The sad predictable, inevitable end of Kobe Bean Bryant. (P. 3)

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Axle
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SPQR, I have enjoyed most of your articles, but this one is the worst you have ever wrote about Kobe Bryant. The way you write this article it points to Kobe as being the fault of all what ills the Lakers. There is where you and I disagree because I know that for years you and a couple of other Kobe haters have always tried to put Kobe down. Lets go back to the Shaq era and I know that some were blaming Kobe for Shaq being shipped out, which is not true. Shaq shipped himself out by having major disrespect for Jerry Buss and telling him what he wanted and demanded. Shaq himself said Kobe did not have anything to do with him being traded away. But for a long time Kobe was blamed for something he did not do. Now to your idol (Bynum) he was traded away because he was also demanding a five year contract which the Buss family could not give him because of his injuries. Which turned out to be a blessing. Bynum has not played a single game this season as of today. Bynum was acting like a child also and wanted to be the alpha dog in the team that has been Kobes for years. You just do not take over as the leader when you have not earn anything. He was nothing but a one legged center that wanted to detrone the player that had earned the title as captain of the team (Kobe). And now we have Dwight Howard who has been a great disappointment to most Laker fans. We expected Howard to act more matured then what he has shown at times. He was told that the team would be his once Kobe retired....

userpete1037
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[email protected] I've read on this thread. Childish on all levels. Wow!!!!!!!

gemfow
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Axle: you have this special superpower to deflect anything away from Kobe. It's interesting how you do that. When Shaq and Kobe had their feud I sided with Kobe. I feel that both players were at fault but I also pointed out that Shaq had a pattern. Penny and Shaq, Kobe and Shaq, wade and Shaq and then Nash and Shaq, it was always Shaq and a perimeter player at some sort of odds. The reason I sided with Kobe is because Shaq was lazy during the offseason, Shaq didn't put in the work that Kobe did to defend titles when the season wasn't ongoing and I still side with Kobe on that. The one thing that Shaq did complain about we're touches, he would say you have to feed the big dog and stuff like that. No one can't even try to argue that Shaq didn't fight for position, didn't ask for the ball and whatever else they say about current Laker post players. Shaq talked about playing together as well, those words should sound familiar because its been uttered by quite a few Lakers teammates. Here is another pattern. Kobe and Shaq, Kobe and Bynum, Kobe and Howard. Each center has talked about post touches, each center has talked about playing together and let's not forget about Pau as well who has talked about touches, and talks about playing together as a team. You find ways to shoot down these other teammates quite often, Bynum was lazy and didn't give effort but didn't you want Howard in LA so there wouldn't be a problem with effort? Now Howard doesn't have that same effort he had in Orlando. You have any idea why that might be? He's not....

Maxx
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The Buss family has one primary goal. It is to provide the best entertainment possible so as to charge confiscatory rates for tickets and broadcast rights. To do this they hire employees. Each employee adds more value to the organization then he/she costs. As long as that ratio stays true, the employee continues to work for the team. The moment it stops being true the employee is removed from the payroll. It’s really that simple. If Kobe or anybody else was not benefitting the Buss family and improving their revenue stream then out he or she goes. So we sit here....

Axle
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Maxx, you make a very good point. Kobe is the star player that draws in all those fans at Staple Center. I am sure it is not Duhan or Sacre. LOL!

But all kidding aside, I am not a young man. I have been watching the Lakers since the Magic, Jabbar, Worthy, Scott and Rambis. And there is no comparison of the team the Lakers have now to the team Magic had.

But what I noticed in those teams that Magic had was that they were all very good players and top draft picks that gelled at the right time. And when you are that talented everybody gives 100%, but a team like what the Lakers have now they are mediocre at best. Some are trying, but are really not that good of a player and are afraid to even take shots because they know they will not make most of the attempts. So they expect Kobe to bail them out because Kobe is a shooting guard that can score one way or the other. Guards like Kobe only come around every decade.

What I like about Kobe is that he gives 100% on every game for the last 17 years, and here we have some Kobe haters that will take a jab at him every time they see a opening.

Like I said, I am an old man comparing to some of the young people in this forum and I have seen them all. Believe me, Kobe is one of the best Laker players that I have seen since they come to Los Angeles. We are fortunate to have been entertained by such a talented player and he will be missed after he retires.

gemfow
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Maxx wrote:
The Buss family has one primary goal. It is to provide the best entertainment possible so as to charge confiscatory rates for tickets and broadcast rights. To do this they hire employees. Each employee adds more value to the organization then he/she costs. As long as that ratio stays true, the employee continues to work for the team. The moment it stops being true the employee is removed from the payroll. It’s really that simple. If Kobe or anybody else was not benefitting the Buss family and improving their revenue stream then out he or she goes. So we sit here....

SPQR
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Axle, I am glad you enjoy most of my posts. You've told me that many times. And I really appreciate the many times you have said it. Ive also liked many of yours and I could flat out kiss you on the poli thread, lol. I also appreciate your honesty with me about this last post. Ill be honest with you in return. That long post you wrote, it was waste of time. All those other issues you put up, fine. We can debate them forever. Shaq, Drew, Pau, Howard whatever. There are plenty of sides to all those stories. But see, all that you wrote about that other stuff, it is not really addressing the two points I have been trying to talk about: That is was a very predictable thing with Kobe, trying to play Kobeball at 34 because of his ego. And if keeps doing it, which he will, at 34, 35, 36 or however old he plays, his last years will be sad. Sad for him and the team. Because that kind of ball from a guy that old aint gonna cut it if you really want to win. If you want to catch Kareem, yeah. If you want to be a good teamate and win, no. And that even though we suck, stink, reek, smell, whatever other term you want to use, Kobe will not stop playing Kobeball in order to at least try to do what HE CAN to turn this around. I will say this. Why is when Kobe wins a title, hes the great leader, when he wins a title, you give him the lions share of credit? Because you do. Now that HIS team is struggling, no? Now that he is 34 years old, and still trying to play like hes 28. When FOUR former....

KS_v2
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LALayup wrote:

Hey KS! I know I'm not SPQR, but I hope you don't mind me commenting on this.

I sincerely wish that what you're saying here was strictly true. At times it is, at least for a little while. The problem I see with that overall formula you see in effect, is that very often it doesn't work like that. There are countless times when the teamwork is going very GOOD...the team is active...and then for heaven only knows why Kobe will stray away from it seemingly just to "get his own" or to get himself going, even if it means taking some crappy shots. I guess that's because no one has confidence in a team game working down the stretch of games, but that's no real excuse. In fact it's downright silly. It's been shown over and over that iso is NOT as effective as good team involvement regardless what stage of the game it is.

Anyways...just a quick thought. Thanks!

The problem with it is a controlled Kobe still manages to put up 17fga and a few dimes here and there to go along with his scoring. As you said, his field of impact is the highest of any Laker on the team right now atleast until Dwight gets his bearings and starts anchoring the D.

I won't brush aside those games. I should've added the "to the large extent" phrase to it lol. I've stated earlier that Kobe does have games where he goes against any rational thinking and starts gunning to get his first and foremost.

But to a large extent, on the teams that did go to the Finals, Kobe has shown restraint and relatively better shot-selection esp. when the lineup that is performing is out there on the court with him.

I also don't like the fact that Kobe takes too many isos at the end of games lol.

I wrote that with regards to how Kobe's mentality works. He just like any other great scorer would rather trust his own skill rather than those of his teammates when the game's close or outta the team's reach.

I sincerely at times wish Mike D/ Nash could chew out Kobe if he called for more than 2 straight iso possessions and simply say NO to his face.

That'd make the team less predictable as well.

However, Kobe has still managed to shoot in the clutch at an elite FG% despite every player and their mother knowing who's gonna take most of the shots. While I don't necessarily like the fact that the team's O isn't balanced in Q4s, its hard to argue with the results our Q4 play has earned on O atleast.

We've been the best team on O in Q4 as shocking as that sounds. On the flip side, the Spurs have the most efficient O through all 4 quarters and they play teamball.

BaadMaster
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SPQR wrote:
Look Baad, there is not much point in addressing your little list. I could. In a way you would not enjoy. But I won't.

So as far as your concerned Kobe is fine. You think he should keep on doing as he has been. Even given the results we have seen this year. Thats fine too. I wouldn't expect you say anything else, considering what I have said. We both know that.

And Baad, you say Im as stubborn and unbending as D'Antoni. Maybe so. But you see theres a difference.So I would more say I am like Red Auerbach in my stubborn and unbending way. Because like him, when I know I am right, why on earth would I bend to people who are wrong? Why would I change my view and deny the results this team is getting or what my eyes show me or my common sense tells me? Just to be part of the herd or something? Or some Kobe cult? Or to be in denial, like so many here are? Thats no reason to change my mind.

Finally Baadmaster, what on earth does Kobes PAST have to do with this season? Or what I am saying? Or all those players you listed? Or seven finals in four years? Or your insinuation now that players love Kobe. None of those comments have a single relevance to what im talking about concerning right now. With what is happening now, to this team, this year. You know Baad, I don't mind debating people. Or even ten people at once, lol. And I enjoy seeing real points of rebuttal to my positions. Nice, valid, well stated points. But you know when it really gets to be a drag? Its when someone you debate starts posting all this irrelevant stuff that I am forced to read and then comment on. That is why interacting with you in debate with is such a chore. Because you go off on these odd tangents that have NOTHING to do with what I said. Then I gotta read this stuff and comment on it. You waste my time.

Baad, I have an idea to save both of us time in the future. After all my posts, just copy and paste, "I disagree with whatever SPQR just said," from some word document. Then copy and paste say the weather report or some other internet story to buttress your "points," since it will have as much relevance to what Im saying in future posts as the stuff you put up here for these ones.

Let me give you an example of what I mean.

SPQR posts something.

Then you copy and paste the boilerplate statement: I disgaree with whatever SPQR just said.

Then you copy and past some points to back up why you disagree. Any old thing from the net will do since it will have as much relevance as your usual tangential "points".

So you would back up your disgreement statement by saying, "This is why I disgree with SPQR," then past something, anything from the interent that is fast and convenient, like this:"Bachelor" Sean Lowe has confessed that his mother warned him about getting involved in steamy scenes that could potentially embarrass her when the show airs. The 29-year-old hunk was known to viewers as a sensitive, southern gentleman during his first appearance on "The Bachelorette" last year. But now that he is the object of affection with 26 ladies vying for his love, he will have numerous opportunities to cozy up with his potential wives-to-be.

That way Baad, you don't actually have type your usual non sequiturs and I don't have to read or respond to anything. It will do us both a favor.

Look Baad, I don't mind debating you or anyone else. But if you insist on it, do us both a favor and stay on topic.

Quote:

"The sad predictable, inevitable end of Kobe Bean Bryant:" 7 rings and #1 all time scoring

Kobeforgoat,

How much money do you want to put on that? Ill go a grand right now? You up for that?

If you accept that bet, not only post it on this thread, but PM me as it is possible I may miss it if you post in this highly populated thread. And that is one bet I really don't want to miss.

SPQR, you have a loquacious way of stating your prejudices, trying to bamboozle us. You could save yourself a lot of time by just stating:

"Kobe has a style of play that when young, was unstoppable and led to seven Finals. Now he is slowing down and, like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Steve Nash, little chinks in his armor are starting to appear. He will need stonger team mates to get another ring." Simple as that.

You make it sound as though he has committed some sort of crime by slowing down -- and only slightly, I might add. That he is killing the Lakers because he plays one way -- as all great superstars do., I am sure you too have slowed down, SPQR. Until we become a Soylent Green society, we will watch our athletes decline and cheer their great games as they become rarer and rarer.

As to your fixation with the great Bynum, that one I can't figure.

enjoythegame2
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Axle an Baad...you make some very great points, Interestingly enough this article doesn't factor key circumstances that have gone along with this atrocity of a season. The Four All Star propaganda certainly has subliminal intentions but lets deal with the said facts. The Four All Star argument - Mwp has not been an All Star in almost a decade when he was crazy Ron Ron in Indiana, Pau hasn't been an All Star since Feb 2010 prior to having the well known psychological melt down in Dallas 2010 (since then Pau has been traded, then not traded, and has faded....

Axle
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SPQR, like I said before and I will always give you credit for many great articles, but when you write about Kobe the way you did, THEN that is where you and I defer. As you saw on the last game that the Lakers played against the Utah, Jazz Kobe actually played out of position. It just shows that he is even willing to play as a point guard. You got to remember that Kobe is not a point guard, but a shooting guard. Sure the Lakers won and Kobe was the hero with many fans for being so unselfish with the ball. But really stop and think about it for a minute. Why did he have to do the facilitating? The reason is because the point guards that the Lakers have are regular junk yard dogs and can not play the number one position. Can you imagine how good the Lakers would have been with a good point guard like a CP3 doing his job, and a Kobe Bryant playing his natural position as a shooting guard. Kobe has had to sacrifice his own position to help an old point guard that does not have it anymore or a bench point guard that is simply terrible. So you see SPQR I look at Kobe as a player that just wants to win, whether it is scoring a lot or putting other players on his back and helping them on their position where they can no longer excel on. And yes I will criticize Kobe for many things that he does wrong, but your criticism runs deep into the whole career of one of the greatest shooting guards the Lakers have had. You look at Kobe as a player that is greedy and will not share....

Axle
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Very good post by enjoythegame2 and I do agree with him on some of Kobe's faults on defense. I have always criticized Kobe for roaming around trying to do too much and leaving his man open. Every man in that team should be held accountable for defending his man.

I am leaving now because I have reservations out of town and I have some driving to do. So I will catch up with you guys in about three days.

Hope our Lakers give OKC a good game.

KobeForGOAT
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Quote:

"The sad predictable, inevitable end of Kobe Bean Bryant:" 7 rings and #1 all time scoring

Quote:

Kobeforgoat,

How much money do you want to put on that? Ill go a grand right now? You up for that?

If you accept that bet, not only post it on this thread, but PM me as it is possible I may miss it if you post in this highly populated thread. And that is one bet I really don't want to miss.

You re a sad Kobe hater. no wonder why this dumb thread is -25 and counting LOL

"Michael Jordan thinks only Kobe Bryant deserves comparisons"

lakerfrommass
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Why is it whenever somebody says something negative about Kobe they're a "kobe hater".....

I don't want to speak for SPQR, but I assure all of you, he's far from a "Kobe hater".... He's a kobe realist, which is far from a Kobe hater...

Also, just because somebody is intelligent enough to see that a HEALTHY Andrew Bynum is a better player than Dwight Howard, doesn't mean they "idolize" Andrew Bynum...

I have stated Bynum is better than Howard 100s of times.. Does that mean Bynum is my idol??? Far fukcing from it people....

SPQR
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Axle, Yeah and so what? What does that mean. He played out of position. What does that have to do with what Im talking about. What does that mean to try salvaging a season? How about this, he played team ball and we looked good too. Didn't we? Gee, we actually won. How many games will he play like that? One. five. Ten. Out of the whole year? Why not play that kind of game for the next two months and see what it can do for this team? Imagine how good would we be if we had CP3? Once again what on earth does CP3 have to do with this team? Hes not here. Get used to it. And it has nothing to do with Kobe or his game. Heres something for you to imagine that could actually happen. Imagine if Kobe tried playing like he did last game for the next month. Imagine, just imagine, if the results of that game kept up. Can you imagine it Axle? And unlike CP3, he plays here so that could actually happen. So what if Kobe played most of the time like the last game, and the team looked and played like it did? See Axle, thats my whole point. What if Kobe changes his game and the team improves? So you wish we had CP3 because you imagine how good we may be, but you can't imagine Kobe playing out of position and trying something different to achieve maybe the same result. I can't even begin to imagine your logic there. Or lack of it. But you and others here say, Oh no, its not good or right or smart for him to keep trying that. Its out of position? Are you serious? Axle, what does Dwight Howard have to do with whether Kobe can at....

lakerfrommass
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SPQR wrote:

Baad,

For a guy who has hammered Kobe and even wanted him traded, suddenly you have a big turn around, lol. Nothing new for you. Like I said, you switch sides more often than a 14 year old HS girl with multiple crushes. And your side switches often are predicated on what I am saying at a given moment. Your comments are useless both as an attack on me or even as any kind of serious basketball talk to members in general. Not interesting Baad.

Randrew

I must admit, I got quite the chuckle out of this....

As you know, baad's opinions are like the New England weather... There's an old saying around here in regards to the weather.. That saying is: Just wait a minute, it'll change...

Just 3 days ago Baad started a thread about our Lakers.. In this thread he claimed he was "done watching this team".. We play one game, and baad starts another thread about our Lakers "winning it all"...

I'm not sure if it's drunk posting, early onset dementia, or if he does this sh!t purposely...

On his thread he or his opinions were deemed "bipolar" by another poster.... I feel TRI-polar may be more fitting.....

I try not to take what he says too seriously, because after all, he'll flip/flop the very next time he visits the site... Quite bizarre if you ask me....

We are all too familiar with the immediate about faces. Pau is god, Pau is soft.. Drew is a beast, trade the lazy bum. Kobe is great, the idiot is killing our team. This team sucks, I'm done watching.. Championship round here we come... WEIRD!!!!!!

SPQR
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Lol, Baptist we understand our intrepid Baad.

Just saw Magic on ABC saying on this team Kobe can't be taking 30 shots a game. Another notorious Kobe hater!

MAGICLAKEZ
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KobeForGOAT wrote:
Quote:

"The sad predictable, inevitable end of Kobe Bean Bryant:" 7 rings and #1 all time scoring

Quote:

Kobeforgoat,

How much money do you want to put on that? Ill go a grand right now? You up for that?

If you accept that bet, not only post it on this thread, but PM me as it is possible I may miss it if you post in this highly populated thread. And that is one bet I really don't want to miss.

You re a sad Kobe hater. no wonder why this dumb thread is -25 and counting LOL

*"Michael Jordan thinks only Kobe Bryant deserves comparisons"

*"Feathers of a kind flock together" Kobe is the real goat...he played Kobe ball and killed our season even before the all star break...lol....Infact we were doomed 15 games into the season. Yup he is the goat: Baaaaaa! Baaaaaa!

KobeForGOAT
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Quote:

*"Feathers of a kind flock together" Kobe is the real goat...he played Kobe ball and killed our season even before the all star break...lol....Infact we were doomed 15 games into the season. Yup he is the goat: Baaaaaa! Baaaaaa!

Yeah he killed the lakers with one of his best carrer fg% and top 3 scoring list... What killed this team was the scrubs around him.

KobeForGOAT
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Quote:

Oh, and by the way, I knew you wouldn't take that my bet. I didn't think for a minute you believed what you were saying. Your just as predictable as Kobe.

Sry i quit this "bet" childih stuff when i was 12

KobeForGOAT
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Quote:
="lakerfrommass"]Why is it whenever somebody says something negative about Kobe they're a "kobe hater".....

I have stated Bynum is better than Howard 100s of times.. Does that mean Bynum is my idol??? Far fukcing from it people....

i ve noticed that 100% of bynum lover hates the black mamba

Browns-a-Clown
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userpete1037 wrote:

[email protected] I've read on this thread. Childish on all levels. Wow!!!!!!!

Ditto.

Ego & hubris pointlessly run amok on many sides, from normally awesome people Confused .

Let's keep on debating the micro-minutia and see exactly where that gets us. It's a long winter roll .

SPQR
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Clown, Hubris from some, intelligence by others, as showed again in tonights game! It sucks for so many when someone who can see tries to tell it like it is, doesn't it? And gets proven right. It really sucks. Well, It was intersting to see Kobe, playing it the way the supposed Kobe Hater, me, and some others here, and also his teamates have been saying he must....and low an behold, we win again. And low and behold, the team looked energized and having fun..again. This time not beating Utah, but OKC no less! It must really stick in the craw of a certain segment to see us achieve this success the way I advocate Kobe to play, not the way they - the segment of radical Kobephiles- want him to do. Talk about irony. And yes, I know for a certain segment of fans, this was another lousy game. They didn't get to see their idol hold the ball intermidably, forever, dribbling away, then shooting some off balance shot with two or three guys in his face. And yes, they didn't get to see Mamba go for his forty points in a loss while the rest of the team got to watch. And yes, it always sucks to have to watch Pau, or Metta or other players actually shoot and be involved. And yeah, watching this team play team ball is just such a drag on the eyes when you want Kobe to score, score, score. Yeah, it blows to have watch Kobe pass the ball instead of shooting it, as you want. And this silly team play, who needs it when we can have Kobeball, right? But hey, its only two games so don't get too down on it. Kobeball will almost surely be back. As soon as he lets some time....

Ryno
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"And that even though we suck, stink, reek, smell, whatever other term you want to use, Kobe will not stop playing Kobeball in order to at least try to do what HE CAN to turn this around. "

Well, he has stopped playing "Kobeball" for the last two games.

Axle
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All I am saying SPQR is that everybody has to carry their weight if you want to win games. Today's game was a good example that Kobe will pass you the ball, but you better score or do something constructive. All Kobe wants is to win, and if it takes more facilitating which is the point guards job, he will do it. Today every player done a great job except Howard. He needs to get more involved in the offense and make those free throws. Today they helped Kobe and Kobe kept feeding them the ball. He showed all critics that if he has help, it is not necessary for him to shoot so much.

SPQR, nothing personal against you. I still enjoy reading your posts. We just have difference of opinion on Kobe. I think he is a born winner, while you think he is a player just thinking about his own legacy and the hell with his team mates. But I still consider you a good person and very opinionated on your posts.

SPQR
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Ryno,

Yes, for two games. Let us hope I am wrong about that and he keeps doing this for the rest of the season. Like I said, we have seen this before from Kobe when things got out of hand over the years. One thing we know is he always invariably goes back to Kobe ball. For the sake of this team and his own legacy, lets hope he breaks that pattern, finally.

I think we can agree on that, right?

SPQR
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Axle,

No offense either but you don't get it and you never will. If these last two games havent taught you anything you are beyond anything that has to do with Kobe and what the team needs from him to be at its most efficient.

Sorry to say that to you Axle, but you force me to. Again, no offense intended, its just how you are put together when it comes to Kobe.

Browns-a-Clown
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^Valid. I've always felt, from the beginning of this season, as well as in general, that a "two combo-guard" approach works best in this day and age. Especially for the type of make-up of this particular team.

As the "Kaepernick-Style" could very-well be the future of the NFL, a two combo-guard approach could be the future of the NBA. What a great way to keep the opposing defense off-balance, and greater-enable in-game adjustments on the fly.

IMO, If Kobe is as smart as I think he is, he will serve well to consistently show some flexibility and growth in this regard. The return on this investment could be a couple of more championships -- not to mention an extended career.

Example: Beware the Clippers if Chauncey Billups comes back at full strength. Big "If" -- but could happen, nonetheless.

SPQR
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Clown,

I certainly hope you are right and Kobe is as smart as you say and keeps this new brand of ball going. He is sooo talented, he can have a greater effect on this particular team, playing it this way, then with that conventional Kobeball that was not working at all.

I don't think this team can win a title even with him playing facilitator, but they would A DAMN sight better than they have been. A true playoff team and dangerous. And at this point of this disasterous season, Ill take that GLADLY!

will_lakers22
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Axle wrote:
All I am saying SPQR is that everybody has to carry their weight if you want to win games. Today's game was a good example that Kobe will pass you the ball, but you better score or do something constructive. All Kobe wants is to win, and if it takes more facilitating which is the point guards job, he will do it. Today every player done a great job except Howard. He needs to get more involved in the offense and make those free throws. Today they helped Kobe and Kobe kept feeding them the ball. He showed all critics that if he has help, it is not necessary for him to shoot so much.

this. +1000

Browns-a-Clown
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SPQR wrote:

Clown,

I certainly hope you are right and Kobe is as smart as you say and keeps this new brand of ball going. He is sooo talented, he can have a greater effect on this particular team, playing it this way, then with that conventional Kobeball that was not working at all.

*I don't think this team can win a title even with him playing facilitator, but they would A DAMN sight better than they have been. A true playoff team and dangerous. And at this point of this disasterous season, Ill take that GLADLY!

Exactly. This potential left turn on a dime could greatly alter his legacy, in the positive, and to the extreme. And we are ALL aware how important his "legacy" is to him.

Just imagine the sports history books: "At the age of 34, Kobe Bryant Identified a need, took a risk -- and became Magic Johnson; much to the further-success of the Lakers, but chagrin to the rest of the league", Lol.

*And no -- most likely not with ONE facilitator out there, but with two at the same time? We may all just be in for a pleasant surprise.

SPQR
votes: 291
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 9286
Location: Pennsylvania

Quote:

Just imagine the sports history books: "At the age of 34, Kobe Bryant Identified a need, took a risk -- and became Magic Johnson; much to the further-success of the Lakers", Lol.

Brown,

If Kobe can do that. If he finally takes the road that is so obviously the right one, for him at 34 and this particular team, to get the most from this team, it will perhaps be the finest moment of his amazing career. As a supposed Kobe Hater, lol, I will be pulling for him to do just that.

LALayup
votes: 125
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 13693
Location: RRTX

If this were a scientific experiment = hypothesis validated.

Repeat the process as often as you desire the achieved results.

Further experimentation with ineffective, individually-oriented play not necessary.

Carry on in concert with your inevitable observations and the clearly appropriate plan. Only minor adjustments necessary as needed.

No need to go back to beating your head against the wall as a basketball team in befuddled anxiety unless you simply enjoy the resultant pain. END

Axle
votes: 71
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 15004
Location: Axle

SPQR, this proves my point that Kobe is not padding his legacy like some of you claim. It proves that he will even do the job of the point guard just to win, because Nash and Duhan have not been successful. It also shows the rest of the team that he is dedicated to getting this team to the playoffs by example, by helping and showing the point guards how easy it is to facilitate and make other players better, but they also have to carry their own weight.

I was impressed with the leadership of Kobe and sacrificing his own scoring just to get everybody into the game. It is suppose to be Nash job, but he has not been too too good of a job.

This is like having flash back to the way Oscar Robertson played the game. Lol! Except the big O carried a double assist record for five years. But the way Kobe was passing the ball,it reminded me of the big O.

I myself like what I saw today on many fronts. The D'Antoni system was not played. The game was slowed down to half court and the Lakers controlled the pace. Crisp passing by Kobe, Nash and Pau had OKC confused. Kobe stopped Westbrook penetration.

Great game and the Lakers should win the next seven games if the team play with the same energy. Howard concerns me a lot on his terrible free throw shooting and his stupid fouls.

But never fear the black mamba has figured out how to get this team going, something that the coaches could not do.

SPQR
votes: 291
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 9286
Location: Pennsylvania

Quote:

SPQR, this proves my point that Kobe is not padding his legacy like some of you claim. It proves that he will even do the job of the point guard just to win, because Nash and Duhan have not been successful. It also shows the rest of the team that he is dedicated to getting this team to the playoffs by example, by helping and showing the point guards how easy it is to facilitate and make other players better, but they also have to carry their own weight.

I was impressed with the leadership of Kobe and sacrificing his own scoring just to get everybody into the game. It is suppose to be Nash job, but he has not been too too good of a job.

This is like having flash back to the way Oscar Robertson played the game. Lol! Except the big O carried a double assist record for five years. But the way Kobe was passing the ball,it reminded me of the big O.

I myself like what I saw today on many fronts. The D'Antoni system was not played. The game was slowed down to half court and the Lakers controlled the pace. Crisp passing by Kobe, Nash and Pau had OKC confused. Kobe stopped Westbrook penetration.

Great game and the Lakers should win the next seven games if the team play with the same energy. Howard concerns me a lot on his terrible free throw shooting and his stupid fouls.

But never fear the black mamba has figured out how to get this team going, something that the coaches could not do.

Axle,

Nope. It proves nothing except that being a facilitor on this team is the best way for Kobe to play at 34 with this team. As you have been fighting so hard against all this time.

Kobe will prove he is not padding his legacy if he keeps this up the rest of the year and his career. Period. If he doesn't, then its back to the same ego Kobe playing ego Kobeball and a road to nowhere.

He has to keep doing it, Axle. Not for two games. Not for four out of ever ten games. Not for week or a month. He has to play, just like this, all the time. For the rest of his career. Otherwise he is just being dumb and egotistical and destroying any chance for this team to be what it could by playing in a way that leads us nowhere. Just like he has all year till now. The other thing I will say is this, he waited way too long to make this change. Even if we play great ball from here on in, it may be too late to make the playoffs. And that would be a shame. And if thats the case, its on him.

Lets hope this sudden change is permanent, and also not to late to salvage our playoff hopes this year.

You know Axle, Kobe at 34 cannot come close to the effectiveness of Lebron and Durant, playing Kobeball. But Ill tell you what, playing this way, rebounding, passing, scoring when the shots are good, he can challenge their effectiveness again. Just in a different way. Thats how good he has played the last two games and how much he influenced those games. That is how talented this guy is.

I sure hope thats the Kobe we see from here on in because it sure is special to watch and the effect on the team is pure dynamite.

Pltan75
votes: 0
NewsSurge Newbie
Posts: 1

It's a little unfortunate that Kobe took this long to adapt his game this season, he's been in circumstances like this before, and should have drawn from experience.

In the past while under criticism he went out and played that infamous Zero FGA attempt game, as a petulant display to what was going on in the locker room.

Now one would think with events like that transpiring in his past, and I do mean the entire situation and not the game. I would have expected Kobe to realise the way he's playing now would have helped the team bond quicker and the Lakers would have a much improved record.

But IMO somewhere at the back of his mind this season, he was more concerned with putting the stamp that this is his team and he gets the shots.....

So to a certain extent, it's a little bit of a knock on him that with his experience, it took things to get so horribly bad, before he started adapting his game this week. But gosh darn it, I am super glad he did! Smile

LALayup
votes: 125
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 13693
Location: RRTX

Pltan75, Nice 1st post, and welcome to Lakers Topbuzz!

In conjunction with your comments: on the the national tv ABC coverage yesterday, Mike Breen said something along the lines of "it's such a shame that it took so long for the Lakers to play like this." I agree. Quite the shame.

Maybe it was a necessary process to get to this point...and they had to go through this together. But why? Knowledgeable fans and analysts have been crying for this kind of adjustment for so very long now that you just have to wonder.

Surely these guys and the coaches knew all along that this adjustment in approach had to be made. In addition, teammates have all but cried out in desperation for it after nearly every game. They've all been so kind and careful not to step on anybody's toes. Dwight says it all got cleared up in that meeting in Memphis. I have to believe him considering these results. He says that what the reporters said went down in the meeting was not the case, but nonetheless, that's where it got cleared up.

So really, what did take them so freakin' long? It makes me fear that it will be taken away about as quick as it was given and we'll revert back to a mere shadow of what we could be. I'd hate so much to see that happen, but it is a possibility. THIS is the way to play all the time.

ralppcobarde
votes: 28
LNS HOF Bronze
Age: 25
Posts: 6183

rp.gif

SPQR wrote:
Quote:

SPQR, this proves my point that Kobe is not padding his legacy like some of you claim. It proves that he will even do the job of the point guard just to win, because Nash and Duhan have not been successful. It also shows the rest of the team that he is dedicated to getting this team to the playoffs by example, by helping and showing the point guards how easy it is to facilitate and make other players better, but they also have to carry their own weight.

I was impressed with the leadership of Kobe and sacrificing his own scoring just to get everybody into the game. It is suppose to be Nash job, but he has not been too too good of a job.

This is like having flash back to the way Oscar Robertson played the game. Lol! Except the big O carried a double assist record for five years. But the way Kobe was passing the ball,it reminded me of the big O.

I myself like what I saw today on many fronts. The D'Antoni system was not played. The game was slowed down to half court and the Lakers controlled the pace. Crisp passing by Kobe, Nash and Pau had OKC confused. Kobe stopped Westbrook penetration.

Great game and the Lakers should win the next seven games if the team play with the same energy. Howard concerns me a lot on his terrible free throw shooting and his stupid fouls.

But never fear the black mamba has figured out how to get this team going, something that the coaches could not do.

Axle,

Nope. It proves nothing except that being a facilitor on this team is the best way for Kobe to play at 34 with this team. As you have been fighting so hard against all this time.

Kobe will prove he is not padding his legacy if he keeps this up the rest of the year and his career. Period. If he doesn't, then its back to the same ego Kobe playing ego Kobeball and a road to nowhere.

He has to keep doing it, Axle. Not for two games. Not for four out of ever ten games. Not for week or a month. He has to play, just like this, all the time. For the rest of his career. Otherwise he is just being dumb and egotistical and destroying any chance for this team to be what it could by playing in a way that leads us nowhere. Just like he has all year till now. The other thing I will say is this, he waited way too long to make this change. Even if we play great ball from here on in, it may be too late to make the playoffs. And that would be a shame. And if thats the case, its on him.

Lets hope this sudden change is permanent, and also not to late to salvage our playoff hopes this year.

You know Axle, Kobe at 34 cannot come close to the effectiveness of Lebron and Durant, playing Kobeball. But Ill tell you what, playing this way, rebounding, passing, scoring when the shots are good, he can challenge their effectiveness again. Just in a different way. Thats how good he has played the last two games and how much he influenced those games. That is how talented this guy is.

I sure hope thats the Kobe we see from here on in because it sure is special to watch and the effect on the team is pure dynamite.

Kobe still has it when he doesnt play Kobe ball. and Damn he blocked Durant twice, he looked like the player that gave us the edge in every playoff series in our championship years. when they play together, they really look unstoppable even against the best team in the NBA. play this the rest of the season and Kobe plays like this always. Badd's belief might have some colors in it.

Axle
votes: 71
LNS HOF Gold
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Location: Axle

What actually happen is that they finally told D'Atoni his run and gun was just not working. What the Lakers are playing is more suited for an aging team by controlling the pace to a half court game. I do not know who's idea it was, but that is what the Lakers need. I am all for Kobe to be the facilitator as long as it working. I really do not care if Kobe is point guard or shooting guard, but other players have to step up and help him. Even if they miss shot attempts, all I want 100 percent effort.

KobeForGOAT
votes: 3
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 529

Looks like Kobe shutted some little hater s mouths A G A I N

slief
votes: 9
Serious Laker Fan
Age: 50
Posts: 429

us.gif
LALayup, I'm not sure I completely agree. I would guess that to a large extent D'Antoni envisioned Nash being the facilitator and Kobe being the assassin. A shoot first mentality which resulted largely in an unexpected awkward flow to the game and poor shooting percentages. Players ended up alienated as they tried to run the Nash/D'Antoni style of offense. Right now what I see is a large role reversal for Kobe and Nash and in my mind, I think it's hardly anything that D'Antoni let alone Lakers management envisioned for this offense. At the end of the day, Kobe is proving to be more versatile than I would have imagined. 14 assists a great accomplishment for anybody in the NBA and not something Kobe has ever really done in the past. Yet he managed to do it two games in a row and in both games came up 1 rebound shy of a triple double. That is a hell of an accomplishment for a player of his age and reputation. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that perhaps all that time that Nash was out injured might just have been a good thing for this team and especially Kobe. It forced Kobe to play a style or role on this team that was not a role typical to him. He essentially was to a large extent a facilitator then and it would appear that is carrying over to this renewed team effort. In fact, it would appear that it's being built upon as his assists are off the charts and even so, his field goal percentage is again on the rise. The team seems to be playing their own style for the last two games. Not one that the coach expected when he was retained and not one that management....

Browns-a-Clown
votes: 16
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 1908
Location: France
fr.gif

SPQR wrote:
Quote:

Just imagine the sports history books: "At the age of 34, Kobe Bryant Identified a need, took a risk -- and became Magic Johnson; much to the further-success of the Lakers", Lol.

Brown,

If Kobe can do that. If he finally takes the road that is so obviously the right one, for him at 34 and this particular team, to get the most from this team, it will perhaps be the finest moment of his amazing career. As a supposed Kobe Hater, lol, I will be pulling for him to do just that.

^Perfectly put, Mr. R. You really do have a way with words.

Repped when I am able to (as I just Repped someone -- generous Bastard that I am, Lol).

LALayup
votes: 125
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Posts: 13693
Location: RRTX

LALayup wrote:
Pltan75, Nice 1st post, and welcome to Lakers Topbuzz!

In conjunction with your comments: on the the national tv ABC coverage yesterday, Mike Breen said something along the lines of "it's such a shame that it took so long for the Lakers to play like this." I agree. Quite the shame.

Maybe it was a necessary process to get to this point...and they had to go through this together. But why? Knowledgeable fans and analysts have been crying for this kind of adjustment for so very long now that you just have to wonder.

Surely these guys and the coaches knew all along that this adjustment in approach had to be made. In addition, teammates have all but cried out in desperation for it after nearly every game. They've all been so kind and careful not to step on anybody's toes. Dwight says it all got cleared up in that meeting in Memphis. I have to believe him considering these results. He says that what the reporters said went down in the meeting was not the case, but nonetheless, that's where it got cleared up.

So really, what did take them so freakin' long? It makes me fear that it will be taken away about as quick as it was given and we'll revert back to a mere shadow of what we could be. I'd hate so much to see that happen, but it is a possibility. THIS is the way to play all the time.

slief wrote:
LALayup,

I'm not sure I completely agree. I would guess that to a large extent D'Antoni envisioned Nash being the facilitator and Kobe being the assassin. A shoot first mentality which resulted largely in an unexpected awkward flow to the game and poor shooting percentages. Players ended up alienated as they tried to run the Nash/D'Antoni style of offense.

Right now what I see is a large role reversal for Kobe and Nash and in my mind, I think it's hardly anything that D'Antoni let alone Lakers management envisioned for this offense. At the end of the day, Kobe is proving to be more versatile than I would have imagined. 14 assists a great accomplishment for anybody in the NBA and not something Kobe has ever really done in the past. Yet he managed to do it two games in a row and in both games came up 1 rebound shy of a triple double. That is a hell of an accomplishment for a player of his age and reputation.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that perhaps all that time that Nash was out injured might just have been a good thing for this team and especially Kobe. It forced Kobe to play a style or role on this team that was not a role typical to him. He essentially was to a large extent a facilitator then and it would appear that is carrying over to this renewed team effort. In fact, it would appear that it's being built upon as his assists are off the charts and even so, his field goal percentage is again on the rise.

The team seems to be playing their own style for the last two games. Not one that the coach expected when he was retained and not one that management expected when they hired him. Instead of adapting to D'Antoni's system, they are developing their own system that caters more to their strengths. The last to 2 games have been nothing short of beautiful on both ends of the floor and everybody is involved. It was poetry in motion. If this can continue and they can build up this new rhythm and flow that they seem to have found, they are a long way from being done and really can be lethal as we would have hoped when the season began. Maybe ever better than we could have imagined.

In life, to achieve greatness, many people have to hit rock bottom. It's not a stretch to imagine that the Lakers have been going through the same scenario. If bottom was hit last week and Friday and Sundays game were the point at which we began to rebound, they are going to claw their way back with a vengeance. The next several games will be very telling and for the first time this year, I am very optimistic!

Silef, you may still disagree, but the change I was referring to as being necessary for the team's success, and the change they should have seen as being necessary all along was a general move toward more team-oriented play.

I was not speaking of the specifics of Kobe playing like a PG. I couldn't care less if he does. I do not expect it. That's a nice option to have, but I do not expect that to continue all the time. If Kobe had to do that all the time it could easily turn out to be a burden to both him and the team because he is geared toward being a scorer. There's nothing wrong with that by the way.

But even when he's primarily a scorer, he can still look for teammates as well as use team action to get open. We've played an extremely poor team game nearly all year long and Kobe's been front and center in that as well. Sure, it's not just on him by any stretch, but he does seem to hold the keys to the "Ferrari" that could be the Lakers! Ya know what I mean? It appears that he does. Hopefully we can get that uninvolved play on the part of the entire team cured for good, regardless of what particular role Kobe is playing.

SuperNutz
votes: 1
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Posts: 334

Where the hell is Terry when you need him

SPQR
votes: 291
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 9286
Location: Pennsylvania

Quote:

Looks like Kobe shutted some little hater s mouths A G A I N

lol,

KobeforGoat you really are the funniest thing going. What he did was prove me and the others who said he had to change right and you wrong! And all the other Kobephiles like you who just wanted Kobe to shoot, shoot, shoot all the live long day.

He showed that by playing the way I and some others (and his teamates) here have wanted for the last three years, this team is so much better.

He showed by playing his brand of Kobeball, that helps his scoring but kills the TEAM, he wasted the last two years and probably destroyed our chances to make the playoffs this year and certainly ended any hope for homecourt.

Now lets see if he can keep his ego in check and play the rest of the season and his career in a way that helps this team, not destroys it.

You really are funny to read. You get totally repudiated in what you say, Kobe himself shows how destructive his own brand of Kobeball was this year, and you say he shut people up, lol.

Yeah, he shut you up. And he shut up the idea of Kobeball, at 34, with this team as being the most effective method down, forever.

Priceless Goat, just priceless. Yeah, he shut his critics up. Like Germany shut up the allies in WW II. (PS: Germany lost)

TERRY-TEAGLE
votes: 41
Laker GM
Posts: 3664
Location: Belmont Shores,CA

lakerfrommass
votes: 15
LNS HOF Bronze
Posts: 5022

KobeForGOAT wrote:
Quote:
="lakerfrommass"]Why is it whenever somebody says something negative about Kobe they're a "kobe hater".....

I have stated Bynum is better than Howard 100s of times.. Does that mean Bynum is my idol??? Far fukcing from it people....

i ve noticed that 100% of bynum lover hates the black mamba

If that is what you've "noticed", my good man, you had better pay a little closer attention and "notice" a little bit better..

I'm a huge Bynum fan, Bynum Lover or whatever... Call it what you wish, for I couldn't give the fiddler's fukc....

Fact remains, I'm a huge Bynum fan, and (ready for it?) a huge Kobe fan too... Since when is it one or the other????

I have said negative sh!t about Kobe's game, Pau's, Bynum, Pygmy's, Hill, you name him, I've criticized..

Also, when I look into my closet, I have 3 Bynum jerseys and 20 different Kobe jerseys... As I try to buy any Kobe swingman I can find regardless of colors... LOL, and I've ALWAYS got a hat to match thanks to my grandmother working at Reebok/Adidas for 40+ yrs.

Anyway, you're wrong... That seems to be a common occurrence for you on this particular thread...

I really do not understand why saying realistic things about Kobe means one is a Kobe hater..

If you go back thru the thread you will see where I have admitted to disagreeing with Randy (SPQR) in regards to Kobe.... Gemfow has admitted to disagreeing with him in the past over the same issue...

I stand by my original belief that there are some games in which Kobe takes stupid shots for no apparent reason, and there are some games he takes stupid shots because his mates can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a shovel.

TERRY-TEAGLE
votes: 41
Laker GM
Posts: 3664
Location: Belmont Shores,CA

SuperNutz wrote:
Where the hell is Terry when you need him

MAGICLAKEZ
votes: 70
LNS HOF Gold
Posts: 16754
Location: Los Angeles, California
us.gif

SPQR wrote:
Quote:

Looks like Kobe shutted some little hater s mouths A G A I N

lol,

KobeforGoat you really are the funniest thing going. What he did was prove me and the others who said he had to change right and you wrong! And all the other Kobephiles like you who just wanted Kobe to shoot, shoot, shoot all the live long day.

He showed that by playing the way I and some others (and his teamates) here have wanted for the last three years, this team is so much better.

He showed by playing his brand of Kobeball, that helps his scoring but kills the TEAM, he wasted the last two years and probably destroyed our chances to make the playoffs this year and certainly ended any hope for homecourt.

Now lets see if he can keep his ego in check and play the rest of the season and his career in a way that helps this team, not destroys it.

You really are funny to read. You get totally repudiated in what you say, Kobe himself shows how destructive his own brand of Kobeball was this year, and you say he shut people up, lol.

Yeah, he shut you up. And he shut up the idea of Kobeball, at 34, with this team as being the most effective method down, forever.

Priceless Goat, just priceless. Yeah, he shut his critics up. Like Germany shut up the allies in WW II. (PS: Germany lost)

Hahahahaa.....the evil 'axis' went down but refused to surrender...or change their philosophies, due to their massive pride/ego... They thought they were indomitable till the very end....painful end if I may add!

LALayup
votes: 125
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 13693
Location: RRTX

lakerfrommass wrote:
[...] I stand by my original belief that there are some games in which Kobe takes stupid shots for no apparent reason, and there are some games he takes stupid shots because his mates can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a shovel.

That you have John! You have a very balanced approach on the topic. I would say though, that many have used that "my teammates suck" explanation. I understand it to a teensy degree. But I still don't think it holds water in a team game.

Anyway...you missed another one you might add to the list. Sometimes Kobe continues to take shots without regard to quality because HE can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a shovel either! If he withholds shots from 'mates due to a lack of efficiency, he sure doesn't allow himself the same treatment. You see...he's one extremely determined guy one way or the other. That's part of what makes him so great. I suppose somebody has to shoot! lol.

In the end though, it's just all the more reason that it's better that they trust each other across the board and always play more of the "right" way together. Normally, at least somebody is going to warm up. And if there's a hot hand, feed him and work together for him. Withholding the ball and/or shots from teammates is no way to play as a unit even if it is an explanation for what goes on at times.


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