will look for a fresh start elsewhere. So trade him now. And this We may have finally found the cause. Howard is apparently the guy that is messing everything up. “What's wrong with you if the Greatest Teammate Ever is fed up with you?” asked OC Register writer Kevin Ding in a recent column. The Greatest Teammate Ever being referenced there is Nash, of course, a guy who spent the better part of his career making other guys rich by padding their stat totals. Why was Nash fed up with Howard? Ding broke down a particularly troubling sequence from this week’s showdown between the Lakers and Miami Heat. “Nash drove and was trapped on the baseline by two Miami defenders, Udonis Haslem about to force Nash out of bounds and Mario Chalmers also there between Nash and Howard, who stood deep in the paint. The other three Lakers had the floor spaced the way Mike D'Antoni wants, all behind the 3-point arc, so no other Heat player could get to Howard. “Howard had time to stand there, stare at Nash and the two Heat players, hold his arms up and wave them. So Howard's eyes and arms were working. Tragically, his legs and feet were not.Are we going to chalk this up to after effects from his April back surgery, too?” Yes its....


wise4us
NewsSurge Newbie
Age: 59
Posts: 42
Location: VA
votes: 0

So who kicks Howard in the axx next year when he has 110 million in his back pocket and says "Hey the Lakers can take my 40% free throw shooting and stick it up where the sun don't shine? Not Laker coach. Not Mitch and probably not Kobe since Kobe has already told Laker management this year (in so many words) that D. Howard only plays for himself.

And what happens if Howard says no to any shoulder surgery this off season, only to tell the media next season that his shoulder is hurting and he might only be 80%? Worried that Superman might play the Lakers like a fiddle and all Buss Jr. can do is say, "I ain't my old man".



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