The sad predictable, inevitable end of Kobe Bean Bryant. (P. 4)

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lakernet79
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SPQR wrote:
Quote:

Looks like Kobe shutted some little hater s mouths A G A I N

lol,

KobeforGoat you really are the funniest thing going. What he did was prove me and the others who said he had to change right and you wrong! And all the other Kobephiles like you who just wanted Kobe to shoot, shoot, shoot all the live long day.

He showed that by playing the way I and some others (and his teamates) here have wanted for the last three years, this team is so much better.

He showed by playing his brand of Kobeball, that helps his scoring but kills the TEAM, he wasted the last two years and probably destroyed our chances to make the playoffs this year and certainly ended any hope for homecourt.

Now lets see if he can keep his ego in check and play the rest of the season and his career in a way that helps this team, not destroys it.

You really are funny to read. You get totally repudiated in what you say, Kobe himself shows how destructive his own brand of Kobeball was this year, and you say he shut people up, lol.

Yeah, he shut you up. And he shut up the idea of Kobeball, at 34, with this team as being the most effective method down, forever.

Priceless Goat, just priceless. Yeah, he shut his critics up. Like Germany shut up the allies in WW II. (PS: Germany lost)

Ah yes, one of my favorite logical fallacies…Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Latin for after this, therefore because of this”. In short, you are saying Kobe changed his game therefore the Lakers won. On one level this could be true but in reality it was so much more than just Kobe.

Just as I did not agree with your original assessment that Kobe was the cause of the Lakers losing, I do not agree with your current assessment that the Lakers are winning solely because of Kobe. Shocking coming from a so called Kobephile that I do not give him all the credit when things go right? Keep peeling that onion, there’s more. Yes Kobe did change his game and was looking to pass the ball first. But what else changed about this team? Did players not named Kobe all of the sudden decide to cut to the basket which enabled Kobe to get the assist? Did the players make more of an effort on the defensive end and start communicating more? Could Pau’s comments be true and the Lakers are going a little bit away from the D’Antoni system? Building on that last point, could it be that Kobe was playing “Kobeball” this whole time at the orders of D’Antontoni and switched it up on their own decision as he did say “this system is not working out…”? The list goes on and on and it could be all of these reasons, none or a little bit of all of them.

Before you make your decision on which one of those scenarios is true, let me pose one more question. Do you think that someone who has been labeled as so selfish as to be chasing the NBA scoring record and nothing else…someone who is so egocentric that he completely ignores all his teammates and coaches for his own stats…someone so egotistical that even at 34 thinks he is the best player in the NBA….could all of the sudden after 17 years of playing this way just change in the middle of a career season and towards the end of his career (imagine me saying that with Stephen A Smith’s voice)? You will undoubtably have your answer as many others will come to their own conclusions. My conclusion is that Kobe was never any of those things you and other “Kobe Haters” labeled him as and he is certainly showing it.

SPQR
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Lakernet79, You don't have to agree with me. Thats your right as it is anyones. I want to touch on what you said about him being the only reason for our success or failure, because I do find that an interesting point. No, hes not. He can facilitate till his arms fall off, but if the other players don't take advantage of it on a consistant level, then that too would doomed to failure. And its also true, Lakernet79 that all the players, Pau, Metta, Howard, Nash..etc.. and the coaches have to do their part. But Kobe, because of his ridiculous, colossal ability and greatness, casts such a greater impact on this team, for or bad, than all the other players combined. That is the massive effect he throws off because of his dominance. Just like a Jordan, or a Magic or a Bird or Kareem. He, by the sheer ability he has, the things he does, is by far the biggest mover and shaker on this team. Thus, how he decides to play it has far more impact on the team than what a Pau, or Howard or Nash has. And that is something many Lakers fans don't understand about Kobe. He is so great, what he does effects this team so much, that it is almost incalculable. When he decides to play what I call Kobeball, yes, he demonstates his other worldly ability to score. But he turns his teamates into virtual specators. Because when he plays in that mode, he will not move the ball FAST, he will hold it dribble, dribble, dribble, look for his shot, look for his shot, look for his shot. And that grinds the offense, their flow, his teamates to a stop. Now he can have GREAT individual games doing that, and he can win games doing....

lakerfrommass
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LALayup wrote:
lakerfrommass wrote:
[...] I stand by my original belief that there are some games in which Kobe takes stupid shots for no apparent reason, and there are some games he takes stupid shots because his mates can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a shovel.

That you have John! You have a very balanced approach on the topic. I would say though, that many have used that "my teammates suck" explanation. I understand it to a teensy degree. But I still don't think it holds water in a team game.

Anyway...you missed another one you might add to the list. Sometimes Kobe continues to take shots without regard to quality because HE can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a shovel either! If he withholds shots from 'mates due to a lack of efficiency, he sure doesn't allow himself the same treatment. You see...he's one extremely determined guy one way or the other. That's part of what makes him so great. I suppose somebody has to shoot! lol.

In the end though, it's just all the more reason that it's better that they trust each other across the board and always play more of the "right" way together. Normally, at least somebody is going to warm up. And if there's a hot hand, feed him and work together for him. Withholding the ball and/or shots from teammates is no way to play as a unit even if it is an explanation for what goes on at times.

I'll say

SPQR
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Baptist, Dan and any other readers on this thread, There was a very interesting article in Sports Illustrated last week about Carmelo Anthony and his miraculous turnaround as well as that of the Knicks. He listed several things he decided to do after looking deep into himself as person and player after last years disaster. Things he decided to change this year to make himself and his team better. One caught my attention because of the obvious similarity to the Kobe situation here. I will repeat it verbatim: He would "dig deep in [himself]" and become "an unselfish leader." Anthony saw the new team arrayed around him, full of veteran role players such as Kidd and Chandler, and realized the offense would be what he calls "a sacrifice system for me." In other words, he'd have to swing the ball and make the smart play instead of always shooting. Says Anthony, "Credit to Coach Woodson and Jason, but at the end of the day, it was something I had to decide I really want to do." I think the parallels to Kobe are clear. And what he needs to do since he has such an overwhelming influence on how this this team plays. Incidentally, there was another quote in that article about Melo's play under D'Antoni that caught my eye. It was from a coach who was around the Knicks last year. Here is that one, which also has a bearing on the Lakers in a way, with all the discussion about D'Antoni on LTB and his performance here and how he bombed in NY last year. Here it is: Then again, Anthony is also capable of equally unimpressive displays of defense. Or bad shot taking. Or not caring. As a coach who spent time around the Knicks last season says of Anthony's play during....

ralppcobarde
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its true SPQR, that we want Kobe to succeed in order for him to do that, if he continues to play like the last two games. i couldn't care less, if he shoots 10-15 shots a game but getting 9 rebs or atleast 8-10 assists this team is still formidable. after watching the last game. thunders defense couldn't do anything to stop this team especially when Kobe plays like this. hoping for us to get into the playoffs as a 7-8 seed, Kobe should play this way. or as you say it's a must. if Kobe plays like this and we are 7-8 seed, then we can all talk.And BTW, the team looked, young and energized again after seeing Kobe play the different version. a team with Howard,new version of Kobe, Gasol,MWP,Clark,Nash is still a team to be reckoned with.

MAGICLAKEZ
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SPQR wrote:
Baptist, Dan and any other readers on this thread,

There was a very interesting article in Sports Illustrated last week about Carmelo Anthony and his miraculous turnaround as well as that of the Knicks. He listed several things he decided to do after looking deep into himself as person and player after last years disaster. Things he decided to change this year to make himself and his team better. One caught my attention because of the obvious similarity to the Kobe situation here. I will repeat it verbatim:

He would "dig deep in [himself]" and become "an unselfish leader." Anthony saw the new team arrayed around him, full of veteran role players such as Kidd and Chandler, and realized the offense would be what he calls "a sacrifice system for me." In other words, he'd have to swing the ball and make the smart play instead of always shooting. Says Anthony, "Credit to Coach Woodson and Jason, but at the end of the day, it was something I had to decide I really want to do."

I think the parallels to Kobe are clear. And what he needs to do since he has such an overwhelming influence on how this this team plays.

Incidentally, there was another quote in that article about Melo's play under D'Antoni that caught my eye. It was from a coach who was around the Knicks last year. Here is that one, which also has a bearing on the Lakers in a way, with all the discussion about D'Antoni on LTB and his performance here and how he bombed in NY last year. Here it is:

Then again, Anthony is also capable of equally unimpressive displays of defense. Or bad shot taking. Or not caring. As a coach who spent time around the Knicks last season says of Anthony's play during the Mike D'Antoni era, *"Melo wasn't malicious. He wasn't confrontational. He just wouldn't play or put out any effort. It was sabotage through disinterest."

Anyway, just a couple of things in that story that made me think of topics being discussed on LTB about our team.

A very good story by the way. If anyone wants to read it, here is the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1206765/1/i ndex.htm

  • LOL......Mike Brown parallel.

It sometimes appeared that our very own "Superstars" during MB's tenure, played in a haphazard manner to make MB look worse than he actually was.

LALayup
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Anyway, good stuff! Thanks again. On a separate, but related note, I want to write something on Kobe's "annoying" side for me from my observations of the Lakers @Suns game earlier. Many will think this paints a story line where Kobe is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in the way of team play. I truly do not intend that at all. But, assuming I can explain it well enough, I'm confident that some of you will understand the concern. By the way, right off the top, I'm NOT trying to blame Kobe for the loss either. I think this whole "team approach" is so new to the whole team that they're going to have further growing pains as they continue to move in this direction together. I was pleased to see that Robert Horry and James Worthy had the exact same observation after the game. But anyway, here goes. While I'm as thrilled as anyone with Kobe's newfound approach to good team basketball, I was completely alarmed almost from the beginning of the game vs. the Suns tonight. Kobe has gotten a ton of accolades, and rightly so for his willingness to become "the facilitator" for the team's offense. It now appears that Kobe has embraced the role so strongly that he's [gasp!] passing up wide open shots in favor of passing the ball to teammates instead, even if they're not clearly open. Contrary to the opinion of some, I don't think that's admirable at all! In fact if it's taken to an extreme, it could be an even bigger problem in the long run. It's hard enough for a team to work for great shots, so when you have one, TAKE IT! If you don't, it kills the energy of the team. By the way, other players have....

Axle
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Very good post LaLayup. I totally agree that making Kobe just a facilitator does not work all the time. It will work if the other players are making shots, but when they are not into the game and his team mates are shooting nothing but bricks, then I think that the Black Mamba should go into a shooting mode.

But then where do you draw the line. If Kobe starts going into that mode, THEN we have LTBers that will blame Kobe for taking too many shots. OR they will go back and say I TOLD YOU SO.

This thing of taking the shooting guard away from Kobe and making him do more of a facilitator is not going to work all the time. The Lakers are lacking pure shooters that are consistent and they are lacking a young and good point guard.

By restricting Kobe to just facilitating and only taking twelve shots a game, it is taking Kobe out of his rhythm and he will start missing shots that are usually easy for him.

It is all a game of confidence (example) look at Pau on the free throw line now. He has lost his confidence on his shot. Same will happen to Kobe if he restricts himself to just facilitating.

Shaq
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wanting from the best scorer of all times to become a fascilitator is the same as requiring from Usain Bolt to run 400m instead of 100 and 200 just because he is too quick...it's just not gonna succeed for long

LALayup
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Axle wrote:
Very good post LaLayup. I totally agree that making Kobe just a facilitator does not work all the time. It will work if the other players are making shots, but when they are not into the game and his team mates are shooting nothing but bricks, then I think that the Black Mamba should go into a shooting mode.

But then where do you draw the line. If Kobe starts going into that mode, THEN we have LTBers that will blame Kobe for taking too many shots. OR they will go back and say I TOLD YOU SO.

This thing of taking the shooting guard away from Kobe and making him do more of a facilitator is not going to work all the time. The Lakers are lacking pure shooters that are consistent and they are lacking a young and good point guard.

By restricting Kobe to just facilitating and only taking twelve shots a game, it is taking Kobe out of his rhythm and he will start missing shots that are usually easy for him.

It is all a game of confidence (example) look at Pau on the free throw line now. He has lost his confidence on his shot. Same will happen to Kobe if he restricts himself to just facilitating.

Thanks Axle. I've never been one to get stuck on the quantity of Kobe's shots as the primary focus. He can score 50 a game for all I care. I just want the team to work together for great/good shots no matter who is taking them. The team balance will work itself out. I love Kobe as a scorer, and even as an all around player. He's an excellent finisher and a very good passer too when everyone is being aggressive together.

For sure, the Lakers need Kobe to be aggressive offensively, but just not force shots on his own if at all possible. I know he'll have to take some tough "bailout" shots here and there. My point is about remaining aggressive. Period. Kobe should always be both a scorer (scoring is primary) AND playmaker for teammates, depending on who's open and who's also making themselves available. No one should be stuck in either "facilitator mode" or "scorer mode." Same goes for Nash. Same goes for Pau. There are plenty of weapons on this team, even though Kobe is clearly the most lethal. You take what the defense gives you, and be both at the same time.

I know it can be a delicate balance and there is an overwhelming tendency to blame Kobe too much when things go sour as well as give him too much of the credit when things are going good. I guess that just goes with the territory of being a player of his stature.

LALayup
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Shaq wrote:
wanting from the best scorer of all times to become a fascilitator is the same as requiring from Usain Bolt to run 400m instead of 100 and 200 just because he is too quick...it's just not gonna succeed for long

Yep! I agree Shaq. They're taming the beast too much! I think the intention is good, but they don't want to be THAT predictable or take their best weapon out of the fight. Maybe they'll get the right balance figured out. If they don't figure it out soon, this season will be down the tubes in a hurry.

SPQR
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Axle, Why must you, or Kobe, go to extremes? Its always so funny when fans here do that. Have you, or Kobe, ever heard of intelligence, moderation or adaption to circumstance? Why is with you that its an either-or situation with no ablility to adapt or think? Or assume it has to be that way with Kobe? Are you a thinking creature, able to adjust to different stimuli and data and conditions? Isn't Kobe? Are you and Kobe some kind of automations programmed to do one thing to the extreme. Why do you and some others make this so complicated. Its not an either-or issue. Its simple: If the defense gives Kobe the good shots, or he can get em, go for it. There is no problem there. If the defense makes it so that someone else has the better chance, Kobe facilitates. Kobe can have games where he scored 25 and also does good passing. Its all predicated on what the other team is doing. See how easy it is? He doesn't have to shoot 30 times a game, or shoot 10. He does what the game dictates, in the smartest most effective way. That doesn't mean shutting down his offense to only pass, nor does it mean jacking up 28 shots, twelve of which are horrible. Some of you guys really make this more complicated than it is and also act like you have to one thing or another to an extreme. What kind of mindset is that? Its not one that works in real life. So why do you impose it on Kobe and basketball? Why does he only have to do one thing or the other to the extreme? That doesn't make any sense. He can think and adapt as a human being, right? Shaq, If you want the pure Kobeball Kobe back, or other fans do, or....

LALayup
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One of the top goals of the team this year was to get the ball out of Kobe's hands far more. Let's not abandon that goal! He should still be at his most effective at the middle/end of offensive action. One of the problems, as I see it, is that the ball is still sticking in Kobe's hands far too often. You cannot have him controlling everything so tightly on his own, whether that be scoring or attempting to "facilitate." Man...I'm growing to hate that word. lol

KBLO-24_7
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More lie, Nash ball The lakers before Kobe took the reigns of Kobe johnson were 5-13 with Nash in the lineup trying to facilitate. Kobe accounted for over 50% of Nash's assit total as a shooting guard finisher. The fact is the Lakers entering the Utah game were the exact amount of games under 500 on the year as they were with Nsh in the lineup, and they had played 500 ball, 12-12 without Nash and the ball in the hands of Kobe with a pg tandem of Duhon and Morris. Nash was getting burned so Kobe tried to defend them. There came a boling point, not just from Kobe but the bigs because Nash for all respect to his glorious career, can't play on the ball and with post players. Shaq said it in his book where he took a jab at him and said Kobe fed him better than Nash could. It just doesn't click for Nash to feed the post with the ball in his hands. Likewise it doesn't for Dantoni because Melo openly said the difference is Woodson gives him the ball on the block, so as 3d on nba TV says he can play bully ball ... To Dantoni posting kills flow, as do the pnr sets kobe uses now which are something totally from Phils playbook as opposed to the slip screens amare and Nash made famouns, to Pau and Kobe this style wins rings. Lets not twist, it is great that he's doing this now ... But he shouldn't have to do the job of a whole perimeter 17 seasons in and its not something that was asked of West who had Goodrich or Magic who had a great guy to feel every niche so his plate was never crowded .... That's on Jim for wanting....

KBLO-24_7
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LALayup wrote:
One of the top goals of the team this year was to get the ball out of Kobe's hands far more. Let's not abandon that goal! He should still be at his most effective at the middle/end of offensive action. One of the problems, as I see it, is that the ball is still sticking in Kobe's hands far too often. You cannot have him controlling everything so tightly on his own, whether that be scoring or attempting to "facilitate." Man...I'm growing to hate that word. lol
Nash wasnt getting it done. 5-13 running the O before Kobe took over. Team was....

Axle
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Very good posts KBLO-24 7. I totally agree where you post that other players pass the ball to Kobe with time already run down too much. It is killing Kobe's percentage because he has to force a shot that is almost impossible to make. I have said it and I will say it again that these role players have to look at the clock and if they see that the clock is running out, they have to create their own shot.

Taking the ball completely out of Kobe's hands is a big mistake. Kobe has to do both, facilitate, but he also has to score when he is open. Good example was last nights game against the Wolves. If Kobe had just stayed facilitating the Lakers would have lost. The three's had stopped falling and it was headed for a sure loss. Luckily Kobe started to get involved in the scoring even though I truly believe that his shooting has suffered because of the lack of shooting more often. I really believe your rhythm suffers.

LALayup
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It's pretty simple. Without balance and mixing it up, we're screwed either way. Nash isn't athletic enough to handle the ball alone and Kobe isn't a good enough ball handler to go it alone either. Plus Kobe has this strange tendency to take himself out of the offense almost completely when he's determined to be "the facilitator." It doesn't need to be one or the other. It should be both. Everyone needs to be a weapon. It's basketball suicide for either of them to be predictable as the sole playmaker. It turns into Turnover City! I'd rather not be known that way. Mix it up instead.

The biggest thing needed, rather than a designated "facilitator" (which is almost laughable considering what we have to work with) is just moving the ball quickly. If it sticks in anybody's hands, once again, we're screwed. As was mentioned up above, we're not talking rocket science here. This is team basketball 101. There's no need to make it complicated. It's not. All we need is the willingness to get everyone on the team involved and be more flexible in the roles. Pau is so totally underused as a secondary playmaker that it's ridiculous. He's the best passing big man in basketball. Just move the damn ball through him and trust other teammates too. Also, Kobe should NEVER be hesitant to be a finisher when he's wide open. It's just plain silly and counterproductive, even though the intent might be good. The goal is to get a really good shot and take it! That's the only way you develop any kind of rhythm and consistently good shots for the team overall.

lakerfrommass
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wrong thread... Deleted..

LakersFranchise
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Lmfao

KobeForGOAT
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Please keep uping this thread ... $hit s funny

SPQR
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Kobeforgoat,

Guess you're another guy who confuses our record and how our season will end with the Miami Heat. Or even the Grizzlies or Spurs.

You have an interesting sense of what is funny. Do you find it amusing how the team has played? Are you laughing about how the superteam has bombed? Are you looking forward with side splitting delight to not making the playoffs or if we do, the inevitible loss that will end the season?

You might want to check the standings to find out what is the sad, predictable thing that is happening this year and how it will end.

Some questions for you: You understand our position, right? Where we are, how we have been playing? Your not under any illusions, are you?

And Ill ask you one last question Kobeforgoat: Tell me, what is your prediction for how our season will end?

Can you answer that? In front of everyone here? So we can all look back on it when the season is over?

Im very interested to see what you have to say. Please do reply.

KobeForGOAT
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I hope they go as far as possible, and next year we will be great with Gasol and MWP out of books traded/amnestied and Hill back. And better yet in the other year when the sad predictable inevitable KB (42 pts 12 assists) resigns for small bucks. Lakers record last 20 games 14W 6L NOT BAD! Now a pessimist reponse below...

KobeForGOAT
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"The confidence is gone. The jutting jaw pulled back. Forever. Because he will never see another title, will never be the position to play for one or even dream about it.

The swagger replaced by resignation and confusion. The brash voice now a small, quiet whisper."

This poetry is so cute

Cart33
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Bet Kobe read this and used it as motivation. SPQR could have single handedly created this monster Mamba Razz

LakerFanGolfer
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You wish Kobe's career ended....... I'm sick of Kobe hate, he is our franchise player for a decade now. Live with it.

vabeachkobe24
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This has got to be kobe's best season as a Laker. This thread should come up from time to time just to remind us it's a 82 game season. We disect and magnify each game as it were there last. Overall, kobe has and the rest of the team have survived all the criticism and now have found themselves in a position to possibly make the playoffs.

Only thng predictable about kobe is he always try to win. hard to hate that.

DFishSuperFan
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KobeForGOAT wrote:
I predict that Lakers win the title with Kobe blocking twice your idol Lechoke James in game 7

No doubt Kobe was the one who willed the Lakers to close, incredible, exciting wins the last couple games, he played with lots of heart. But lets also remember it was against the Hornets and then the Raptors. They are fun games to watch and it's exciting to see if they will squeak into the playoffs but to insist this team is a title contender, this team that got 25 points down against the Hornets, this team that needs overtime to finish the Raptors at home. I see a grim playoffs for the Lakers presuming they do make it in. I predict things like this not as a Kobe hater or a Laker hater but just as a person trying to be as honest with himself as possible. If you are completely honest with yourself do you see this Lakers team, that loses against every team with a solid playoff spot, contending for a title? It's okay to hope for it, but lots of us just don't see it.

SuperNutz
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I have a feeling that SPQR is actually Smush Parker.... Who else hate Kobe that much..

KBLO-24_7
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I'm honest when I say we will have another franchise guy, may be Dwight when he gets healthy and if he learns some of Kobe's attitude and confidence

But we will never have another Kobe Brynat. Never have a kid that goes from the bench to all star sixth man in his sophomore year. To the main facilitator, defender, and secondary scorer of a title team in his early 20s. Hen continue to work and grow to be a 1A scorer with first option numbers next to Shaq while facilitating and defending. Then go on to keep wanting it and being hungry enough to carry scrubs over 500. Then keep it up and stay in the 25/5/5 club still 17 seasons in and with over 50k mins. Never get a guy willing to play with every injury, sick, work hard, show up early, stay late, who expects to win, is willing to take the blame in the media from LA, and then also be a lifer. It ain't happening, so we need to appreciate these last years

Quote:
Kevin DIng @KevinDing

I've heard many Lakers say it before, but never Dwight Howard until now:

"In the fourth quarter, it's Kobe time."

Oh, Dwight is buying in on the Kobe System because he's witnessing how great Kobe can be, how much of a killer he is and how much confidence he can bring. Here's no more whining when Kobe scores big because the aura is back around

AND AS FOR THIS THREAD LMFAO!

gemfow
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KBLO-24_7 wrote:
I'm honest when I say we will have another franchise guy, may be Dwight when he gets healthy and if he learns some of Kobe's attitude and confidence

But we will never have another Kobe Brynat. Never have a kid that goes from the bench to all star sixth man in his sophomore year. To the main facilitator, defender, and secondary scorer of a title team in his early 20s. Hen continue to work and grow to be a 1A scorer with first option numbers next to Shaq while facilitating and defending. Then go on to keep wanting it and being hungry enough to carry scrubs over 500. Then keep it up and stay in the 25/5/5 club still 17 seasons in and with over 50k mins. Never get a guy willing to play with every injury, sick, work hard, show up early, stay late, who expects to win, is willing to take the blame in the media from LA, and then also be a lifer. It ain't happening, so we need to appreciate these last years

Quote:
Kevin DIng @KevinDing

I've heard many Lakers say it before, but never Dwight Howard until now:

"In the fourth quarter, it's Kobe time."

Oh, Dwight is buying in on the Kobe System because he's witnessing how great Kobe can be, how much of a killer he is and how much confidence he can bring. Here's no more whining when Kobe scores big because the aura is back around

AND AS FOR THIS THREAD LMFAO!

You must have been waiting a while to feel the need to bring this up on an older thread, lol.

No one has doubted how great Kobe Bryant has been or still is. He just isn't an easy player to play with and that's what many of us have said and its one reason he won't win another ring and its unfortunate.

I would love to see Kobe leave the game with about seven rings but its not going to happen because Kobe wants things done through him completely but this is a different era that stresses getting all players involved and so forth.

There won't be another Kobe, we know that, I know that and it will be a dark day for me personally when he's gone but it will be a great day for me as well because it will usher in a new era of ball and the good/bad that comes with it and not just having to see people use Kobe as a crutch which is his fault as much as theirs.

Afrosho
votes: 0
Serious Laker Fan
Posts: 250

SuperNutz wrote:
I have a feeling that SPQR is actually Smush Parker.... Who else hate Kobe that much..

lol

Axle
votes: 71
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 15010
Location: Axle

Even if the Lakers do not ever win another championship, it has been quit an experience to have had the opportunity to watch a player as good as Kobe Bean Bryant. And I have seen many great Lakers going back to the Magic and Jabbar days. I am not a young man, I have had the opportunity to see these athletes perform, and Kobe is right up there with the best.'

And am not one of these fans that is always predicting the worst for this franchise. If they looked at the whole picture as to what this Laker team has gone through this season with injuries, coach changes, death of JB. It is expected for a team to be out of sync. But this team was put together by lot smarter people then the critics in this forum and maybe, just maybe they can turn this thing around. Sometimes a little faith will go a long ways. Instead of showing so much negativity a true Laker fan will show some hope.

And the critics might be right and we might be wrong, but we should show a little bit of loyalty to the Lakers.

Once Kobe is gone it will be a long time before we see another championship with all rookies rebuilding the team. With all the new rules and regulations that have been passed to shackle teams to create parity, the Lakers will not be an elite team anymore. They will be just another nba team. And it seems when you read all these negative threads and some negative fans posting as to how things are coming to an end for Kobe that they are glad this man is retiring and that they would rather just have another just average team. We true Laker fans would rather not hear or read about it.

I agree with the poster that posted that Kobe must have read this, because he has made some people look bad with their comments. Kobe is playing better then he has in a long time. The man is simply great. clapping-hands

JSM87
votes: 0
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 506

Kobe's been dunking alot. I want to see him do his signature baseline reverse come up on the other side of the rim dunk I haven't seen in a couple years. He tried it once this year but he got fouled on the play and was a miss. Do it Kobe!

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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Axle the apparent one true laker fan on this site: Kobe's greatness has never been in question. One of the best players I've ever seen and if not for some of the questionable to downright stupid moves by the FO he would have more than five championships. It will be a dark day when he retires and there will be a void that really can't be filled, that's what happens with legends but you must move on as a franchise. Interesting that you mention the trials and tribulations that have gone on with this team but other teams have gone through it as well. Bottom line it's been the chemistry that has taken the team down, now they're trying to make up ground. The team doesn't play as a team on both ends, it's quite evident just watching it. There are too many weaknesses on a team put together by smarter guys than you, like you've mentioned. None of the weaknesses that have been on this team for years have been addressed. It's been hard to recover and address since the brain trust has made similar dumb moves to escape from under. The new rules and regulations only separates the men from the boys when it comes to wheeling and dealing to put the best team out there. FO's like SA, OKC and others have done quite well with moves to create a balanced roster and not just go for big names who are past their prime and expect them to play nice together. Will LA's brain trust be able to get down with the get down and make necessary moves to field a good team without a bloated payroll? Yeah I'm not too sure. Please post an instructional link or something on....

MAGICLAKEZ
votes: 70
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 16773
Location: Los Angeles, California
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Is this not the same die hard "loyal" laker fan axle who said that he will quit supporting the lakers if Kobe got traded or amnestied? LOL Therefore he gives precedence to individuals over the team or perhaps he is just on the laker bandwagon because of Kobe.

Anyways my point is that I'm seeing lot of folks getting very sensitive and touchy when players get critiqued and Kobe is by no means out of this purview. Long time laker fans like Gemfow/SPQR and others including myself have invested decades of our lives on this team and have every right, just like everyone else, to speak our mind and express our opinions when it concerns this team. No one can take that away from us, especially not those who have recently been on the bandwagon for the sake of few individuals.

At the end of the day this team belongs to the masses/fans and no one has the proprietary right over this team. Every fan has the right to critique or Praise the players as it is their prerogative to do just that. It is petty and naive to to come out and look down on someone or label him a hater just cause he doesn't see things from your perspective.

Axle
votes: 71
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 15010
Location: Axle

Gemfow: I like the way you separate fan of the game and fan of the Lakers. To make it clear that is the difference between me and you. I am a fan of the Lakers and that is the only team that I truly enjoy watching. I hate to watch teams like the Heat or Celtics. I consider them the enemy.

And NO, I would say 98% of the LTB members are Laker fans, not fans of the game. Most of these members do not enjoy watching other teams like they enjoy watching our Lakers.

You see that is the big difference between you and me. That is why you do not show much respect for the greatest Laker player in a decade. It is a pattern that you and a couple of other members have done for several years. Now you are praising him, but most of the time you and a couple more in this forum really come down hard on Kobe and blaming him for everything when in fact you know with the exception of a couple of more players the Laker role players are really not that good.

That is why members are laughing at you guys that come out and criticize Kobe for everything. Constantly bashing him and elevating Lebron to an all time high? For a Laker fan to do that is kind of strange to me and other. JMHO!

Axle
votes: 71
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 15010
Location: Axle

MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
Is this not the same die hard "loyal" laker fan axle who said that he will quit supporting the lakers if Kobe got traded or amnestied? Therefore he gives precedence to individuals over the team or perhaps he is just on the laker bandwagon because of Kobe.

Anyways my point is that I'm seeing lot of folks getting very sensitive and touchy when players get critiqued and Kobe is by no means out of this purview. Long time laker fans like Gemfow/SPQR and others including myself have invested decades of our lives on this team and have every right to speak our mind and express our opinions when it concerns this team. No one can take that away from us, especially not those who have recently been on the bandwagon for the sake of few individuals.

At the end of the day this team belongs to the masses/fans and no one has the proprietary right over this team. Every fan has the right to critique or Praise the players as it is their prerogative to do just that. It is petty and naive to to come out and look down on someone or label him a hater just cause he doesn't see things from your perspective.

Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Toilet monster

MAGICLAKEZ
votes: 70
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 16773
Location: Los Angeles, California
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Axle wrote:
MAGICLAKEZ wrote:
Is this not the same die hard "loyal" laker fan axle who said that he will quit supporting the lakers if Kobe got traded or amnestied? Therefore he gives precedence to individuals over the team or perhaps he is just on the laker bandwagon because of Kobe.

Anyways my point is that I'm seeing lot of folks getting very sensitive and touchy when players get critiqued and Kobe is by no means out of this purview. Long time laker fans like Gemfow/SPQR and others including myself have invested decades of our lives on this team and have every right to speak our mind and express our opinions when it concerns this team. No one can take that away from us, especially not those who have recently been on the bandwagon for the sake of few individuals.

At the end of the day this team belongs to the masses/fans and no one has the proprietary right over this team. Every fan has the right to critique or Praise the players as it is their prerogative to do just that. It is petty and naive to to come out and look down on someone or label him a hater just cause he doesn't see things from your perspective.

Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Toilet monster

I rest my case lol...axle has no defense just like his idol..hahaha

axe axe Nasty behave

ROFL_at_Kobe_Haters
votes: 0
NewsSurge Newbie
Posts: 1

oh my god.

ROFL @ this epic failure of a thread.

Wow.

I hope SPQR is just fine. I'm actually scared for him.

DaAssasins
votes: 18
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 974

I haven't logged into this site for a while, but I see nothing has changed. Same Kobe haters like SPQR writing non-sense. As Kobe has showed the last couple games, Kobe is the greatest player to put on a Laker uniform, and yes I have watched the Lakers since 1980. He is also, even at age 34, the best player in the game. Back to back 40pt 12 assists game, not since Jerry West did that. It's amazing how fans jump on Lechoke, when he puts up big #'s, but if Kobe really wanted to, and didnt have a 7 footer, he had to keep happy every game, he coule easily put up great #'s and win the scoring title every year.

But SPQR, nice thread -53 rating!!! Keep up the great work!! LMAO!

LKnight
votes: 70
Laker GM
Posts: 4173


Repped High Quality Post

I'm sorry but some of you guys are absolute jokes!

You see Kobe put on performances of 40 points WHILE INVOLVING HIS TEAMMATES (12 Assts) which is what all of us so called "haters" have been calling for for ages and somehow you think you guys have proven some kind of point!?!?

That's what you would call here on earth as being STUPID.

I've called Kobe a ball hog his entire career. And talked about how he takes his teammates out of rhythm which is detrimental to the team. WHICH MIND YOU IS A FACT when you hear it said by his own teammates.

And then you have the stretch of games in which he decides to get his Lebron on and drop 10 plus assists a game which completely turned the season around. Which COMMON SENSE would tell you plainly, WE WERE RIGHT!!!

But then you have the idiot fans then saying to you TAKE THAT KOBE HATERS!!

Now anyone with sense would call that an OXY MORON...

So now once again, Kobe with his incredible talent has done exactly what we've been begging for which is balance his dominance and allow his teammates to do their thing and you guys for some reason feel like YOU'RE POINTS are proven right??

And yet myself and guys like SP are the ones who don't know basketball....

Confusion... roll roll

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8619

Five rings. Case closed.

LKnight
votes: 70
Laker GM
Posts: 4173

Case closed on what??

MAGICLAKEZ
votes: 70
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 16773
Location: Los Angeles, California
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^^ he means Kobe has won five rings so he has the license to commit any crime under the sun and no one will and should mind. No one has a case, even if it is legit when it concerns Kobe, cause he has won five chips. Hence case closed.

BaadMaster
votes: 98
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 8619


Repped High Quality Post

SPQR wrote:
Kobeforgoat,

Guess you're another guy who confuses our record and how our season will end with the Miami Heat. Or even the Grizzlies or Spurs.

You have an interesting sense of what is funny. Do you find it amusing how the team has played? Are you laughing about how the superteam has bombed? Are you looking forward with side splitting delight to not making the playoffs or if we do, the inevitible loss that will end the season?

You might want to check the standings to find out what is the sad, predictable thing that is happening this year and how it will end.

Some questions for you: You understand our position, right? Where we are, how we have been playing? Your not under any illusions, are you?

And Ill ask you one last question Kobeforgoat: Tell me, what is your prediction for how our season will end?

Can you answer that? In front of everyone here? So we can all look back on it when the season is over?

Im very interested to see what you have to say. Please do reply.

It takes a big man to admit he is wrong.It appears you do not have that qulaity. Standings alone do not determine a players greatness. If that were true, than Kobe, during the Smush years, must have stunk as a player. In fact, Charles Barkley really must have stunk the NBA up. Clyde Drexler? A bum. But that all NBA superstar, Tayshawn Prince, what a player. Maybe they should vote him inot the HOF twice for beating the Lakers.

And Patrick Ewing. Another bum, SPQR. The list of "bums without rings or on teams with lsoing records" is long and includes quite a few great ballers,

And Kobe. Another SPQR Bum with no rings. Oops, I almost forgot. He has one. OH NO1111 He has FIVEWell, the fact that he doesn't have six qualifies him for the SPQR NBA Bum club.

I guess I must be watching soccer and got it all wrong.

KobeForGOAT
votes: 3
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 529

DFishSuperFan wrote:
KobeForGOAT wrote:
I predict that Lakers win the title with Kobe blocking twice your idol Lechoke James in game 7

No doubt Kobe was the one who willed the Lakers to close, incredible, exciting wins the last couple games, he played with lots of heart. But lets also remember it was against the Hornets and then the Raptors. They are fun games to watch and it's exciting to see if they will squeak into the playoffs but to insist this team is a title contender, this team that got 25 points down against the Hornets, this team that needs overtime to finish the Raptors at home. I see a grim playoffs for the Lakers presuming they do make it in. I predict things like this not as a Kobe hater or a Laker hater but just as a person trying to be as honest with himself as possible. If you are completely honest with yourself do you see this Lakers team, that loses against every team with a solid playoff spot, contending for a title? It's okay to hope for it, but lots of us just don't see it.

I know man im just joking. Everybody knows that this team have huge problems:

  1. the forwards: Metta cant jump more than 2 inches from the ground (no dunks, no rebounds) slow and terrible ballhandling, bricks in the crunch trying to be the hero. Clark is playing like a bench player (what he really is)

  2. 3 crap reserve PGs

  3. Meeks, Jamison inconsistency

  4. Dantoni is retard: always play nash + blake instead of nash + meeks or blake + meeks . He dont use the youth of Ebanks

  5. Gasol and Hill injuries (Gasoft injury has been a bless, his lack of energy is like a contagious disease)

I can keep with this list to 100 but you know what, i m enjoying to witness Kobe playing Godlike mode and i m not a spoiled fan that thinks the team has to win the ship every year. Nash and D12 are adjusting well and next year if the FO make the right moves (get rid of Gasol, MWP and the useless bench players) we ll have a championship roster.

*sry about my lame grammar i dont speak english

lakernet79
votes: 35
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 591
@MagicLakez Comparing Axle’s defense to Kobe’s is actually a compliement. 10 time All-NBA First team, 2 time All-NBA Second team, 2 time All-NBA Thrid team. Even though he has lost a step on defense I’d be hard pressed to take another SG’s defense over Kobe. While he mostly plays “roaming” defense much like an NFL safety at time, he can certainly play on the ball defense when the occasion calls for it. All in all, a poor attempt at a joke. @Gemfow and Axle What Axle says has a lot of validity to it. In fact you can attribute it to a majority of the arguments on this board. There is a huge difference between being a Laker fan and a basketball fan who likes the Lakers. Laker fans are Laker apologist. Basketball fans usually try to force an objective eye to a band of fanatical posters which can only end poorly. If you didn’t already know, I am a Laker fan. @LKnight Sorry to say but you are doing the same exact thing you are accusing others of doing. Just because Kobe got 12 assists does not mean you are right either. Let’s even broaden our view of this month by month: November (Laker’s record 8-6): Kobe averaged 27ppg, 5.6ast, 5.4reb on 47 FG% December (7-7): Kobe averaged 33.8ppg, 4.6ast, 5.6reb on 46FG% January (5-11): Kobe averaged 24.4ppg, 6.2ast, 4.6reb on 44%FG% February (9-4): Kobe averaged 23.9ppg, 6.6ast, 6.7reb on 48FG% March (3-1): Kobe averaging 36.8ppg, 7.5ast, 5.5reb on 51FG% Now what can you determine from those numbers? During Nov/Dec the team’s record was 15-13 while Kobe was playing “Kobe ball” and scoring before passing. During Jan/Feb the team’s record was 14-15 while Kobe was “passing”. Having showed you that, can....

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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Axle: There isn't any reason to separate the two like you accused me of doing, your words were true Laker fans so I used your words.

There is a huge difference between you and I, I agree with you fully on that one. Since I'm a huge fan of the game of basketball, I know how it should be played or I guess I should say I have an appreciation for it being played correctly. A lot of legendary players have said the game is easy once the mind catches up to the body if the body doesn't fade first. You on the other hand may be a great Laker fan which is admirable but I think you being only a Laker fan, you can only see fault in certain things. As a basketball fan I can look at things from a basketball perspective and see how Kobe and other Lakers are royally screwing up. I can see how they are terribly running the offense and just doing their own thing. What it boils down to is the Lakers are a basketball team and they are representing my hometown and that's what drew me to them as a very young fan, that and my mom was a hardcore fan. Me playing ball has also aided me in being a fan of the game, I love the game. Me being a lover of basketball doesn't make me any less of a Laker fan. I can watch other teams and dissect certain player's games and just enjoy doing that, but I bleed purple and gold. You unfortunately have relegated yourself to a team and apparently doesn't like the game of basketball, just the Lakers, especially Kobe. That sounds weird to me.

gemfow
votes: 181
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Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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lakernet79 wrote:
@MagicLakez

Comparing Axle’s defense to Kobe’s is actually a compliement. 10 time All-NBA First team, 2 time All-NBA Second team, 2 time All-NBA Thrid team. Even though he has lost a step on defense I’d be hard pressed to take another SG’s defense over Kobe. While he mostly plays “roaming” defense much like an NFL safety at time, he can certainly play on the ball defense when the occasion calls for it. All in all, a poor attempt at a joke.

@Gemfow and Axle

What Axle says has a lot of validity to it. In fact you can attribute it to a majority of the arguments on this board. There is a huge difference between being a Laker fan and a basketball fan who likes the Lakers. Laker fans are Laker apologist. Basketball fans usually try to force an objective eye to a band of fanatical posters which can only end poorly. If you didn’t already know, I am a Laker fan.

@LKnight

Sorry to say but you are doing the same exact thing you are accusing others of doing. Just because Kobe got 12 assists does not mean you are right either. Let’s even broaden our view of this month by month:

November (Laker’s record 8-6): Kobe averaged 27ppg, 5.6ast, 5.4reb on 47 FG%

December (7-7): Kobe averaged 33.8ppg, 4.6ast, 5.6reb on 46FG%

January (5-11): Kobe averaged 24.4ppg, 6.2ast, 4.6reb on 44%FG%

February (9-4): Kobe averaged 23.9ppg, 6.6ast, 6.7reb on 48FG%

March (3-1): Kobe averaging 36.8ppg, 7.5ast, 5.5reb on 51FG%

Now what can you determine from those numbers? During Nov/Dec the team’s record was 15-13 while Kobe was playing “Kobe ball” and scoring before passing. During Jan/Feb the team’s record was 14-15 while Kobe was “passing”. Having showed you that, can you honestly say “we were right, when Kobe passes the ball we win and when he shoots we lose”? So is anyone really an “idiot” for saying Kobe playing the Kobe brand of ball is making us win?

I don’t think anyone has been proven right or wrong. I have been saying this since this post was started. Kobe is not the singular reason why this team was doing poorly. It was a combination of coaching changes, no training camp with the current system, the coach not having a defined rotation, Pau being hurt, Nash being hurt, Howard being hurt, Pau being hurt again, Hill being hurt and then out the entire year, Blake starting the season on the injured list and let’s not forget we have 3 players in the starting lineup that are new to the team and have never played with each other. If anyone doubt’s chemistry is not a factor, please refer to the Miami Heat their first year. If anything you can make a strong argument that Kobe has been the glue of this team this year. When the team was losing, Kobe said he’ll take the blame because he’s used to it. When the team needed someone to facilitate the offense when Nash was out, Kobe was there. When we needed someone to change their game to help the team, Kobe started dishing out dimes. When we needed clutch victories these past two games, Kobe left it all on the floor and willed us to victory. How many other players in the NBA can you really say that about? That’s pretty much a 2 man conversation in my opinion.

So let’s not lose objectivity here. This thread was started for the reason of blaming Kobe for everything that has gone wrong this season. Sorry to break it to you all, but Kobe is not the sole reason for us losing just as he is not the sole reason for us winning (except vs the Pelican and Raptors haha).

Lakernet79: I have to disagree. I've been a fan of the Lakers well before I was a fan of the game. As a child I didn't care about any other players, I hated Michael Jordan because of it. However as I grew up, I started playing the game, and I grew to love it. So, I grew up watching the game played in the eighties, nineties, 00's and how it has changed, how my own team has changed and best believe my love for the Lakers hasn't been diluted it's just that I know how the game should be played or I have an opinion of the best way to play it which is shared by many other former players and coaches.

lakernet79
votes: 35
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 591

gemfow wrote:
lakernet79 wrote:
@MagicLakez

Comparing Axle’s defense to Kobe’s is actually a compliement. 10 time All-NBA First team, 2 time All-NBA Second team, 2 time All-NBA Thrid team. Even though he has lost a step on defense I’d be hard pressed to take another SG’s defense over Kobe. While he mostly plays “roaming” defense much like an NFL safety at time, he can certainly play on the ball defense when the occasion calls for it. All in all, a poor attempt at a joke.

@Gemfow and Axle

What Axle says has a lot of validity to it. In fact you can attribute it to a majority of the arguments on this board. There is a huge difference between being a Laker fan and a basketball fan who likes the Lakers. Laker fans are Laker apologist. Basketball fans usually try to force an objective eye to a band of fanatical posters which can only end poorly. If you didn’t already know, I am a Laker fan.

@LKnight

Sorry to say but you are doing the same exact thing you are accusing others of doing. Just because Kobe got 12 assists does not mean you are right either. Let’s even broaden our view of this month by month:

November (Laker’s record 8-6): Kobe averaged 27ppg, 5.6ast, 5.4reb on 47 FG%

December (7-7): Kobe averaged 33.8ppg, 4.6ast, 5.6reb on 46FG%

January (5-11): Kobe averaged 24.4ppg, 6.2ast, 4.6reb on 44%FG%

February (9-4): Kobe averaged 23.9ppg, 6.6ast, 6.7reb on 48FG%

March (3-1): Kobe averaging 36.8ppg, 7.5ast, 5.5reb on 51FG%

Now what can you determine from those numbers? During Nov/Dec the team’s record was 15-13 while Kobe was playing “Kobe ball” and scoring before passing. During Jan/Feb the team’s record was 14-15 while Kobe was “passing”. Having showed you that, can you honestly say “we were right, when Kobe passes the ball we win and when he shoots we lose”? So is anyone really an “idiot” for saying Kobe playing the Kobe brand of ball is making us win?

I don’t think anyone has been proven right or wrong. I have been saying this since this post was started. Kobe is not the singular reason why this team was doing poorly. It was a combination of coaching changes, no training camp with the current system, the coach not having a defined rotation, Pau being hurt, Nash being hurt, Howard being hurt, Pau being hurt again, Hill being hurt and then out the entire year, Blake starting the season on the injured list and let’s not forget we have 3 players in the starting lineup that are new to the team and have never played with each other. If anyone doubt’s chemistry is not a factor, please refer to the Miami Heat their first year. If anything you can make a strong argument that Kobe has been the glue of this team this year. When the team was losing, Kobe said he’ll take the blame because he’s used to it. When the team needed someone to facilitate the offense when Nash was out, Kobe was there. When we needed someone to change their game to help the team, Kobe started dishing out dimes. When we needed clutch victories these past two games, Kobe left it all on the floor and willed us to victory. How many other players in the NBA can you really say that about? That’s pretty much a 2 man conversation in my opinion.

So let’s not lose objectivity here. This thread was started for the reason of blaming Kobe for everything that has gone wrong this season. Sorry to break it to you all, but Kobe is not the sole reason for us losing just as he is not the sole reason for us winning (except vs the Pelican and Raptors haha).

Lakernet79: I have to disagree. I've been a fan of the Lakers well before I was a fan of the game. As a child I didn't care about any other players, I hated Michael Jordan because of it. However as I grew up, I started playing the game, and I grew to love it. So, I grew up watching the game played in the eighties, nineties, 00's and how it has changed, how my own team has changed and best believe my love for the Lakers hasn't been diluted it's just that I know how the game should be played or I have an opinion of the best way to play it which is shared by many other former players and coaches.

Fair enough.

I never question anyone's love for the Lakers when it comes to posting on this board. I only question the degree to which one poster will defend a player or the organization as a whole. In general, I have found that those who have a deeper admiration for the game itself tend to be more critical of the Lakers and it's players. Those who just like the Lakers tend to be more supportive. To a degree, you fall into the former category because you watched more Laker ball than I have. You started in the 80's and I started really watching ball in the late 90's. You have seen more types of Laker teams than I have.


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