Phil, do you understand "MOMENTUM"?

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oldschoolfan
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Watching the denver game tonight, and once again Phil failed to act to stop the momentum swing. Anytime you let a team roll off a 16 to zero

run without killing the clock, somehow,ie:timeouts,substitutions you 're inviting bad things to happen. We had a 7 point lead disapper, when they went on a un-checked ,un-interupped 16 to 0 run late in the third. we had that game under control until then. This is not a rare occurence. Over the years i have seen many,and i mean MANY games where Phil will not stop the clock, and kill the momentum that our opponents are building. Hey Phil, you don't get to roll-over your unused timeouts to the next game. You don't get extra credits, extra miles, or 50% off your next purchase. What is up with this glaring defect in your coaching style? I can't be the only one who screams at the t.v "TIME_OUT" PHIL!!!!!!

What do you think?

kickslick
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Calm down. We saw the same things last season. He seems to let the players get a better feel of the game and tries to make them understand what he wants them to do without taking a time out. He also gets a better understanding about the character of the team and in which areas the team fails in pressure situations and this helps the team at a later stage. If you look closely enough, you'll see Phil stopping momentum shifts a lot more once we get near the playoffs and kills off any momentum build up the other team makes in the playoffs. Afterall, he ain't a 11 time world champion coach for nothing.

BaadMaster
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kickslick wrote:
Calm down. We saw the same things last season. He seems to let the players get a better feel of the game and tries to make them understand what he wants them to do without taking a time out. He also gets a better understanding about the character of the team and in which areas the team fails in pressure situations and this helps the team at a later stage. If you look closely enough, you'll see Phil stopping momentum shifts a lot more once we get near the playoffs and kills off any momentum build up the other team makes in the playoffs. Afterall, he ain't a 11 time world champion coach for nothing.

Well said.

One observation: all these minutes seem to be taking a toll on Pau. That is my only criticism of Phil. If Ratliff is unavailable and Caracter not up to the job, we will need to pick up a disgruntled center before the trade deadline. Maybe for Sasha.

flixos
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BaadMaster wrote:
kickslick wrote:
Calm down. We saw the same things last season. He seems to let the players get a better feel of the game and tries to make them understand what he wants them to do without taking a time out. He also gets a better understanding about the character of the team and in which areas the team fails in pressure situations and this helps the team at a later stage. If you look closely enough, you'll see Phil stopping momentum shifts a lot more once we get near the playoffs and kills off any momentum build up the other team makes in the playoffs. Afterall, he ain't a 11 time world champion coach for nothing.

Well said.

One observation: all these minutes seem to be taking a toll on Pau. That is my only criticism of Phil. If Ratliff is unavailable and Caracter not up to the job, we will need to pick up a disgruntled center before the trade deadline. Maybe for Sasha.

I agree on Pau's point. We need Drew coming back to set up the rotations, but i can´t see why Caracter or Ratliff are not getting more minutes; maybe not at the 4th quarter, but...

DFishSuperFan
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My response would go right along with kickslick's statement. Phil understands the extreme value in letting the bench play through those tough minutes in the game rather than exhausting the starters by having them come in to bail out the bench for their mistakes. I think the Lakers learn a lot more about themselves by losing this game compared to if they had won and continued their winning streak.

lakerfrommass
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Big Chief Triangle certainly has a unique way of doing things. That being said, I don't think any of us are in position to question him. The results speak for themselves. He's trying to teach his guys to fight through adversity.

darknessmoon
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These lessons will be more valuable in the playoffs, more valuable than some silly regular season record. I wonder if Barnes and Blake were like, "wtf? How come Phil hasn't called a TO?"

Lol He's gotta get them to adjust and react to what is happening. Better that the newbies get a feel for it now and be ready come "real season" time. Funny, how now a loss doesn't upset me so much as it did last season. We're back-to-back champs, so this feels goooooooood... Let's take'em as they come!

lakeshowsd
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The Lakers didn't lose the game because Phil failed to call timeouts. They lost because they played stupid ball, jacked up 3 after 3, and failed to work for higher percentage shots in the 4th quarter. We shouldn't expect to win a game when Kobe, Pau, and Lamar shoot a combined 32% from the field (18-55).

lakerfrommass
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darknessmoon wrote:
These lessons will be more valuable in the playoffs, more valuable than some silly regular season record. I wonder if Barnes and Blake were like, "wtf? How come Phil hasn't called a TO?"

Lol He's gotta get them to adjust and react to what is happening. Better that the newbies get a feel for it now and be ready come "real season" time. Funny, how now a loss doesn't upset me so much as it did last season. We're back-to-back champs, so this feels goooooooood... Let's take'em as they come!

Exactly Moon... I look at it this way. All teams are basically guaranteed to win 15 games and lose 15 games. It's what you do in the other 52, if you understand what I am saying.. We will not win every game we play.. We will lose in some hostile environments, and Dungver is a hostile environment. For one, I saw this loss coming, but even still, it's really no big deal. Beat us once, that's one thing, beat us 4x in 7 games is another.

4lakers
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It appeared to me that Phil wanted the Lakers to lose this game. Actually, it seemed he would of rather lost the last game against the Timberwolves. We all saw during the playoffs - when it really mattered Phil was almost as quick as any other coach to call a time-out to stop mo'; however, I think because the Lakers skated and still won against the Wolves - he just sat back and watched them sink themselves with poor defense and lots of three jacking. I was glad to see it. We all saw how incredibly well the Lakers when they are fully engaged, talking on defense, making sharp rotation etc can dismantle a team as good as Portland. Then they come in a lay a couple of low effort turds like the Wolves and Nuggets game. I think this loss, especially considering it was against the Nuggets AND that the Lakers have a couple of days to think about it is a great learning lesson: 1) You can't just outscore people - especially with three's - they tried that last night and they got outscored themselves. You must make the effort on defense. 2) You have to start with Pau and ball movement is key. Kobe going back to a quarter of iso's like the Wolves game and the Nuggets game is not a winning recipe. Kobe taking the ball into the paint and passing to open people = winning recipe. Kobe was still scoring great before these last two games where it seems like his knee is better, but I suppose Kobe can't have Pau being the top scorer on the Lakers - just is not in Kobe's DNA. It seems he would rather lose the game then lose his top dog scoring roll on the team. That is too bad. I....

lakerfrommass
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4lakers wrote:
It appeared to me that Phil wanted the Lakers to lose this game. Actually, it seemed he would of rather lost the last game against the Timberwolves. We all saw during the playoffs - when it really mattered Phil was almost as quick as any other coach to call a time-out to stop mo'; however, I think because the Lakers skated and still won against the Wolves - he just sat back and watched them sink themselves with poor defense and lots of three jacking.

I was glad to see it. We all saw how incredibly well the Lakers when they are fully engaged, talking on defense, making sharp rotation etc can dismantle a team as good as Portland. Then they come in a lay a couple of low effort turds like the Wolves and Nuggets game.

I think this loss, especially considering it was against the Nuggets AND that the Lakers have a couple of days to think about it is a great learning lesson:

1) You can't just outscore people - especially with three's - they tried that last night and they got outscored themselves. You must make the effort on defense.

2) You have to start with Pau and ball movement is key. Kobe going back to a quarter of iso's like the Wolves game and the Nuggets game is not a winning recipe. Kobe taking the ball into the paint and passing to open people = winning recipe. Kobe was still scoring great before these last two games where it seems like his knee is better, but I suppose Kobe can't have Pau being the top scorer on the Lakers - just is not in Kobe's DNA. It seems he would rather lose the game then lose his top dog scoring roll on the team. That is too bad. I think Kobe is the greatest of all time, but you got to let this kind of stuff go sometimes.

They showed a stat on TNT last night that this season Pau's shots per game were up and Kobe's were down. They were both now getting 17 shots per game. Seems perfect to me and we had a perfect record. However, last night when they looked at the stat Kobe had like 22 to Pau's 12 or something and of course as the game went on - that number grew for Kobe almost every time down the floor.

I think this loss could be great for us - if the Lakers get the lesson. They seem to understand when they talk to the press, but then seem to forget it during the heat of the game. It is a long way to the playoffs - these losses are crucial to learn what needs to be learned.

4lakers.

C'mon bro. PJ wanted us to lose? Nobody EVER WANTS to lose.

lakersrydeordie
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Phil rarely calls a timeout. To me, not a surprise. We just didn't put them out of their misery when we had them by like 12 points and let them back in the game and then Denver's heads got all swole up!

That was Denver's championship game so let them have it. We have some things we have to correct starting with Pau getting back into the WEIGHT room and or a boxing ring so he can get his "tough-man" on, and Kobe allowing the game to come to him by not forcing the issue. We missed free throws and turned the ball over, just not a crisp game, and Lamar never got his head into the game so it was bound to happen and tired a** Denver was just the place for it all to come to a head.

We'll be aiight. Just ONE loss..Not a travesty or anything.

rawnoyz
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This is an 82 games season. He allowed the new guys and the killer B's get a aquainted with eachother and let them find a way to dig themselves out of the hole. It was a lesson learned. The bench in the 4th quarter was shooting way too quick in the shot clock and failed to feed the ball into Pau who was being guarded by a smaller defender. Being undefeated is the last thing on Phils mind and he will not change up his coaching ways because it is proven to win championships at the end. These guys need to be mentally set to overcome runs made by opponents and last nights game was a perfect time for Phil to measure where theyre at in terms of mental focus and will. I dont feel bad about the loss because now they know how it feels and can start playing with a chip on their shoulder.

lakerfrommass
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rawnoyz wrote:
This is an 82 games season. He allowed the new guys and the killer B's get a aquainted with eachother and let them find a way to dig themselves out of the hole. It was a lesson learned. The bench in the 4th quarter was shooting way too quick in the shot clock and failed to feed the ball into Pau who was being guarded by a smaller defender. Being undefeated is the last thing on Phils mind and he will not change up his coaching ways because it is proven to win championships at the end. These guys need to be mentally set to overcome runs made by opponents and last nights game was a perfect time for Phil to measure where theyre at in terms of mental focus and will. I dont feel bad about the loss because now they know how it feels and can start playing with a chip on their shoulder.

I agree.

LakerFanatik
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I think we should all be used to how PJ coaches. I wasn't surprised the least bit that he didn't call time out when most coaches would call a time out. He loves seeing his players with pressure, cause they have to find a way to win with it. One loss isn't the end of the world. Can't win them all. This will only strengthen a team, because the new guys are getting used to Phil's coaching method.

LALayup
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Hey.. I absolutely agree that Phil really didn't mind losing this game as somewhat of a lesson for the team. It's not as though he sabotaged the game. It was the players who decided that's the way they wanted to play for this game. He just calmly let them go about their business and live with the results. The only thing I wondered about was why he decided to only play Lamar for 25 minutes or whatever it was. And I don't think LO played in the 4th quarter did he? That may have been some weird form of punishment/motivation.. but it also may have been just because Shannon Brown was playing better vs. the smaller lineup of the Nuggets.

At any rate, rest assured that PJ wants the Lakers to be an Unstoppable moving train of amazing basketball when it matters the most. That's so bad.. just had to get that in there on opening day. lol

SAMMi24
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I agree to a certain extent with 4Lakers. I feel like Phil could honestly care less about the regular season records and is definitely not trying to get the best record of all time because it doesnt matter at all. Honestly, I didnt even really mind losing this game and I'm usually crazy about the games. I was waching it last night at a friend's house (only one Laker fan was with me.) and they were all teasing me about why I wasn't screaming and going nuts... (like I did all playoffs last year, lol) and it's simply because I feel like losing this game was good for them. It exposed weaknesses in the Lakers game and also further demonstrated why it is so important that we 1. have a center that plays balls out every night and 2. don't force kobe to go iso every possession and rely on him to bail us out. that has been a bad habit this team has had for YEARS and the vicious cycle has got to end.

Yes guys we lost last night. But that wasn't our finals. That was a meaningless game in November. June is a long ways away fellas.

SAMMi24
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By the way RRTX, I'm feelin the avtar.

LALayup
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SAMMi24 wrote:
By the way RRTX, I'm feelin the avtar.

Thanks Sammi! They look like feisty damn little bees huh?

LAKERBOY55
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The Lakers certainly could have won the game with that extra needed effort in defense and smarter plays. But what from a lot you here have mentioned, Phil exactly knows what he is doing and towards the mid-end of the season it will definitely show. I also agree with some of you in regard to Pau; he needs some of that weight playing as center taken off his shoulders. As I have predicted, Bynum not being on the floor will cause unnecessary wear for those players playing the post and thus opening potential for injury (in this case - Pau). What the Lakers are doing for the mean time while Drew is out is great but it's only a band aid to a wound that will only temporarily serve it's purpose. It is not efficient for Pau to cover for all of Drews expected duties just as much as it is not efficient for Drew to cover for all of Pau's. Pau is playing major minutes in both halves and can be detrimental to the team later down the road. I'm not gonna open this debate about Andrew this, and Bynum that but if Ratliff is not going to provide those extra needed reserve minutes, we need to get a quality, back up center that can put up big minutes. It is very important to keep Pau healthy if a three-peat is to be seen in the Lakers future. Let's show our cards, Sasha is totally out of this rosters loop - we just don't need him. If Dampier is swishing around the league or if Josh Smith becomes available or whoever any of you may think that can fill that roll in place of Bynum, I say send Sasha packing. It prolly help too if they would ship Luke out but for some....

LALayup
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SAMMi24 wrote:
I agree to a certain extent with 4Lakers. I feel like Phil could honestly care less about the regular season records and is definitely not trying to get the best record of all time because it doesnt matter at all. Honestly, I didnt even really mind losing this game and I'm usually crazy about the games. I was waching it last night at a friend's house (only one Laker fan was with me.) and they were all teasing me about why I wasn't screaming and going nuts... (like I did all playoffs last year, lol) and it's simply because I feel like losing this game was good for them. It exposed weaknesses in the Lakers game and also further demonstrated why it is so important that we 1. have a center that plays balls out every night and 2. don't force kobe to go iso every possession and rely on him to bail us out. that has been a bad habit this team has had for YEARS and the vicious cycle has got to end.

Yes guys we lost last night. But that wasn't our finals. That was a meaningless game in November. June is a long ways away fellas.

That's so funny Sammi. Last night after the game I asked my wife.. "Hey, aren't you proud of me that I didn't FREAK OUT during this game that we lost to a somewhat hated rival no less?" I still can't figure out why she hesitated so long before finally saying "yes, I am."

Phil wanted their undivided attention and now he probably has it.

lakerfrommass
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Hey, I am all for a Josh Smith for Sasha trade..... Never happen, but.......

What do you mean put the axe to Walton? Dude has signed an NBA contract. His contract is guaranteed. no one is taking his contract in a trade, it's too large. Walton will never accept a buyout, that's two, and the Lakers will not release Walton, because they'd still have to pay him, three. We are stuck with Walton for the duration of his contract or career, whichever expires first.

LALayup
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LAKERBOY55.. point well taken but considerably overstated, and particularly for this game. The funny thing is that the game last night was the perfect example of a game where Luke is typically very helpful to the team in getting them back into good ball movement, player movement and into their system instead of just going about business in such a haphazard way. And I have a feeling that Phil knew that too.

LAKERBOY55
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lakerfrommass wrote:
Hey, I am all for a Josh Smith for Sasha trade..... Never happen, but.......

What do you mean put the axe to Walton? Dude has signed an NBA contract. His contract is guaranteed. no one is taking his contract in a trade, it's too large. Walton will never accept a buyout, that's two, and the Lakers will not release Walton, because they'd still have to pay him, three. We are stuck with Walton for the duration of his contract or career, whichever expires first.

I suppose that sucks for us huh???

It's like that hooptie in our driveway we just can't get rid of.

Like that lazy recliner ditched on the side of the freeway

Prolly like how Devon George F'd the Mavs future plans with that no trade clause.

Hopefully the Laker F.O. is savvy enough to do something about Luke's contractual binding but I too don't think the Laker F.O. doesn't have a cutthroat, unethical bone in their body.

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!!

LAKERBOY55
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LakerRRTX wrote:
LAKERBOY55.. point well taken but considerably overstated, and particularly for this game. The funny thing is that the game last night was the perfect example of a game where Luke is typically very helpful to the team in getting them back into good ball movement, player movement and into their system instead of just going about business in such a haphazard way. And I have a feeling that Phil knew that too.

RRTX... In regard to Luke, perhaps but if we are going to put Luke in a position to be Phil's "Ron Harper", at least we can see some scoring offense from him.

I don't care if he got back from a hamstring injury either. If he is on the floor he is good to play.

I can appreciate Luke's understanding of the offense but if he's not a threat, it is as good as playing five against four.

In other words, what good is a hand if you aint got no thumbs?

LALayup
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I certainly agree with that part LAKERBOY55. The guy knows basketball.. but he's not much of a physical talent. Like I said, your point was well taken.

Hey.. Ron Harper was a very good player though. I was always amazed in that 99-2000 season how the defense would just snap into place when Harper would come in. That team was strange for how they could lollygag around for most of the game and then suddenly go into lockdown mode where the other team just could not score.. PERIOD. Young Kobe had a lot to do with that too.

GhostNugget
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Bishop-Havoc
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Phil knows what he doin, its how he does things, he doesn't need advise from the sideline. Them cats need to be held accountable so I chooses not to stop momentum. That gives them a chance for them to figure it out on their own and let grown men be grown men, and not bail them out when they slip. The Lakers at times tend to take the foot off the gas peddle. Phil ain't bailin them out with timeout, and in turn throughout the season they start to get the picture.

Hollywood_Randy
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Why would you be screaming at the TV for a timeout? Have you learned nothing in the 9 seasons Phil Jackson has couched the Lakers? Because of Phil, the days of the screaming couch that calls time out s at the first sign of trouble are gone. Lesser couches try to control the situation with a time out rather then let his players figure things out for themselves, OR learn from their mistakes. What is a better parent? The parent that always steps in when their kid has a fight? Or The parent prepares his kid in case of a fight, and then lest him handle it? To think Phil wanted them to loose, is a really ignorant statement. (Mind you, I'm not saying YOU are ignorant, I'm saying the statement is ignorant). What Phil wants is for his to team to learn and get better. Don't misinterpret his ability to see the silver lining in a lose. It's called being positive and finding the lesson to learn. Phil is not about hanging his head. Ignorant as well, is the idea that Kobe is upset that he's not taking the most shots. Completely ridiculous statement. While Kobe is closer to 100% he is still working his game back into shape. He has started to take more shots, but he has to. Fact, Kobe, and Fisher, are not practicing with the team. Phil and the staff have been very conscience of keeping Kobe and Fisher from getting over worked early. So game time is actually practice time for Kobe. Would you rather Kobe not shoot, and try to get his game going at the end of the season? It's not a question of him needing to take the most shots, it's just part of the process of a long season. Furthermore, Pau has looked tired the last two games am sure if Pau was tired, he would....

SAMMi24
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LakerRRTX wrote:
SAMMi24 wrote:
I agree to a certain extent with 4Lakers. I feel like Phil could honestly care less about the regular season records and is definitely not trying to get the best record of all time because it doesnt matter at all. Honestly, I didnt even really mind losing this game and I'm usually crazy about the games. I was waching it last night at a friend's house (only one Laker fan was with me.) and they were all teasing me about why I wasn't screaming and going nuts... (like I did all playoffs last year, lol) and it's simply because I feel like losing this game was good for them. It exposed weaknesses in the Lakers game and also further demonstrated why it is so important that we 1. have a center that plays balls out every night and 2. don't force kobe to go iso every possession and rely on him to bail us out. that has been a bad habit this team has had for YEARS and the vicious cycle has got to end.

Yes guys we lost last night. But that wasn't our finals. That was a meaningless game in November. June is a long ways away fellas.

That's so funny Sammi. Last night after the game I asked my wife.. "Hey, aren't you proud of me that I didn't FREAK OUT during this game that we lost to a somewhat hated rival no less?" I still can't figure out why she hesitated so long before finally saying "yes, I am."

Phil wanted their undivided attention and now he probably has it.

Hahaha. I guess all us Laker fans have one thing in common... We tend to go crazy over our team!

Kobe420
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lakersbeans
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phil just wanted to see if the bench could maintain the lead and he wanted to see how they would react in that situation because the need experience for the playoffs. its ok to risk a regular season game for experience...if this was in the playoffs phil would have put the starters back in a while back.

BaadMaster
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I don't understand why everybody is so obsessed with Luke. Every team has at least one overpaid bench jocky or high draft pick. Pro basketball is not a perfect science. Can you spell CLIPPERS?

If we are able to swap Sasha for a usable player (very likely) then we will have our one overpaid spectator --

BaadMaster
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lakersbeans wrote:
phil just wanted to see if the bench could maintain the lead and he wanted to see how they would react in that situation because the need experience for the playoffs. its ok to risk a regular season game for experience...if this was in the playoffs phil would have put the starters back in a while back.

That is it in a nutshell

BaadMaster
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BTW....PJax does not have to chase the regular season win record. He already owns it!

PurpleKnight
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No need to worry. Phil knows basketball!

cuckooroller
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PJ is not about to change his stripes now, in the waxing moon of his estimable career. He has always coached self-reliance in his teams. He did so with Chicago, and he has done so with Los Angeles. His theory is that the team screws up and plays bad, well, he will just let them wallow around in the crap they themselves laid, and figure a way out of it by themselves. You can't really contest the results that he has obtained throughout his career as far as winning the chip. This is just more of the same, and the theory being that at the end of the season these guys will be self-motivating, self-reliant and confident in their own capacity to win out in the end. This team is still working new players into the rotation. I expect this team to be much more hermetic on defense as the season progresses.

kickslick
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LAKERBOY55 wrote:
LakerRRTX wrote:
LAKERBOY55.. point well taken but considerably overstated, and particularly for this game. The funny thing is that the game last night was the perfect example of a game where Luke is typically very helpful to the team in getting them back into good ball movement, player movement and into their system instead of just going about business in such a haphazard way. And I have a feeling that Phil knew that too.

RRTX... In regard to Luke, perhaps but if we are going to put Luke in a position to be Phil's "Ron Harper", at least we can see some scoring offense from him.

I don't care if he got back from a hamstring injury either. If he is on the floor he is good to play.

I can appreciate Luke's understanding of the offense but if he's not a threat, it is as good as playing five against four.

In other words, what good is a hand if you aint got no thumbs?

Luke is invaluable in practice when he can teach the newer guys about the finer nuances of the offense. I just wish he would stop clogging up a roster spot and become a coach instead. He has the right mentality, is patient and has great BBall IQ.

However, that's all secondary. Your avy is hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2 hot2

maraud
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PJ has two hands full of rings, 3 3peats, won more championships than any coach since the sport was invented. Why would anyone listen to a bunch of fans that have never coached rag on the the greatest coach in the history of the game? This is nonsensical.

fakitzjason
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maraud wrote:
PJ has two hands full of rings, 3 3peats, won more championships than any coach since the sport was invented. Why would anyone listen to a bunch of fans that have never coached rag on the the greatest coach in the history of the game? This is nonsensical.

totally agree with you. lots of people here complain so much and overreact to a loss. just get over it and go on to the next game.

lakerfrommass
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BaadMaster wrote:
lakersbeans wrote:
phil just wanted to see if the bench could maintain the lead and he wanted to see how they would react in that situation because the need experience for the playoffs. its ok to risk a regular season game for experience...if this was in the playoffs phil would have put the starters back in a while back.

That is it in a nutshell

Baad don't encourage him.....

psymd1
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Posts: 331

It is only Nov. Lots of games left to be played, and yes he knows momentum....11 titles under him, Phil knows.

Tailspin
votes: 3
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Posts: 2304
Location: Moreno Valley, CA

Who could question Phil on coaching? Hello, rings anybody???

granpatron24
votes: 5
Big-Time Laker Fan
Posts: 798
Location: Portland
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Phil was trying to see where this 2010-2011 team stands as far as his style of coaching which is not calling timeouts during runs ANYTIME BEFORE DECEMBER!!! I dont know who was on the floor when the run happened but im guessing one of the "killer Bs" was on there.

lakersbeans
votes: 1
Serious Laker Fan
Posts: 257

lips


Options Quick Reply: RE: Phil, do you understand "MOMENTUM"?
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