Defying Father Time--Kobe Bryant's Legacy

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PurpleKnight
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Has anyone else noticed how young Kobe looks this year? It's amazing that Kobe is in his 17th year in the league and is STILL going strong. And not just journeyman strong. He's STILL a legitimate MVP candidate. Yes, His defense isn't what it once was. And he doesn't jump as high as his younger days. But his footwork, skill-set, competitiveness, hunger for more Championships & his professional dedication to the game keeps him elite in The NBA. Kobe is leading the league in scoring this year with a 26.9 ppg average. To go along with 5.1 rebounds. 4.8 assists. And 1.8 steals! I think he even looks younger with that shaved cut he's sporting too! 17 years in the league is a long time. For example, The average NBA career is only 6.18 years. And for All-Star players like Magic, Jordan, Bird & Kobe the average NBA career is 11.36. (Magic played 13 years, MJ 15 years, Bird 13 & Kobe Bean Bryant is in his 17th year!) To top that all off he is talking about playing until he's 40 years old! And this is going be a big part of Kobe Bryant's legacy. The best player of his generation, 5+ Championships, MVP, Finals MVP (2x), Along with scoring the most points in Laker history, 3rd in assists, 5th in rebounds & 2nd in steals...the most storied franchise in the history of the association! But what will set him apart in historical terms from every other all-time great is his dedication to keep himself healthy and his uncanny ability to fight through injuries that would keep any other NBA baller on the bench like: -broken wrist -ankle sprain -hip & elbow bursitis -sore shoulder -sprained finger -torn shoulder -sprained ankle -back injury -injured index finger (needs surgery, but he'd rather cut it off than miss any games over it). -ankle sprain -knee surgeries -he has....

Axle
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Well! I think that he does show he has aged. If you have followed Kobe since his high school days you will see a completely different Kobe then when he was playing with Shaq. His moves are a lot slower, but he plays more intelligent now then ever before. Kobe has a very high IQ of the game. The way Kobe is playing now he will pass everybody (except) Jabbar on the scoring title.

kobe11kanobe305
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The problem with KObe is that If he had better shot seleciton since he came into the league, he'd be hands down the best player ever. He's probably the best jump shooter in the NBA, that's why he's able to score 25ppg so late in his career.

Glovek8
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Axle wrote:
Well! I think that he does show he has aged. If you have followed Kobe since his high school days you will see a completely different Kobe then when he was playing with Shaq. His moves are a lot slower, but he plays more intelligent now then ever before. Kobe has a very high IQ of the game. The way Kobe is playing now he will pass everybody (except) Jabbar on the scoring title.

Got to agree with this! But the current Kobe is really much better than the Kobe 2 years ago, he was so banged up that year.. at least this current season he still have some hops.. The young Kobe was very explosive, i cant think of a current player that can be compare to him.. maybe a young wade? but he doesnt play as reckless as wade though..

BaadMaster
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As long as he can keep D12 as a team mate to get the double teams down low, the Mamba can play for another four years at almost top tier. Go Mamba! Go Lakers!

OCLakerfan8
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Good post PK. It really is amazing that Kobe can preform at this top level in this stage of his carreer. It makes it even more amazing when you think about kobe's competitors during his prime and where they are now. Guys like Iverson, Tmac, Vince Carter. Kobe Bryant certainly is a once in a life time player and the Lakers fan base is lucky to have seen him play for all this time. Sadly, he won't get the recognition he deserves, no matter how rings he gets or how many points he scores, or how many assists or steals he gets. He just has too many haters out there. What's more sad is a lot of these haters are Lakers fans too.

OCLakerfan8
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kobe11kanobe305 wrote:
The problem with KObe is that If he had better shot seleciton since he came into the league, he'd be hands down the best player ever. He's probably the best jump shooter in the NBA, that's why he's able to score 25ppg so late in his career.

I'm blaming kobe's lower FG% on the fact that he was forced to play on the perimeter so much, more than Shot Selection. IF jordan had Shaq on his Team I bet he wouldn't have the Career FG% he does. I remember no. 8 Kobe was so explosive and so good at attacking the basket but I've always felt he wasn't utilized to his fullest because of Shaq.

LALayup
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PK, I've definitely noticed along with everyone else. But I'm worried about overuse of Kobe. One thing's for sure, Kobe is going to give you everything he's got when he's on the court, except for laying back and cheating a bit on defense every now and then. He's the true Superman in the lineup, but he is human (I think Wink ). He needs to have plenty left in the tank for the playoffs or we're not going anywhere. Same goes for Pau IMO.

OCLakerfan8 wrote:
I'm blaming kobe's lower FG% on the fact that he was forced to play on the perimeter so much. IF jordan had Shaq on his Team I bet he wouldn't have the Career FG% he does. I remember no. 8 Kobe was so explosive and so good at attacking the basket but I've always felt he wasn't utilized to his fullest because of Shaq.

OCLakerfan8, Great observation IMO. As good as both Shaq and Kobe were, and they were both phenomenal, they both limited each other as well as helped each other in their game to a large extent. I also believe that Kobe held back, or at least altered his game a great deal in deference to Shaq. At times it had to be so frustrating for him personally because his talent was truly unbelievable. #8 Kobe may have been the most talented individual player I've ever seen. A team as good as the Spurs were in those days had absolutely ZERO answers for stopping him and they even admitted it.

ralppcobarde
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Kobe has been fantastico! i hope D'Antoni can limit his minutes because we need this kind of performance from him.

KBLO-24_7
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Hakeem, Magic, Michael, Bill, Larry, Shaq, Tim, KG and so on. Kobe has outlasted them. He's played more minutes in the season and playoffs. He's been asked to be the main facilitator, scorer, and defender on his teams, unlike them because of roster ineptitude.

His peers at his position a decade ago were AI, T-Mac, Vince, Ray, Rip, Manu, and later on Wade yet most are out the league or greatly reduced role guys. Kobe however has had the longest prime of any wing player in history

Kobes longevity even if he retired tomorrow can only compare to Malone and Kareem, because statistically no perimeter player has ever had such an extended prime, some have had higher peaks, but not been 25-5-5 for a decade without their minutes protected or responsibilities greatly reduced. Fact is he's truly special, a pride to have in a Laker uni, whether you like him or not personally because you know he gives his all to the job even in the offseason and always has.

LakeRobert
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KBLO-24_7 wrote:
Hakeem, Magic, Michael, Bill, Larry, Shaq, Tim, KG and so on. Kobe has outlasted them. He's played more minutes in the season and playoffs. He's been asked to be the main facilitator, scorer, and defender on his teams, unlike them because of roster ineptitude.

His peers at his position a decade ago were AI, T-Mac, Vince, Ray, Rip, Manu, and later on Wade yet most are out the league or greatly reduced role guys. Kobe however has had the longest prime of any wing player in history

Kobes longevity even if he retired tomorrow can only compare to Malone and Kareem, because statistically no perimeter player has ever had such an extended prime, some have had higher peaks, but not been 25-5-5 for a decade without their minutes protected or responsibilities greatly reduced. Fact is he's truly special, a pride to have in a Laker uni, whether you like him or not personally because you know he gives his all to the job even in the offseason and always has.

Very well put.

solidlakerfan
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We can put MJ in the discussion too. He played until he was 40 with the Wizards. He played championship basketball real well up until he was 36. Off course his time off playing baseball and the time off after the Bull's 6th championship helped reduce wear and tear on his body.

userpete1037
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I just think about all the LTBERS that dogged him this year starting with Olymipis saying he looked old and tired. SMH. Bet they eating crow now. Don't think MJ would look this good at this age knowing all the games Kobe has played including the Olympics. Unbelievable....

SuperNutz
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They usually avoid times like this.. Only pop up when Kobe had a bad game.

Axle
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Kobe had a triple double. This man is simply amazing. He is really getting everybody involved this year.

bingo24
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would love to see kobe win mvp at 34 he has had a great start to the year keep it up mamba

NBAtruthwriter
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Its been amazing witnessing Kobe's whole career up to this point. I'm looking forward to the rest of it. Should be a lot of fun...

lakerfan8
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kobe continues to defy logic. kobe putting in work

Fan-of-the-game
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KBLO-24_7 wrote:
Hakeem, Magic, Michael, Bill, Larry, Shaq, Tim, KG and so on. Kobe has outlasted them. He's played more minutes in the season and playoffs. He's been asked to be the main facilitator, scorer, and defender on his teams, unlike them because of roster ineptitude.

His peers at his position a decade ago were AI, T-Mac, Vince, Ray, Rip, Manu, and later on Wade yet most are out the league or greatly reduced role guys. Kobe however has had the longest prime of any wing player in history

Kobes longevity even if he retired tomorrow can only compare to Malone and Kareem, because statistically no perimeter player has ever had such an extended prime, some have had higher peaks, but not been 25-5-5 for a decade without their minutes protected or responsibilities greatly reduced. Fact is he's truly special, a pride to have in a Laker uni, whether you like him or not personally because you know he gives his all to the job even in the offseason and always has.

I give Kobe his props, what he is doing in his 17th season is remarkable but to be fair to those legends like Bird, Jordan, Timmy, Hakeem etc they didn't come into the league at age 17, they didn't come off the bench their 1st 2 seasons and they didn't play 2nd fiddle to the most dominate player since Wilt. 47% of Kobe's career he was not the main focal point of the defense. So his situation isn't really comparable to those other legends.

KBLO-24_7
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Fan-of-the-game wrote:
KBLO-24_7 wrote:
Hakeem, Magic, Michael, Bill, Larry, Shaq, Tim, KG and so on. Kobe has outlasted them. He's played more minutes in the season and playoffs. He's been asked to be the main facilitator, scorer, and defender on his teams, unlike them because of roster ineptitude.

His peers at his position a decade ago were AI, T-Mac, Vince, Ray, Rip, Manu, and later on Wade yet most are out the league or greatly reduced role guys. Kobe however has had the longest prime of any wing player in history

Kobes longevity even if he retired tomorrow can only compare to Malone and Kareem, because statistically no perimeter player has ever had such an extended prime, some have had higher peaks, but not been 25-5-5 for a decade without their minutes protected or responsibilities greatly reduced. Fact is he's truly special, a pride to have in a Laker uni, whether you like him or not personally because you know he gives his all to the job even in the offseason and always has.

I give Kobe his props, what he is doing in his 17th season is remarkable but to be fair to those legends like Bird, Jordan, Timmy, Hakeem etc they didn't come into the league at age 17, they didn't come off the bench their 1st 2 seasons and they didn't play 2nd fiddle to the most dominate player since Wilt. 47% of Kobe's career he was not the main focal point of the defense. So his situation isn't really comparable to those other legends.

To be fair to Kobe, he never had his minutes monitored in the season nor was he given DNPs to rest (Tim)

To be fair to Kobe, he didn't have Pippen so he had to facilitate on every title team he has been on and defend the best perimeter guy all but one run when Artest came (MJ)

To be fair to Kobe, he wasn't given a worthy who could finish, Scott who could shoot, Cooper who guard his position so he wouldn't have to, and the best scorer in league history who was willing to share spotlight 50/50 (Magic)

To be fair to Kobe, Bird wasn't told run his teams offense night in and night out for most of the years of his careers he had Dennis.

The fact is the Lakers coaches never protected Kobe's minutes, he was expected to be ale to handle the workload. The fact is most his prime he was expected to run the offense just as well as Scottie, yet score like Michael, and defend at a high level. It was expected that he would close games. It was expected that we didn't need amazing slashers who could finish or knockdown shooters sans Fish because Kobe would do the slashing, he would do the ball handling, he would do the finishing, and he would never make an excuse if he was tired or hurt. The Lakers management got by for years between the Nick and Eddie days and now with saying oh well Kobe can handle it, and even now we as fans are lucky we can simply say when Nash and put backup pg both go down, oh well Kobe will handle that job and make sure everyone is involved, get his, and grind it out in year 17 with more minutes on him than MJ, Magic, Bird, Tim, Shaq, and the like could imagine.

PlzO
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In 2001, the Spurs had the best record and the #1 ranked defense in the NBA.

22 year old Kobe averaged 33.3 PPG 7.0 REB 7.0 AST on 53% FG. That was the REAL NBA finals and Kobe was the leader in every sense of the word. Just because Shaq showed up big against weaker Eastern Conference teams in the Finals does not mean Kobe rode his coattails for a free ring. This "second fiddle" talk is absolutely ridiculous and overplayed.

Yes what Kobe has done is spectacular. After 17 years he's still running strong but not nearly where he was a decade ago. Not even close. He used to be the quickest guy on the court and could literally carry the athletic factor of an entire team. Right now that quickness and athleticism is lacking on this Lakers team, and it scares me.

When I see the tape of a young Kobe carving the Spurs defense apart, I see the Miami Heat doing the same to this squad. The 50-50 balls were 90-10 balls. The fastbreaks were unstoppable dunks. Even in the half court, the twin towers of Duncan/Robinson were not enough to contain the penetration of a relentless Kobe.

That's why I want the speedy Morris to be a part of this PG rotation so bad. That's why I want to see some fresher legs at SF behind Ron. Jamison is too old. Nash is too old. Blake is too old. Even Duhon is old for a guard of his calibur. And of course, the great Kobe Bryant is not the Kobe Bryant of a decade ago, or even 5 years ago for that matter. Something has got to be done about this. Mitch has pulled out an Ariza before. We better hope he can do it again.

Fan-of-the-game
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KBLO-24_7 wrote:

To be fair to Kobe, he never had his minutes monitored in the season nor was he given DNPs to rest (Tim)

To be fair to Kobe, he didn't have Pippen so he had to facilitate on every title team he has been on and defend the best perimeter guy all but one run when Artest came (MJ)

To be fair to Kobe, he wasn't given a worthy who could finish, Scott who could shoot, Cooper who guard his position so he wouldn't have to, and the best scorer in league history who was willing to share spotlight 50/50 (Magic)

To be fair to Kobe, Bird wasn't told run his teams offense night in and night out for most of the years of his careers he had Dennis.

.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe has never had to carry a team for pretty much his whole career like Jordan, Bird, Duncan, and Hakeem.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe for almost half of his career was not even the best or most important player on his team.

To be fair to those other legends they didn't have the luxary to play alongside the 3rd most productive player in history for 8 seasons like Kobe did.

Magic was given the greatest scorer? He got a 32 yr old Kareem who was no longer in his prime and averaged 20.6 pts with him. Shaq averaged 27 ppg with Kobe lol.

Kobe always guarded the best perimeter player? In 2000 vs Suns Rice guarded Hardaway, In 01 finals Fish guarded Iverson most of the time, in 02 vs TrailBlazers Rick Rox guarded Bonzi Well, in the 08 finals Pierce was guarded by Radmonovic for the bulk of that series, in the 09 wfc Melo was guarded by Ariza and Walton. In 09 vs Rockets Artest was guarded by Ariza. In 09 finals Hedo was guarded by Ariza. Pippen didn't guard the best player most of the time, it was Jordan out of the two.

Im not hating on Kobe but to say he out lasted those guys makes no sense. Some of those guys played in a different era from Kobe and at different ages. It's not comparable. Kobe didn't have to play in the toughest era of all-time (80's), he didn't play in a time where there were no flagrant fouls, he benefited from advanced scouting reports, advanced treatments and surgeries for injuries and benefits from these refs that protect stars at all cost. Kobe's prime may have lasted longer but a lot of those guys primes where better than his.

Fan-of-the-game
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PlzO wrote:
In 2001, the Spurs had the best record and the #1 ranked defense in the NBA.

22 year old Kobe averaged 33.3 PPG 7.0 REB 7.0 AST on 53% FG. That was the REAL NBA finals and Kobe was the leader in every sense of the word. Just because Shaq showed up big against weaker Eastern Conference teams in the Finals does not mean Kobe rode his coattails for a free ring. This "second fiddle" talk is absolutely ridiculous and overplayed.

SO you ignore full regular seasons and allow 1 series to overshadow all of that? Shaq was the leader from 97-03. Lead the Lakers in total points, rebounds, blocks, and fg%. Was the focal point of the defense every season and the 1st option, along with league MVP...He was dominating even before Kobe got in the starting lineup. It's no doubt who's team that was. Riding coatails? that's your choice of words, he was still the side kick/2nd fiddle in their 1st run, and from 2nd to 3rd run became more of a 1-2 punch combo, with SHaq being 1 and Kobe being 2 out of the punch. Weak Eastern Conference teams in the finals? Like the 04 Pistons?

Axle
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KBLO-24_7 wrote:
Fan-of-the-game wrote:
KBLO-24_7 wrote:
Hakeem, Magic, Michael, Bill, Larry, Shaq, Tim, KG and so on. Kobe has outlasted them. He's played more minutes in the season and playoffs. He's been asked to be the main facilitator, scorer, and defender on his teams, unlike them because of roster ineptitude.

His peers at his position a decade ago were AI, T-Mac, Vince, Ray, Rip, Manu, and later on Wade yet most are out the league or greatly reduced role guys. Kobe however has had the longest prime of any wing player in history

Kobes longevity even if he retired tomorrow can only compare to Malone and Kareem, because statistically no perimeter player has ever had such an extended prime, some have had higher peaks, but not been 25-5-5 for a decade without their minutes protected or responsibilities greatly reduced. Fact is he's truly special, a pride to have in a Laker uni, whether you like him or not personally because you know he gives his all to the job even in the offseason and always has.

I give Kobe his props, what he is doing in his 17th season is remarkable but to be fair to those legends like Bird, Jordan, Timmy, Hakeem etc they didn't come into the league at age 17, they didn't come off the bench their 1st 2 seasons and they didn't play 2nd fiddle to the most dominate player since Wilt. 47% of Kobe's career he was not the main focal point of the defense. So his situation isn't really comparable to those other legends.

To be fair to Kobe, he never had his minutes monitored in the season nor was he given DNPs to rest (Tim)

To be fair to Kobe, he didn't have Pippen so he had to facilitate on every title team he has been on and defend the best perimeter guy all but one run when Artest came (MJ)

Very good post and am glad you straightened out fan of the game. His post about Bird, and those others just were not right.

To be fair to Kobe, he wasn't given a worthy who could finish, Scott who could shoot, Cooper who guard his position so he wouldn't have to, and the best scorer in league history who was willing to share spotlight 50/50 (Magic)

To be fair to Kobe, Bird wasn't told run his teams offense night in and night out for most of the years of his careers he had Dennis.

The fact is the Lakers coaches never protected Kobe's minutes, he was expected to be ale to handle the workload. The fact is most his prime he was expected to run the offense just as well as Scottie, yet score like Michael, and defend at a high level. It was expected that he would close games. It was expected that we didn't need amazing slashers who could finish or knockdown shooters sans Fish because Kobe would do the slashing, he would do the ball handling, he would do the finishing, and he would never make an excuse if he was tired or hurt. The Lakers management got by for years between the Nick and Eddie days and now with saying oh well Kobe can handle it, and even now we as fans are lucky we can simply say when Nash and put backup pg both go down, oh well Kobe will handle that job and make sure everyone is involved, get his, and grind it out in year 17 with more minutes on him than MJ, Magic, Bird, Tim, Shaq, and the like could imagine.

trialsNtribulations
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Kobe is my guy so yes I am amazed at this level of professionalism in terms of his approach and preparedness towards the game. He comes ready to play every game, always has, exudes as much joy and enthusiasm and energy as he did when he was much younger. He is clearly zoned in and ready to win an MVP this year and championship. However, pundits have already assigned the award to LeBrag James again...smh!!!

SaVaGe-DeF
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Quote:
Kobe through 10 Lakers games: 26.4 points, 5.7 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 52.8 FG%, 40.5 3pt%, 89.4 FT%.

PlzO
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Fan-of-the-game wrote:
PlzO wrote:
In 2001, the Spurs had the best record and the #1 ranked defense in the NBA.

22 year old Kobe averaged 33.3 PPG 7.0 REB 7.0 AST on 53% FG. That was the REAL NBA finals and Kobe was the leader in every sense of the word. Just because Shaq showed up big against weaker Eastern Conference teams in the Finals does not mean Kobe rode his coattails for a free ring. This "second fiddle" talk is absolutely ridiculous and overplayed.

SO you ignore full regular seasons and allow 1 series to overshadow all of that? Shaq was the leader from 97-03. Lead the Lakers in total points, rebounds, blocks, and fg%. Was the focal point of the defense every season and the 1st option, along with league MVP...He was dominating even before Kobe got in the starting lineup. It's no doubt who's team that was. Riding coatails? that's your choice of words, he was still the side kick/2nd fiddle in their 1st run, and from 2nd to 3rd run became more of a 1-2 punch combo, with SHaq being 1 and Kobe being 2 out of the punch. Weak Eastern Conference teams in the finals? Like the 04 Pistons?

Oh, the '04 Pistons! You wanna ignore the fact that the Champion came out of the Western Conference 5 straight years? The East had nobody and the two best teams always squared off in the WCF. Anybody watching basketball knew that that series was where the championship was decided.

PurpleKnight
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As dominant as Shaq was he had his flaws, his biggest being his free throw shooting. He was a career 52.7% free throw shooter and only shot over 60% from the line once out of 18 seasons. As dominant as he was, shooting free-throws 40%-50% can be detrimental to the team and is unacceptable even for Centers. He was so bad that in the 4th quarter and sometimes even earlier in the game teams would just foul him intentionally instead of having to deal with him. Phil Jackson was forced to take him out during some of the most critical moments at the end of games to avoid Shaq the embarrassment of missing 1 or both free-throws and costing us the game. Another flaw was that Shaq had his share of problems with injury. Not counting the lockout season he failed to reach 60 games played in 8 of his 18 seasons played meaning he missed at least 1/4 of the season 8 times which is over 40% of his career. (Kobe has played over 60 games every single season of his career and is rarely ever out of the lineup. Even though he's never had a major sidelining injury in his career he has had some painful ones and when most players might sit out a game or two Kobe fights through the pain and plays anyway and still performs at a high level even when hurt.) (see my post up above to see how Kobe handles injuries) Also Shaq just had no game what so ever outside of the paint so in the rare situations he was forced away from the rim he wasn't nearly as effective. In my opinion his arsenal of post moves wasn't elite he was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic and physically gifted overall than....

DaAssasins
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userpete1037 wrote:
I just think about all the LTBERS that dogged him this year starting with Olymipis saying he looked old and tired. SMH. Bet they eating crow now. Don't think MJ would look this good at this age knowing all the games Kobe has played including the Olympics. Unbelievable....

Great article PK. And yes userpete, where are the Kobe haters now?? remember all last year, all the Bynumites on this forum, trying to trash Kobe, for being old, lost a step, selfish, and not our best player. But, look at what Kobe is doing this year, definitely MVP caliber, and look at where Bynum is....yes hasn't played a game.

Bottom line, this is Kobe's team, we will only go as far as Kobe will lead us, and despite our struggles this year, I am always confident, that we have a chance to win, as long as #24 is on the court wearing Purple and Gold!! Go Lakers!!! Showtime is back!!

userpete1037
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DaAssasins wrote:
userpete1037 wrote:
I just think about all the LTBERS that dogged him this year starting with Olymipis saying he looked old and tired. SMH. Bet they eating crow now. Don't think MJ would look this good at this age knowing all the games Kobe has played including the Olympics. Unbelievable....

Great article PK. And yes userpete, where are the Kobe haters now?? remember all last year, all the Bynumites on this forum, trying to trash Kobe, for being old, lost a step, selfish, and not our best player. But, look at what Kobe is doing this year, definitely MVP caliber, and look at where Bynum is....yes hasn't played a game.

Bottom line, this is Kobe's team, we will only go as far as Kobe will lead us, and despite our struggles this year, I am always confident, that we have a chance to win, as long as #24 is on the court wearing Purple and Gold!! Go Lakers!!! Showtime is back!!

No doubt brotha. Amen 2 DAT!!!!

will_lakers22
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where MAGICLAKEZ? his statement such as, Kobe the ballhog, Kobe not a team player, kobe the selfish, bla bla bla. just saying.

renteria24
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Lakers will always have an all star on the team but none compared to kobe. Been watching kobe since i was 7. Hes been playing my whole life. Its going to be depressing watching him walk away. In my opinion, he is the greatest. No one can change my opinion on that. Everyone views things differently. In times of stress, watching kobe play sooth everything.

Fan-of-the-game
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Posts: 469

PlzO wrote:
Fan-of-the-game wrote:
PlzO wrote:
In 2001, the Spurs had the best record and the #1 ranked defense in the NBA.

22 year old Kobe averaged 33.3 PPG 7.0 REB 7.0 AST on 53% FG. That was the REAL NBA finals and Kobe was the leader in every sense of the word. Just because Shaq showed up big against weaker Eastern Conference teams in the Finals does not mean Kobe rode his coattails for a free ring. This "second fiddle" talk is absolutely ridiculous and overplayed.

SO you ignore full regular seasons and allow 1 series to overshadow all of that? Shaq was the leader from 97-03. Lead the Lakers in total points, rebounds, blocks, and fg%. Was the focal point of the defense every season and the 1st option, along with league MVP...He was dominating even before Kobe got in the starting lineup. It's no doubt who's team that was. Riding coatails? that's your choice of words, he was still the side kick/2nd fiddle in their 1st run, and from 2nd to 3rd run became more of a 1-2 punch combo, with SHaq being 1 and Kobe being 2 out of the punch. Weak Eastern Conference teams in the finals? Like the 04 Pistons?

Oh, the '04 Pistons! You wanna ignore the fact that the Champion came out of the Western Conference 5 straight years? The East had nobody and the two best teams always squared off in the WCF. Anybody watching basketball knew that that series was where the championship was decided.

My point about the 04 Pistons was you said Shaq showed up against weak eastern teams, well the Pistons was elite and Shaq showed up while Kobe didn't.

Ok so you say SHaq showed up against weak east teams, what about the fact that he dominated the regular season year in and year out? Winning MVP while also being the most productive player in the league in that span. Shaq dominate all stages.

Ok the WCF finals was the true finals ok well lets take a look at Kobe and SHaq's numbers during their 3 peat in their 3 WCF match ups. Since you weren't kind enough to tell the whole story, only providing 22 yr old Kobe's numbers, I'll show all numbers as a whole and keep it fair.

SO- 53%fg 0%3p 55%ft 13reb 2.8ast 0.3stl 1.9blk 27.8ppg

KB- 45%fg 42%3p 75%ft 5.8reb 5.3ast 1.5stl 1.5blk 25.8ppg

Does those numbers show Kobe was the leader in every sense? Numbers are not far from each other but SHaq's numbers are still more efficient and productive. Kobe may have shined brighter in a few series here and there but Shaq out shined Kobe overall for their duration together. That is a fact. Kobe didn't ride Shaq the final 2 titles but it was no doubt who was the man and who's team it was, SHaq. I don't see why you guys get so butt hurt over that fact. Shaq was so dominate, Bird, Magic, Jordan, LeBron etc all would have been the 2nd option next to him.

lake24show
votes: 7
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Age: 32
Posts: 1176
Location: Nebraska
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Fan-of-the-game wrote:
KBLO-24_7 wrote:

To be fair to Kobe, he never had his minutes monitored in the season nor was he given DNPs to rest (Tim)

To be fair to Kobe, he didn't have Pippen so he had to facilitate on every title team he has been on and defend the best perimeter guy all but one run when Artest came (MJ)

To be fair to Kobe, he wasn't given a worthy who could finish, Scott who could shoot, Cooper who guard his position so he wouldn't have to, and the best scorer in league history who was willing to share spotlight 50/50 (Magic)

To be fair to Kobe, Bird wasn't told run his teams offense night in and night out for most of the years of his careers he had Dennis.

.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe has never had to carry a team for pretty much his whole career like Jordan, Bird, Duncan, and Hakeem.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe for almost half of his career was not even the best or most important player on his team.

To be fair to those other legends they didn't have the luxary to play alongside the 3rd most productive player in history for 8 seasons like Kobe did.

Magic was given the greatest scorer? He got a 32 yr old Kareem who was no longer in his prime and averaged 20.6 pts with him. Shaq averaged 27 ppg with Kobe lol.

Kobe always guarded the best perimeter player? In 2000 vs Suns Rice guarded Hardaway, In 01 finals Fish guarded Iverson most of the time, in 02 vs TrailBlazers Rick Rox guarded Bonzi Well, in the 08 finals Pierce was guarded by Radmonovic for the bulk of that series, in the 09 wfc Melo was guarded by Ariza and Walton. In 09 vs Rockets Artest was guarded by Ariza. In 09 finals Hedo was guarded by Ariza. Pippen didn't guard the best player most of the time, it was Jordan out of the two.

Im not hating on Kobe but to say he out lasted those guys makes no sense. Some of those guys played in a different era from Kobe and at different ages. It's not comparable. Kobe didn't have to play in the toughest era of all-time (80's), he didn't play in a time where there were no flagrant fouls, he benefited from advanced scouting reports, advanced treatments and surgeries for injuries and benefits from these refs that protect stars at all cost. Kobe's prime may have lasted longer but a lot of those guys primes where better than his.

Haha this just made me laugh...how some people truly don't know what they are posting..lol

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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DaAssasins wrote:
userpete1037 wrote:
I just think about all the LTBERS that dogged him this year starting with Olymipis saying he looked old and tired. SMH. Bet they eating crow now. Don't think MJ would look this good at this age knowing all the games Kobe has played including the Olympics. Unbelievable....

Great article PK. And yes userpete, where are the Kobe haters now?? remember all last year, all the Bynumites on this forum, trying to trash Kobe, for being old, lost a step, selfish, and not our best player. But, look at what Kobe is doing this year, definitely MVP caliber, and look at where Bynum is....yes hasn't played a game.

Bottom line, this is Kobe's team, we will only go as far as Kobe will lead us, and despite our struggles this year, I am always confident, that we have a chance to win, as long as #24 is on the court wearing Purple and Gold!! Go Lakers!!! Showtime is back!!

What does last season have to do with this season? He did look bad a lot of times last season, he was very selfish at times which translated into him averaging like 29 shots a game over a ten game stretch. I'm happier than anyone to see Kobe play like he is now, he's taking less threes, averages about 17-18 shots per game and has looked to penetrate more. This is TOTALLY independent of what he was doing last season.

KBLO-24_7
votes: 29
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 1025

lake24show wrote:
Fan-of-the-game wrote:
KBLO-24_7 wrote:

To be fair to Kobe, he never had his minutes monitored in the season nor was he given DNPs to rest (Tim)

To be fair to Kobe, he didn't have Pippen so he had to facilitate on every title team he has been on and defend the best perimeter guy all but one run when Artest came (MJ)

To be fair to Kobe, he wasn't given a worthy who could finish, Scott who could shoot, Cooper who guard his position so he wouldn't have to, and the best scorer in league history who was willing to share spotlight 50/50 (Magic)

To be fair to Kobe, Bird wasn't told run his teams offense night in and night out for most of the years of his careers he had Dennis.

.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe has never had to carry a team for pretty much his whole career like Jordan, Bird, Duncan, and Hakeem.

To be fair to those other legends Kobe for almost half of his career was not even the best or most important player on his team.

To be fair to those other legends they didn't have the luxary to play alongside the 3rd most productive player in history for 8 seasons like Kobe did.

Magic was given the greatest scorer? He got a 32 yr old Kareem who was no longer in his prime and averaged 20.6 pts with him. Shaq averaged 27 ppg with Kobe lol.

Kobe always guarded the best perimeter player? In 2000 vs Suns Rice guarded Hardaway, In 01 finals Fish guarded Iverson most of the time, in 02 vs TrailBlazers Rick Rox guarded Bonzi Well, in the 08 finals Pierce was guarded by Radmonovic for the bulk of that series, in the 09 wfc Melo was guarded by Ariza and Walton. In 09 vs Rockets Artest was guarded by Ariza. In 09 finals Hedo was guarded by Ariza. Pippen didn't guard the best player most of the time, it was Jordan out of the two.

Im not hating on Kobe but to say he out lasted those guys makes no sense. Some of those guys played in a different era from Kobe and at different ages. It's not comparable. Kobe didn't have to play in the toughest era of all-time (80's), he didn't play in a time where there were no flagrant fouls, he benefited from advanced scouting reports, advanced treatments and surgeries for injuries and benefits from these refs that protect stars at all cost. Kobe's prime may have lasted longer but a lot of those guys primes where better than his.

Haha this just made me laugh...how some people truly don't know what they are posting..lol

man we just imagined Kobe on Iverson, the fact Kobe ended up on Melo or Artest because Ariza got rag dolled, that Kobe was on Kidd the Suns head of the snake as Tex called him in Phoenix and then Oenny late, that he took a hot Bibby, that he took Manu, that he took Tony down 0-2 after Payton was burned, and so on. Damn my memory is gone with age, but least I'm glad some lakers fans are gone too Wink

KBLO-24_7
votes: 29
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 1025

gemfow wrote:
DaAssasins wrote:
userpete1037 wrote:
I just think about all the LTBERS that dogged him this year starting with Olymipis saying he looked old and tired. SMH. Bet they eating crow now. Don't think MJ would look this good at this age knowing all the games Kobe has played including the Olympics. Unbelievable....

Great article PK. And yes userpete, where are the Kobe haters now?? remember all last year, all the Bynumites on this forum, trying to trash Kobe, for being old, lost a step, selfish, and not our best player. But, look at what Kobe is doing this year, definitely MVP caliber, and look at where Bynum is....yes hasn't played a game.

Bottom line, this is Kobe's team, we will only go as far as Kobe will lead us, and despite our struggles this year, I am always confident, that we have a chance to win, as long as #24 is on the court wearing Purple and Gold!! Go Lakers!!! Showtime is back!!

What does last season have to do with this season? He did look bad a lot of times last season, he was very selfish at times which translated into him averaging like 29 shots a game over a ten game stretch. I'm happier than anyone to see Kobe play like he is now, he's taking less threes, averages about 17-18 shots per game and has looked to penetrate more. This is TOTALLY independent of what he was doing last season.

It doesn't help that last season they were playing Kobe on the n

Ball with a torn tendon in his shooting wrist. That they didn't give him a week off to get the same injection in his hands and wrist he got this year. That Mike Clown was a fool and constantly going between a motion and 4 corners O.

One thing was clear though, Kobe MADE Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol by being on the floor. Their percentages jumped greatly when he was on the floor, they dropped when he sat, and they damn right plummeted when he missed games as Bynum was a 42% guy on 19 attempts and Pau was a 46% guy on 15. In fact the only player last year who had higher offensive ratings when Kobe sat and missed games was Ron Artest as everyone else's plummeted.

Contribute it to over dependence and a clown mismanaging everything like I do, as Kobe was overextended literally last year as there were 12 regular season games where he didn't sit a second of third, fourth, or overtime quarters. There were 5 playoff games where the same thing happened. In fact Kobe was on pace to lead the league in total minutes last year until his shin injury

Clippers2012
votes: 6
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 703

gemfow wrote:
What does last season have to do with this season? He did look bad a lot of times last season, he was very selfish at times which translated into him averaging like 29 shots a game over a ten game stretch. I'm happier than anyone to see Kobe play like he is now, he's taking less threes, averages about 17-18 shots per game and has looked to penetrate more. This is TOTALLY independent of what he was doing last season.

I would hope that this triple double is Kobe every game, but i doubt it. Kobe, talent wise, best player ever, he seems to only average a triple double when he wants to prove a point that its easy for himto do it. I would hope that he decides to do this every game and not do his typical hero ball and shoot for 50 points a game. He is in the final years of is career I hope he goes out well and leaves a good legacy..i want to be able to tell my kids that kobe was the most talented player ever...its up to kobe how he goes out though

Clippers2012
votes: 6
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 703

renteria24 wrote:
Lakers will always have an all star on the team but none compared to kobe. Been watching kobe since i was 7. Hes been playing my whole life. Its going to be depressing watching him walk away. In my opinion, he is the greatest. No one can change my opinion on that. Everyone views things differently. In times of stress, watching kobe play sooth everything.

Its a very special memory indeed my friend. Kobe, Magic, Wilt, Kareem...etc. amazing legacy.

Fan-of-the-game
votes: 7
Serious Laker Fan
Posts: 469

KBLO-24_7 wrote:

Haha this just made me laugh...how some people truly don't know what they are posting..lol man we just imagined Kobe on Iverson, the fact Kobe ended up on Melo or Artest because Ariza got rag dolled, that Kobe was on Kidd the Suns head of the snake as Tex called him in Phoenix and then Oenny late, that he took a hot Bibby, that he took Manu, that he took Tony down 0-2 after Payton was burned, and so on. Damn my memory is gone with age, but least I'm glad some lakers fans are gone too Wink

You can't be that simple minded to believe I was suggesting that Kobe never guarded Iverson a single sec throughout that series. That previous poster said Kobe defended the best perimeter player like Pippen had to for Jordan, which was two lies in one. Well Iverson was not Kobe's primary assignment in the 01 finals, it was Mckie. Just for example in gm 1 out of 103 possessions with both KObe and IVerson on the court Kobe defended Iverson only 43 possessions and not a single possession in crunch time, that was actually Lue. In gm 2 out of 84 possessions with Kobe and Iverson both on the floor Kobe guarded Iverson only 12 times, thats only 14% of that game and the same for the rest of the series. You can point out instances where Kobe were on these guys for stretches all you want, just like I proved for Iverson with facts, Kobe did not have the assignment to guard these guys for more than half of the game and he didn't. But yet I'm the one that doesn't know what I am talking about hahaha

PurpleKnight
votes: 109
LNS HOF Bronze

Posts: 6817
Location: PurpleKnight
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These 2 tweets are classic examples of what I've been talking about and the difference between the Black Mamba and everyone else:

Alex Kennedy‏

@AlexKennedyNBA

San Antonio Spurs small forward Stephen Jackson fractured his pinky finger during tonight's game. He'll be sidelined for four-to-six weeks.

Alex Kennedy�"

@AlexKennedyNBA

Kyrie Irving will miss four weeks with a hairline/non-displaced fracture in his left index finger

gemfow
votes: 181
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 12402
Location: Maryland
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KBLO: First off Kobe decided to forego any sort of treatment to his wrist. Also I believe Kobe played better at the beginning of the season last year when he was utilizing screens, something he is doing this season. I've been saying for a while that at this stage in his career he needs to utilize screens more and limit the threes and he has done both so far. Kobe and whatever offense really doesn't matter that much because knee will break whatever offense and he's done it this season and last. The offense changed at least four times from what I could tell last season and when Kobe went into the pinh post primarily, that's when his shooting percentage started to plummet because it was too much one on one which he didn't always have a clear advantage. Things should be even better this season with a better offense installed by Antoni.

Clippers2012: I've told people that I believe Kobe has underachieved to a degree as a player. This guy is so talented that he could avg at least 7-8 assists per game but he has focused more on scoring. Kobe is somewhat of a schizo on the court. Sometimes he will go a two to three game stretch of making all these types of passes to guys but then will go back into scoring mode. I like the Kobe that I saw last game, a balanced player with scoring and assisting lesser players to score.

LALayup
votes: 125
LNS HOF Silver

Posts: 13693
Location: RRTX

gemfow wrote:
What does last season have to do with this season? He did look bad a lot of times last season, he was very selfish at times which translated into him averaging like 29 shots a game over a ten game stretch. I'm happier than anyone to see Kobe play like he is now, he's taking less threes, averages about 17-18 shots per game and has looked to penetrate more. This is TOTALLY independent of what he was doing last season.

Clippers2012 wrote:
I would hope that this triple double is Kobe every game, but i doubt it. Kobe, talent wise, best player ever, he seems to only average a triple double when he wants to prove a point that its easy for himto do it. I would hope that he decides to do this every game and not do his typical hero ball and shoot for 50 points a game. He is in the final years of is career I hope he goes out well and leaves a good legacy..i want to be able to tell my kids that kobe was the most talented player ever...its up to kobe how he goes out though

Clippers2012, Your doubt is probably well founded. I've dreamed for years of seeing Kobe become a more consistently balanced team player. But as Gemfow and you have said, he has gone in and out of this mode before, even when it did not appear to be necessary. At times it appeared to be to the detriment of the team. It seems at times the motivation to be a scorer overcomes him and come hell or high water he's going to score or attempt to score, even if it's in an inefficient manner. So we'll see. All I can say is that was one phenomenal well balanced player out there on Sunday night, and especially for his age and mileage. We'll see how it goes in the future. No guarantees that he'll continue to play that way...LOL

TheMagicontinues
votes: 5
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 877

Quote:
"Clippers2012"I would hope that this triple double is Kobe every game,

You gotta be kidding. roll Nobodies EVER done that.

,

Quote:
he seems to only average a triple double when he wants to prove a point that its easy for himto do it.

Or..... It's very hard to do, and only happens every blue moon for MOST players of his caliber, even MJ rarely did it and Magic Johnson.... Ya think? roll

Clippers2012
votes: 6
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 703

@lalayup and @gemfow. Good observations on kobe. I have to agree with both of you the man can be the best player ever when he distributes and does the other things that help a team more. I love watching team orientated kobe

lakeshowsd
votes: 145
LNS HOF Silver
Posts: 14661
Location: North Bend, OR
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Kobe's having a good year so far, though it's still only 10 games into the season, so obviously there's a long way to go. Any talks of MVP are premature at best. Bottom line, I wish he had played with this same level of efficiency in recent years and for most of his career, which he didn't. That's why I can especially appreciate great champions like Lebron and Wade, who seemed to put up great stats and efficiency while also being champions. Let's see if old man Kobe can keep it up. Fingers crossed. Sadly, if history repeats itself, some injury will cause him to start shooting 43% again. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

will_lakers22
votes: 2
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 997

lakeshowsd wrote:
Kobe's having a good year so far, though it's still only 10 games into the season, so obviously there's a long way to go. Any talks of MVP are premature at best. Bottom line, I wish he had played with this same level of efficiency in recent years and for most of his career, which he didn't. That's why I can especially appreciate great champions like Lebron and Wade, who seemed to put up great stats and efficiency while also being champions. Let's see if old man Kobe can keep it up. Fingers crossed. Sadly, if history repeats itself, some injury will cause him to start shooting 43% again. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Bottomline is that,it is sad to say your great champion was and has been great last year, but i believe its unfair to compare a 35 yr old kobe, to a Wade or LBJ, average age of 27. and to the fact that, your great champions won only 3 championships combined as to what kobe has, and yet his still not that great to you..

his shot efficiency is not that high BUT not that low, if you look at his shot, most or half of it are crazy impossible or sometimes label as a Horse shot, the degree of difficulty of his shot is incomparable to any NBA players of all time, BECAUSE, we ca all agree on this, his shots are poor and force. but still, we should be grateful to a once in a lifetime player like Kobe, wherein, he has sustained numerous injuries, play through it while dominating the game, is just outstanding.

solidlakerfan
votes: 4
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 2426

lakeshowsd wrote:
Kobe's having a good year so far, though it's still only 10 games into the season, so obviously there's a long way to go. Any talks of MVP are premature at best. Bottom line, I wish he had played with this same level of efficiency in recent years and for most of his career, which he didn't. That's why I can especially appreciate great champions like Lebron and Wade, who seemed to put up great stats and efficiency while also being champions. Let's see if old man Kobe can keep it up. Fingers crossed. Sadly, if history repeats itself, some injury will cause him to start shooting 43% again. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Kobe is a great champion too. I understand your admiration for LBJ since he is really a freak of nature, but wade? Kobe is way better than him even at Kobe's age right now where he is past his prime he is still better than Wade.

trialsNtribulations
votes: 9
Laker GM
Posts: 3272

^^Wow...about Kobe, no words! Personally, I think he's all world but that's just me! He does alot and has been asked to do more on the Lakers than most, but I wont get mixed up in the drama. I am so grateful he is a Lakers and would not prefer any other player over him. 17 years and counting, he is still amazing...

makeman
votes: 5
Laker GM
Posts: 3293

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Kobe is a god of basketball and I agree with my friend Kobe is "all world". I don't think no other superstar player has ever dominated his sport for this long. I know the season is still early but mamba is balling 08' style and that's super great for us fans and horrible horrible news for other teams. If Kobe continues to play like this all year long, I think we will go to the finals. All these other guys have come after Kobe yet Kobe is still number1 doing what he do best.


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