The Official Political Debate Thread (P. 33)

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Axle
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SPQR wrote:
Finally the Great Man himself, Wayne La Pierre, President of the NRA deigned to give the nation his words of wisdom regarding America's latest mass m*rd*r done with a high capacity assault weapon.

And true to form, this parnoid, freaky imbecile blamed video games, movies, music and yes, even the media for the shooting. What he didn't blame was our right to buy mass destruction weapons, the kinds that are used in all these slaughters.

And he stood firm defending my right, your right, every American's right, man, woman and child to get blown away in an instant at work, at school, in a theater, really anywhere were many people congregate to get mowed down.

Wayne La Pierre, the nut case leader of the NRA came out the other day blaming video games, music and popular culture for this. What a joke. I have never seen anyone get killed by a video game, a movie or a song. But guns seem to always be the one constant in all these incidents. Funny how that works. This is the typical deflection technique they always use. It's everything but the guns.

He also says, "We must have armed guards in every school." Does that mean every grade school? Every high-school? Every college? Every theater? Every work place? Every mall? Every restaurant and fast food store? Every shopping center? Every single place where people gather? And what kind of guns should these guards have? They would certainly need more than say Glock or Sig handgun, right? I mean if someone comes with an AK-47 or Bushmaster, the guards armed with handguns would be tantamount to taking a knife to a gunfight. So I guess all these guards will need to have semi-automatic high capacity assault rifles, right?

How pathetic does it get? There were armed guards at that theater in Colorado. They couldn't stop that massacre. So then what? Why not let all of us carry semi-automatic high capacity rifles with us when we leave the house? Won't that make everyone safer, by NRA and right wing nut standards and "logic"?

Perhaps the most inane of the many things this delusional nut said was that the media was to blame for their lengthy reporting of mass murders! Yep. Now this is an old, time tested method of the right wing when there is a problem whose solutions they don't like: Blame the media for reporting and talking about the problem.

So I guess the reporting of the murders of 20 children and 6 adults should have went something like this: "In Connecticut today, twenty children and six teachers were murdered by a gunman, and now lets have a look at weather and sports." At least that is how the news should work according to twisted moron Pierre. You know, just don't talk about mass murders and they will go away, or stop, or we can pretend they don't really exist.

La Pierre and his ilk are pathetic. They will talk about anything, any fake reason for the killings, blame videos and music, call for armed guards on every street corner. He and his other gun-nut pals will blame any reason and propose any solution, except the real cause of the problem and the only solution to the problem: Mass killing gun ownership by people who don't need to own them. Because there is NO reason for ANYONE to own them.

Or, we could just do what all the other countries did and make it illegal to own hi-capacity assault weapons. Hmmmm.....nah. Not us.

People like La Pierre and those with his blind philosophy are what is keeping these murders going. These people just don't want to support the ONLY way this will end, and so the blood of those kids and adults who died, and next batch, and the next, will be on La Pierre's hands, the NRA's hands, and all of those people, yes those citizens who keep making excuse after excuse why the real solution, the only one that will work, never gets done.

Would gun control stop all gun murders and all mass killings here? No. Not for a long time. Not with all the psycho guns already out there. But it would have an immediate impact. It would cut down the gun violence rate and mass murders to a much lower level. And in time, we would resemble those other countries.

In Australia in 1996, there was a mass gun killing. That countries government did what this government should have done decades ago, ban assault guns and institute tough gun laws. There has not a been a mass gun killing there since.

And if it saves ten more mass murders from happening, or six, or five, or even one, in the next ten years, isn't that worth it?

For most of Americans yes. For others, no, life is cheap, even grade school kids, compared to the "right" to own mass killing machines made only to wipe out as many people as fast as possible.

Mass killing machines they want to own, that they just can't bear the thought of giving up, because of their odd, twisted, paranoid minds and delusions.

La Pierre and others will turn to the second amendment to buttress their positions. But you know what, "A well regulated militia," does not sound like citizens hording guns. That is not a well regulated militia. It is citizens with guns.

Second, when the founding fathers wrote the second amendment, the mass killing machine of the day was a....single shot musket it took two minutes to reload for the second shot. They could never envision the assault rifle of today that could in the hands of five people, wipe out a whole regiment of colonial soldiers with muskets, or a school full of kids or a theater full of people or a college campus.

If there isn't any real change in gun control, including an all out ban on assault weapons, which is the one, real proven solution, there will be more massacres. Many more. And the blood of the next group of children and adults will not only be on the hands of the shooter, but those whose views enable the ownership of these weapons and who fight the easy solution other democratic countries adopted long ago.

In fact, that blood has already been on those hands for a long time. For decades now. Buckets of it. Including the blood and brain matter that poured out those 20 five year old kids last week when their heads were exploded like ripe grapes. Whether they want to hear it or not.

And that's the honest, hard truth about that.

Great post SPQR. I agree on everything you wrote.


SPQR
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Axle,

Thanks for the nice words. And I know as always, you are the right side of history and what ails this country.

Speaking of that, I'm sure you read or saw, because you follow the news, the report the other day that said US health care is TWENTY SEVEN percent more expensive than the next modern, industrialized country. 27 more expensive. Imagine something totally broke, something other countries figured out long ago, and its our health care system.

Its a system that is not only 27 percent more expensive than the next, but one that has tens of millions without health care, which the other countries don't. And every year it just eats up this countries GNP, drains families of money, putting them into bankrupcy. Every year, deductables go up, co-payments go up and more people can't afford it.

And this the medical system the right wing and GOP call, "The best medical system in the world." lol.

Yeah, I guess it is if you are one of those leech insurance CEO's making record profits who hobnob with so many GOP politicians, or stock holders in health insurance companies, like, surprise, surprise, so many congressmen seem to be!

But if you want a health care system that is sane, that actually addresses, um, health care for a countries citizens instead of making people in the business rich, it is the worst possible health care system.

So a couple questions: Why exactly do we have for profit health insurance companies in this country? And why does the right wing keep ignoring reality and keep telling us how our health care system is the best in the world?

Well, actually, I can answer both those questions. In fact, I did already in this post. The problem is, too many Americans are too uneductated or ignorant of facts to do the same. And thats why this travesty keeps on going.


mambamonk87
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^ Definitely wanted to jump into this discussion because it's something that I deal with directly in my work. The overall problem, like Randy alluded to, is capitalism in the form of a for-profit medical system. But I do have to clarify something - what conservatives do to say that we're the "best in the world" is that we have the most research funding devoted to developing high-end treatments. And that's true. They tend to cite cases in which people from all over the world come to us in order to receive certain treatments that aren't available elsewhere. However, I'm not agreeing with them because they are willfully ignoring a SUBSTANTIAL portion of human beings who suffer from curable or preventable diseases in order to continue pretending that we're the "best in the world." That's just BS. To give preferential treatment to a Saudi Arabian prime minister vs. investing that money to save 100+'s of people is an inhumane act of opportunistic capitalism. At least in my opinion. I wish more of the right wingers who keep preaching that we're the "best in the world" realize that by doing so, they're diverting resources from themselves (lower and middle class citizens) towards the rich, powerful, and wealthy upper class. Anyway, I also wanted to chime in on another issue - American's criminal justice system. The whole for-profit attitude has resulted in corporations making money off of institutionalized racism - i.e. keeping low income minority groups in the penal system - and adding more and more discriminatory and oppressive laws that make it harder for working class people from moving up in the world. The way that we criminalize people rather than attack the root causes of these issues just...it's very difficult for me to sit with. America treats drug addiction as a criminal....


SPQR
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Jason, I couldn't agree with what you said about our medical system more, or say it better. Yeah, if you are rich or are...and congressman, with lifetime medical benifits, something they don't want the common man to have, it is the best system in the world. But for those with no insurance, or lousy insurance, or on a low, fixed income, it can literally be a death sentence. And it is the most expensive system in the world. A guy for Time Magazine just wrote a long piece this week, showing how hospitals and insurers just rape people on medical bills. Like a in surgery, charging the patient 300 dollars for the medical gown....the doctor wore!! The same medical gown you can buy for 15 bucks online, lol. And tongue depressers that cost 15 cents in a drug store they charge you a 100 bucks for. And thats not even talking about the expensive things, like the room or the surgery! And thats the problem when you make medical care for profit. Other countries long ago figured out that medical care is for just that, medical care. Not for corporations to get rich off of. Jason, When I talk about uneducted people, I also don't mean just people who have gone to bad schools or were born in bad circumstance. Yes, someone born in very low circumstance doesn't have the access to good education and may because of their environment, not end up attracted to education of any kind. There is also another kind. But when I talk about uneducated people, I really am referring to so many of the middle class. You talk about your desire to educate yourself. That tell me a lot. It tells me you WANT to know more about the world you live in and what is happening in that....


mambamonk87
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Okay, now I see where you're coming from Randy. I am also frustrated with the way the middle class seems to choose to be ignorant and delude themselves from the happenings of the world outside their bubble. I thought it was funny that you used the word 'curious' because I've noticed that the people who seemingly choose to not be curious about the outside world are also very afraid of stepping outside of their comfort zones. I'd add 'fear of the unknown' and 'intolerance to change' to the mix. It's uncomfortable to argue about deeply rooted issues like racism, violence, classism, etc. but it's the only way to progress. Unfortunately, the middle class culture is inundated with consumerist, pop culture-focused drivel that distracts people from exploring their own issues and biases and opening up to new perspectives. It keeps them JUST happy enough to not care about the things that really matter.

Lol that story about the cancer guy is so absurd. Haha it scares me too that he'll be spreading his infectious ignorance on to children. Oh dear lord. I won't even get started on our education system. I live with a middle school teacher and the politicking going on between the unions and governments is ridiculous, especially when it's our children's minds who suffer from the BS. Anyway, that kinda gets me thinking. All those people who want to believe in wacko theories and conspiracies seem to lack the ability to critical analyze information on their own. I have a hope that as information becomes more widely available through the Internet and whatnot, the masses will start to catch on to the games that are being played. I may be idealistic in hoping that we'll see a global Arab Spring, lol, but hey, viva la revolucion.


Axle
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SPQR: Yes it very true that hospitals and doctors are charging ridicules prices for every item used while a person is hospitalized. I did see that report on the national news where these privately owned hospitals and how they are making millions of dollar profits. Yet the Republicans that is what they want. They do not want the federal government to interfere with regulations on these companies that are getting away with over charging and making the whole medical industry sky rocketing. And that is not the only industry that is out of control. The oil industry is another that needs to be looked at as to why they are still taking subsidies from the federal government and they are making billions of dollar profits. They completely have a monopoly on the public and are sticking it in fuel prices to the American drivers in fuel cost. There is no reason for these companies to have us hostage and controlling the economies in the world. We have more oil in this country now then ever and are about to surpass Saudi Arabia in oil production. Yet fuel prices are at an all time high. The thing is that nobody can regulate these companies because the Republicans will not go for it. The presidents hands are tied up with no cooperation from the House of Representatives. Most of this oil that is being pumped out here in this country is being sold to places like China and India where the demand is high. This Keystone pipeline that the Republicans have been crying so much about that it would create jobs and reduce the price of oil in this country is not true. All that Canadian oil will go to the ports at Houston for export. Not....


SPQR
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Axle,

The problem is the GOP congressmen gerrymandered the districts of the House so that they are pretty much assured a return in the mid elections. In fact, in the last election, more democrats got votes for the house than Republicans by a huge margain. But because of how they realigned the districts, it didn't matter.

The House, because it is now held hostage by the radical right is going to stop anything of meaning being done for the common man or the good of the average citizen.

I have never seen this county in such bad shape because of the brutal, extreme agenda these few people who have captured power and now hold up everything, sacrificing the will of the people and good of the country for their crazy beliefs that there should be no government (well, except for insane military spending) at all and this country should just a pure case of survival of the fittest..and richest.


Axle
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Today the Republican House voted down equal pay for women.

Republican party is controlled by the NRA. They care less how many innocent people get killed with these semi automatic rifles with long clips. I guess they consider the death of all those kids as collateral damage to try and support the agenda of the NRA. There is no excuse why a person needs a gun that holds more then five rounds. If they can not defend themselves with a weapon that shoots five rounds, THEN it tells me that person should not have a gun at all because he/she does not know how to use it. You do not need a thirty or a one hundred round clip to kill somebody. When the second amendment was written weapons like what we have now never existed. So what the NRA and all these gun lovers are doing is manipulating the second amendment to get these weapons that were manufactured for soldiers to go to wars and kill many humans.

91% of the people that were polled by CNN said they were for some kind of gun control. Universal background checks on potential buys, and limit the amount of cartridges that can be held on clips.

I hope that on the mid term elections people will remember these kids that were shot like shooting water melons and vote these representatives out of office.


Axle
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Big fight between the old Republicans John McCain vs the Tea Party supporters Cruz, Rand Paul, and Rubio.

Actually the Tea Party supporters have ruined the Republican party. Those three Tea Party candidates are your next presidential candidates. LMAO!


Axle
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So the Republicans and Fox news are really upset because one of Fox anchor men was caught leaking out critical information that could endanger our national security. But they believe that under the first amendment that they should be protected from any prosecution for disclosing information or news. Now I am a bid confused on this issue and maybe somebody can explain it to me better. Which is more important to this country protecting the first amendment which was written many years ago and some believe should be updated or is national security of this country more important to the United States. Republicans want to prosecute somebody in the Obama administration, whether it is Holder or anybody. They are known as the party of nothing, but they sure jump on something like this creating special councils to investigate what actually happen and if that reporters rights were violated and at the same time the justice department has to investigate if this reporter was actually leaking important information to other countries that should have been confidential. Same thing with the IRS investigating certain organizations that are raising millions of dollars in paks for the Republican party, but yet they are wanting to be exempted from paying taxes. Even though I believe that the IRS has always had the right to investigate where there are large amounts of money involved and no taxes are being paid. And the third one is the Benghazi attacks. What difference does it make if the attacks were caused by the film that was out depicting the prophet Mohammed as a womanizer or if the attacks were actual terrorists attacks. The Republicans are trying to blame the president for not getting enough security to the embassy. Yet the Republicans are complaining that this administration....


Axle
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Republicans are upset because our president does not want to send heavy military equipment to the rebels fighting against the Assad regime. McCain even took it on his own to go meet with the rebels and blame the president again.

Obama got our troops out of Iraq on a war that should never have happened. There never was any weapons of mass destruction found. Yet we lost thousands of young men and women in that war.

Then Afghanistan was attacked because of the attack on 09/11 on the twin towers. Another war that the Republicans believe we should keep on fighting after ten years. Obama is bringing that war to a close which really upsets big companies that produce all these war machines and supported by Republicans.

Now Lindsey Graham and John McCain want the U.S to get involved in yet another war to protect Israel. They are nervous that Iran is building an atomic bomb and they want the United States to destroy their nuclear facility and get involved into another costly war. It would not only be against Iran, but Syria, Lebanan and Hezbolla.

Not even to mention North Korea, but these Republicans love to put our kids in the front lines while they make millions just kicking back and watching their companies making milions in war materials.

If you do not believe what I am saying about these Republicans just listen to Fox news. Listen to the former UN ambassador Bolten, Hannity and even the preacher Huckabee. And there are many in that station which makes it so obvious that the Republicans own that station. These people want the United States to be involved in wars all over the world.

We can not be drawn into all these wars. We are not the police of the world.


SPQR
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Axle,

Did you see on the news the other night where FIVE THOUSAND Americans have died from gun violence since the Connecticut shooting? Not a typo, FIVE THOUSAND. That is more than died in 911. Imagine if a terrorist attack here brought those kinds of casulties? Or if we went to war and got those kinds of losses in that amount of time? People would freak out. And guess what, who stopped ALL gun control legislation after the Connecticut shooting, even the simple expedient of universal back round checks favored by 90 percent of the population? Ohhhh guess.......It was the GOP protecting the interests of the multi billion dollar gun industry. Hey, whats lives compared to making money?

Also saw the other day where another member of the nuts GOP, Congressman Trent Franks got back on his wacky support for anti abortion by saying most women who get raped don't get pregnent so even abortion after rape should be illegal!!

Why is it that its always the GOP who just don't care about people lives? Who care about money and their ideology instead of the people? Why is it that the GOP is such a nut case magnet?

Here is another question? Why is it that the same GOP who want so badly to protect a non thinking fetus are so willing to let, grown, adult thinking, feeling humans die from lack of health care or guns? Where is the concern for human life to actual real, functioning human beings?


Dave
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I agree with Randy on this one- we definitely need tighter gun control- make it tougher for mentally-unstable people to get them, and ban the rapid-fire ones.

I also wonder what you guys think about Eric Snowden? Is he a weasel or a hero? The more I hear about this guy fleeing, the more I think he is the former.


IhatetheCeltics
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Dave wrote:
I agree with Randy on this one- we definitely need tighter gun control- make it tougher for mentally-unstable people to get them, and ban the rapid-fire ones.

I also wonder what you guys think about Eric Snowden? Is he a weasel or a hero? The more I hear about this guy fleeing, the more I think he is the former.

I don't think Snowden is a weasel or a hero. What he released was not new information, at least to me. These surveillance programs began under Bush, and I did not expect them to stop when Obama came into office. I mean the government still hasn't closed Guantanamo 4 years later, so why would anyone expect these massive surveillance programs to stop? Some people seem shocked about these programs, but it shouldn't come as a surprise.


Axle
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As long as we have terrorists who are trying to kill us, we need all the surveillance we can get, if not you will have another 9/11 or worse. I completely support it. As to Snowton, he is a traiter to this country.


Dave
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He leaked DETAILED info for instance on how we spied on foreign dignitaries when they visited the USA is certainly nothing positive. What good would come out of that other than making the US look bad?

I messed up his name BTW- it's EDWARD Snowden. Now he is trying to run away to Russia and Ecuador. He's probably enjoying all this attention he's getting- what a d*ckwad.


IhatetheCeltics
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Dave wrote:
He leaked DETAILED info for instance on how we spied on foreign dignitaries when they visited the USA is certainly nothing positive. What good would come out of that other than making the US look bad?

I messed up his name BTW- it's EDWARD Snowden. Now he is trying to run away to Russia and Ecuador. He's probably enjoying all this attention he's getting- what a d*ckwad.

It makes the US look bad, but that's what the system needs every once in a while, checks and balances. It does look bad when the US questions China on cybersecurity, and now it comes out that the U.S. hacked Chinese cell phones. It's a tough situation, but to me, calling for Snowden's arrest is more political than anything. It's why China turned its nose at the U.S.'s request to arrest and extradite him. I mean how do you think he flew to Russia when the US revoked his passport the day before?


IhatetheCeltics
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Dave it's embarrassing when you condemn countries for supposed spying when you are doing the exact thing. That's embarrassing. Countries spy on other countries, you would think people knew that by now. It would have been better if the president had not condemned China for cybersecurity, and now this comes out. It is embarrassing, but they brought it on themselves. So I repeat I don't think Snowden really said anything huge. He revealed spy programs, yeah. But unless you are living under a rock, you would know these programs exist. And anyone who doesn't should pay more attention.


SPQR
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Celtics, You are right. We do the same thing, spying, etc as the other countries. This case reminds me when we were flying the U2 spy plane illegally over the Soviet Union in the 50s. The Russians shot a U2 down over their country. We assumed it was totally destroyed because those planes flew do damn high and our experts told the Prez that no way could it survive in any form after coming down. Then the Soviet ambassador to the US asked if we ever fly illegal spy flights over their soveriegn air space. Our ambassador gave them President Eisenhowers word that we would not violate their airspace. That was just springing the trap. The next week, at the UN, the Soviets showed photos of the downed plane, and surprise, surprise, captured, living, US spy plane pilot Francis Gary Powers!! What a humilition for the US. Not only flying spy planes over another countries soveriegn air space, but then our President lying to their faces because he thought the plane was destroyed along with the pilots body. So that is the game. We spy on them, they spy on us. Just recently we destoryed the Iraq nuclear program for the longest time by putting a virus in their facility. We are in the game just as hard as anyone. Its a joke for anyone to think we are not. But we play this silly game of taking the high ground. Even torture is not beyond us any longer as Bush made it a part of governement policy. Bush and his entire cabinet should have been tried for war crimes under treaties against torture we signed. There are some countries Bush and Chenney won't go to because they are afraid they will end up being held for war crimes-torture- as they should....


Dave
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IHTC, Randy- you both make interesting points. I just don't like what Snowden did considering the implications. Does his leak help freedom of speech? What does it really help? Nothing IMO, but the leaked info can rather helps terrorists further escape detection. Overall I feel pretty lucky to be living in the USA compared to some of the real tyrannical governments out there where they'll just throw in jail w/o trial if you say anything against people in charge.


SPQR
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Dave,

I see no good in what Snowden did. I mean saying we spied on China? Lol. Of course we spy and hack China. Just like they do it to us. I could understand and even approve if somone blew the whistle on our governemnt spying on our own citizens en masse without evidence to initiate that spying. Because there you are fundamentally changing what this country was supposed to be.

There is a radical sect of people who like Snowden, see any and all survelance as tyranny. I don't share that view and its not realistic in this world. But they see it that way.

What is funny is that since we got a democratic president of color, it seems these people are suddenly very much more strident and concerned about any kind of spying than were when a republican, white president was doing it, lol.

But then these people seem more concerned about everything this president does on many fronts, (see the advent of the tea party) as opposed to no concern at all when the previous one inititated and did things that they find so objectionable now under this administration.


Axle
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I can not believe what the Tea Party has done to the Republican party. These ultra conservative group is unbelievable. Listening to Cruz and Rand Paul makes you wonder how these two ever got elected, and both of these two clowns want to be president of the United States.

And how about Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin? Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04

I just can not believe that I was a Republican for so many years. Now that I am a Democrat and if I want to listen to the propaganda put out by this extreme right wing, all I have to do is turn my tv on Fox news. It is actually sickening to listen to karl Rove, Hannity and all those clowns.

But in all honesty I believe that the Republican party was not all that bad like it is now. Since the Tea Party infiltrated the old established republicans, it has almost split the party into two groups. Nothing constructive comes out of the House of Representatives anymore. Hope they all get voted out on the next election so that this country can move ahead.


SPQR
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Axle,

The problem here lies with the GOP gerrymandering of the congressional districts that took place during the Bush administration.

Now instead of a variety of different voters, these super GOP districts are composed of very high margins of GOP voters and right wing conservatives. Because of this, these nutcase Republicans who will stop at nothing to oppose a president who was elected by the people TWICE, won't pay an political price in the elections even though the vast majority of Americans don't agree with what they are doing.

So in essence, these few nutcase politicians have carte blanche to destroy the government, which in reality is their goal anyway. They want to defund and destroy the federal government. This country has been plunged into new depths of discord and helplessness because of these dogmatic freaks. We the people will suffer, they will not. This country has reached a new nadir because of them.


Axle
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SPQR, I really believe this ultra conservatives do not care who gets laid off their jobs. They do not care if our military gets paid. They do not care if people are sick and can not get medical insurance. These representatives want to destroy Obama so bad since he got Obamacare bill through without the help of the republicans. They have voted 42 times to try and repeal the Health Care Act and they have failed. So they do not care if this country goes back into another recession.

I have been trying all day to try and call our representative to let him know how I feel about them acting like children, but I have not been able to get through to Washington. Buck McKean represents our district.

I believe your are right about the GOP gerrymandering of the congressional districts. That is how they are getting into office and their constituents will vote them back in. They are a bunch idiots as far as I am concerned.


IhatetheCeltics
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DJO shouldn't have accepted the camp invite in the first place. Look at the list of PGs. Nash, Blake, Farmar. He isn't better than any of those guys, the odds of him making the roster were a long shot. Unless this was the only offer extended to him, but if I was him, I would have looked elsewhere.


Axle
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SPQR, Did you know that if the Republicans do not want to raise the debt limit, that the President can issue an executive order and raise the debt limit without their vote? I really believe the President will do exactly that to prevent this country from defaulting on its bills and credibility of this country around the world.

I was also wondering if Boehner does not put up the clear bill to fund the Health Care Act being that it is the law, couldn't the President sent Marshals to arrest Boehner for holding the American people hostage on a bill that is already law?

LOL! The President should have those powers IF he does not have them. These clowns are playing games that can really hurt this nation, and actually throw the whole world into a major depression.

The Tea Party Republicans are worse then the Taliban. They are a bunch of anarchist.


Axle
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Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 The Tea Party will be voted out on the next election. The voters are fed up with their ideology of not cooperating with this president. They had made a pledge that they would throw all kinds of road blocks on any bill this president would present to the senate and the house even if it was a good plan that would help the average middle income or poor people in this country.

Now Tea Party supporters Sarah Palin and Michelle Baugman are trying to impeach the president. Man, if I ever saw a couple of loose canons, it would be those two.

Glad the president held his ground and forced the public to put so much pressure on Boehner to force his hand and putting the bill to a vote.

The truth though is that the Republicans are still upset because Obama and the congress passed the Affordable Care Act right under their noses and they have never forgotten it. They are still licking their wounds.

Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and Canter had issued full scale war on the president and were determined to repeal the Affordable Care Act even though it was already law. Confirmed by the Supreme Court that it was legal. They had voted forty one times before and had failed every time to repeal this bill.

Why do people vote these anarchist into office if they are not going to be productive and help our citizens. Are these Tea Party candidates bought by big corporations that do not want to pay their fair share of taxes, and do not want to give employees good health insurances?


IhatetheCeltics
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This healthcare mess is probably going to cost the democrats some seats in next year's election, and most likely the white house in 2016. Obama's main argument for the ACA was that "if you like your plan, you can keep it." He said that over and over and over. That turned out to be a lie. Millions of people are finding that out right now, including my parents. When people really start grasping how expensive this will be for them personally, they will really start screaming. He dropped the ball big time on this man. I mean for my parents, a comparable plan that complies with the ACA would costs several hundred more per month with less benefits. How exactly is that affordable?


Axle
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The only way your parents could lose their insurance was because it did not meet the minimum requirements of The Affordable Health Care Act. These insurances instead of upgrading the insurances to at least comply with the minimum requirement, they dropped the insured people and skipped town. I will admit that Obama Care did get off to a rocky start because of computer problems with the websites, but any time you have something that big there will be problems to iron out. I remember when Bush passed Part D there were many problems, but eventually they got ironed out and we seniors are benefiting from the Part D on Medicare getting prescriptions for a lot less money. The same will happen with the Affordable Care Act and people will find out that in the long run it will help people that have been shined off by insurance companies because they had preexisting ailments, or were high risk to the insurance companies. Now they can not deny anybody insurance at an affordable price. As it was before there are thirty three million people without insurance, and as you know they do get sick. And guess what! who do you think is picking up the bill for these people. We the tax payers and in many cases the hospitals write it off as a loss, making hospitalization more and more expensive with them trying to pick up the losses from these thirty three million that have been uninsured. I do not know the situation with your parents, but they should check by telephone to see how they can get into an Affordable insurance through this Obama Care. The Republicans will go head over heals to try and derail this bill because they got hammered when Ted Cruz and his Tea Party....


SPQR
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Celtics, Sorry to hear about your parents. Here are a few points to consider. As Axle said, your parents insurance did not meet the mininum requirments set by the Affordable Care Act. Which means, it was probably pretty shitty insurance. And health insurance is not something you want to play around with. It is when you're healthy for many people, but in the right circumstance, or perhaps I should say the wrong circumstance, it can cost you your life. If your mother or father had had a catastrophic health emergency with that insurance they had, I wonder how much they would have liked it when burying said family member when they told you it was capped or didn't cover the medical problem. Or how they would feel about it when they had to sell everything they own, go bankrupt, to cover the gaps that low rent insurance didn't cover. I saw were FOX news had three couples on TV wailing about how the ACA messed them up. But an independent consumer advocate then talked to all three couples after the show to see what was up. Here is what he found: The one couple that owned a business, employing I think 40 people said they would have lay people off because they couldn't afford to pay for their insurance. Well, you don't have to get your employees insurance unless you have 50 employees. He found the two other couples could actually get BETTER insurance now, at a cheaper price, with the ACA than they did before it. These people were all obviously lazy, uninformed or just plain shills for FOX. Neither them nor FOX checked the facts of these three cases. It was incumbent of FOX, as a so called news agency to check the facts of their three cases. They did not. This....


LondonLaker
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SPQR wrote:
It was incumbent of FOX, as a so called news agency to check the facts of their three cases. They did not. This of course is nothing new for FOX or their viewers. They are not a news organization, but a propaganda arm of the right

Indeed. If I were to package up dogsh*t and sell it with a label proclaiming it was chocolate, I would be shut down and in all likelihood, imprisoned.

The FCC should hold Fox to the same standards the FDA imposes on food and medication. Falsely labeling their xenophobic propaganda as "news" ought to expose them to criminal penalties for incitement.

These right-wing nutcase groups which have grown by more than 1000% since the election of the first black president are dangerous, and this supposed "news" organization encourages their anarchist agenda daily.

They are breeding another civil war.


Axle
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I agree with London Laker and SPQR that Fox is nothing but a propaganda machine for the right wing. And I also agree with London Laker that it is a breeding station and trying to incite another civil war with their hate a raciest propaganda against this president. I would have to say that Hannity is the worst of the group.


Axle
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Fox news is spreading to other stations. The right wing is so determined to dethrone president Obama that now they have Lou Dobbs who used to be with CNN is now with the Fox business network. But he is nothing but another tool for the right wing propaganda machine. Him and Rush Limbaugh on radio, plus Ann Coulter have saturated the air waves with hate towards the Obama administration. Hannity and Bill O'Reilly have really pushed their agenda to extreme measures. It does not matter what this administration wants to do, the Republican radicals so called (The Tea Party) will reject or not even bring it up to a vote in the House of Representatives. So I do not blame the President for using executive powers to try and get something done in this country. All I say folks is to watch what this congress has accomplished in the last six years. There approval rating is down to 10 percent, but yet they control the house and are threatening the senate. So all I say folks is the only way to get rid of these parasites is by voting them out of power. Do not let the Koch brothers control you with their money that is being thrown at the Republican candidates. Mid term elections are coming up and most Democrats do not take this serious enough and do not vote. That will be the worst thing you can do. Get out and vote, because the Tea Party is working and spending billions of dollars to get their candidates elected. Then they will control both houses and maybe even the presidency. It will be a sad day for middle, and low income people in this country because in their agenda the first thing....


SPQR
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Axle, The mid terms are always dangerous for the party that controls the executive branch, especially when it is the democrats. They seem to suffer from voter apathy. If the Republicans get control of the senate, then the presidency in 2016, boy will the worm turn in a big way. All the things you talk about will be on the table then they will try to make the big changes they have wanted to for years. What has really made things worse was the gerrymandering of congressional districts where now they don't represent the American publics opinion any longer, but instead reflect the opinion of only one section. There are two things that come immediately to mind: National single payer health care and gun control. You often see polls stating that people don't like the Affordable Care Act. One thing these polls also show is that the majority of people don't like it because they didn't think it went far enough. They want a single payer system that so many other countries have, getting rid of the leech insurance companies. Polls also show the vast majority of Americans want tougher gun laws. By a large margin. But these politicians in the gerrymandered districts don't have to bow to the wishes of the majority of the Americans because in their particular gerrymandered districts that elect them, the people have a radical agenda of their own that flies in the face of the what the majority of Americans want. So they can take these unpopular positions and still keep their jobs. There is another branch of government that despite the gridlock in Washington works and makes a huge impact on our society. That is the judicial branch. The Supreme court interprets laws and their constitutionality. These decisions have a huge, long ranging effect on....


Axle
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SPQR,

You are correct on the gerrymandering of districts, and that is what the Republicans are doing. With a hand full of Republican controlled districts they can get their candidates into office.

Also like you mentioned on the 2016 general election. It is so important for the Democrats to retain the presidency because who ever gets in probably will have to appoint judges to the Supreme court. Right now the balance favors the Republicans with a five to four majority and they usually vote in that order.

Good example of that was the Hobby Lobby decision. That decision might help the Democrats thought because it enraged the women in this country.

I wish more of our young LTBers would get involved in reading some of these posts. But most just want to think basketball and not what is actually happening in this country or what could affect their futures.

It seems like I make time for both. LOL


SPQR
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Axle, To be blunt, the American people are stupid. They find news boring. Would rather devote any and all free time to sports, "reality" TV or other things. Often they respond with platitudes about news or politics, such as, "Oh, it too depressing to watch," or "I can't change anything or my vote doesn't matter," or "they are all the same, it makes no difference." But what all that really means is "I am just bored with the reality that effects me. I don't have the ability or the intellect to concentrate or think or decipher events so I stay out of it and stick to my brain candy." Yeah, it's boring, If you are a brain dead dumb sh*t. Remember all those protestors who carried signs saying, Government keep your hands off my medicare? during the Affordable Care battle? They didn't even know medicare is a government run institution!! lol. Did you know if you ask people if they like the Affordable Care Act, the majority say yes. Then you ask them if they like Obama Care, they say no? Yep, same thing, they are too dumb to know it. Did you know that over two thirds of the American People can't even name the three branches of government? Yep, a recent poll showed it. http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/268448/speedreads-nearly-two-third s-of-americans-cant-name-all-three-branches-of-government And these are the people we expect to understand the issues that effect their lives in politics or other areas? How many people were freaked out by Ebola? They thought some world ending plague was coming here. They didn't even know that by it's nature, Ebola cannot spread in a modern industrial country. Only in backward third world nations. And even there, it affects only a small portion of the population. It needs certain requirements to spread, lack of healthcare facilities, lack of modern health care facilities, lack of treatment,....


Axle
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SPQR: Don't even get me started on this because I know exactly what you are talking about. Bill Maher is one of my favorite. He is one smart person. This is how dumb most of the American public are. Just stop and think why the Republicans took over the senate and control the house. If the voters were to stop and think how many jobs this country was losing towards the end of the Bush administration, every damn Republican that was running for office would have gotten defeated. These people have no idea that the House of Representatives had an approval rating of only six percent, yet they manage to get elected. I bet 90% of the voters have never even heard of Grover Norquist and the pledge that he made Republicans elected to the house and senate to reject every piece of legislation Obama would try and pass. Like you posted, most people still think that the unemployment is still way up around 35%, when the unemployment right now is below 6%. Now does Obama get any credit for bringing this country back from the jaws of a depression. Not if you listen to Fox news. Rupert Murdock has made sure that if you want to work for Fox, you have to bash anything that Obama wants to pass. Just listen to those people that work for Fox news New York. O'Rielly, Hannity, are probably the worst, but every single reporter has been indoctrinated to announce nothing but negativity against the president. The House of Representatives has done nothing for this country lead by Boehner. He could have passed a bill on immigration that has been sitting on his desk for almost two years and it would have passed both the house and....


OCLakerfan8
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Axle wrote:

If the Republicans get the white house in 2016 and control the two houses, and if unemployment starts to rise again. The voters have nobody to blame but themselves.

Just watch the jobs start going overseas again for the cheap labor, and the Republicans will get richer because these big corporations will fill up their savings accounts.

I have a feeling the GOP will blame everything on Obama era policies --or lack of policies-- conveniently forgetting they've spent their time during Obama's presidency doing as little as humanly possible when it comes to policy making. Some how that will work for them but when anti-GOP people bring up bush the GOP says we can't blame anything on Bush because Obama was supposed to fix ALL his messes. Love US politics.


Axle
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Some documents are going to be released pertaining to water boarding used by the CIA on prisoners at Guantanamo Bay prison.

Now this was done when the Bush administration was in office. Vice President Chaney was one of the master minds behind the water boarding. Now the Republicans are really worried about this because this could indict Cheney as well as Bush.

But if you listen to the Fox contributors like O'Rielly and others in that Republican controlled station, they are trying to say that it is the left who wanted to use such cruel tactics.

It did carry over when Obama come into office, but he was strictly against it and he stopped it. So now the Republican stations like Fox news is trying to scare the public that if that information is released to the public that many people will die.

My point is why would this be new news. The Taliban have known for years that a couple of the prisoners had given information that lead to the capture of Osama Bin laden.

I believe that what the Republicans are worried about is that this could blow up into something real big and with the 2016 elections coming up, it could cost them the chance of getting the presidency.

If you listen to the Fox reporters and contributors, they will try to point all the fault to the CIA and not the Bush/ Cheney administration.


SPQR
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Axle, Bush and Cheney will already not visit certain countries for fear of being put on trial for torture and war crimes. If this country was functioning properly they and others in that administration would be on trial for these crimes. They tortured people which goes against the Geneva convention accords that we signed, then explain it by saying it was not torture but "enhanced interrogation techniques" lol. So now its a semantics game that excuses our torture. I bet if Bush and Cheney were given these enhanced interrogation techniques they may not view them as so benign, if they even survived them. Did you see the GREAT speech Mass Senator Elizabeth Warren gave the other day about the spending bill up on the floor right now? She told it like it is. And what it is is this: Citibanks lawyers wrote a piece of legislation to neuter Dodd Frank and give huge banks more cart blanch to do as they wish, the very things they did that helped cause the financial melt down a few years ago that destroyed peoples pensions, savings, homes and lives. This legislation was written by Citibank and put into the spending bill, late at night, yeah, late at night, so people would not know, buy their bought off minions in the Senate. So know, in order to keep the government afloat with money to do business and take care of our expenses, the huge banks get a massive power increase to go back to doing what they want. These are the same banks we the tax payers had to bail out from their own mistakes because they were too big to fail and if they had gone under it would have caused a massive depression. So this is the situation we are now in: These banks are so powerful, have....


Axle
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SPQR: Yes that was a very good speech by Elizabeth Warren's searing anti-wall street speech struck a GOP nerve. She got under Lindsey Graham's skin with the speech she gave Friday night. She bashed CitiGroup's deep ties to Washington and a provision in a government spending bill rolling back part of Dodd-Frank.

The Republican controlled house has attached a lot of provisions. One in particular will give the power for big corporations to cut back on pensions. Most of this would affect the Teamsters Union employees that are retired and are already on a fixed income.

The President should veto the bill and If it means a government shut down, so be it. But all those attachments that the Republican want attach are no good favoring big banks, wall street and the billionaires in this country and the hell with the middle class.

I honestly believe this country is in big trouble because if this bill is passed by the house, senate and the president, there is also a provision in there where there is no limit as to how much big corporations and billionaires can contribute towards the election of somebody that will side with everything these people want. In other words they will not be representing all Americans, but only special interests.

I agree with Warren that Citi-Group should be broke up into several smaller banks. They have become too big and too powerful. They have lobbyist's all over Washington trying to get their agenda through the people that we elect to represent all of the people in this country, but instead most of our Representatives are bought out by big business and billionaires.


Skyeword
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mambamonk87 wrote:
Okay, now I see where you're coming from Randy. I am also frustrated with the way the middle class seems to choose to be ignorant and delude themselves from the happenings of the world outside their bubble. I thought it was funny that you used the word 'curious' because I've noticed that the people who seemingly choose to not be curious about the outside world are also very afraid of stepping outside of their comfort zones. I'd add 'fear of the unknown' and 'intolerance to change' to the mix. It's uncomfortable to argue about deeply rooted issues like racism, violence, classism, etc. but it's the only way to progress. Unfortunately, the middle class culture is inundated with consumerist, pop culture-focused drivel that distracts people from exploring their own issues and biases and opening up to new perspectives. It keeps them JUST happy enough to not care about the things that really matter.

My takes on all things politics delves into the systemic aspects of the game and in there, it is obvious that everything is designed. Outcomes are not always as precisely desired by when you define the box, it become increasingly easy to determine what goes in and what goes on in there. In this capacity, all is conspiratorial because teams are strategically contracted to provide pieces that are fitted together elsewhere. I have so much evidence for this it would take a book to write it all down.

Using one example, Communism was originally intended to be foisted on Black Americans though this sub-culture within the larger diaspora o the USA was seen as too reactive for this philosophy to be 'properly tested' in such an emotive culture. Socialism was then evolved into Communism on the Eastern Block and literally studies for about 50-60 years. Who and why this is done is yet another book. Things are not what they seem. To contemplate the mind set of the Middle Class in the USA is a moot point mostly because the very tendency not to question is built right into the 'US Experiment' as it's called. Democracy does not exist btw. Never did and never will. The application of Democracy is economically unfeasible like a Jackson Pollock painting that has no hierarchy. The USA in fact is a Fascism nation which economically refers to collusion between corporations and government. Even the definitions are monitored and adjusted to maintain a perception that is substantially different from what is actually going on.


Skyeword
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It's also critical to note that the US and the USA are by not means the same thing. The USA is a concept and the US is a Corporation. The US Corporation is owned by foreign entities, a joint possession to the best of my knowledge held by a group in Central London and the vatican. Before you react, engage the real history. The Rothschild's funded the French Revolution and paid both sides to fight. Napoleon did not win the war but rich Londeners were told that he did and was on his way. They panicked and sold their wealth as fast as they could the the Rothschilds had many agents buying it all for pennies on the dollars thereby emptying their kiddies. At this stage, they asked the vatican for a loan to carry forward the success of the new London Central Bank that resulted from this deception. The vatican said no and were offered the piece of land on the other side of the Atlantic as collateral which they acepted. Similar to Australia that was formed to be the criminal dumping ground for British criminals, the US Corporation was set up to be a tax slave haven to repay the debt to the vatican which continues to this day. Reserve banks manage the system based of Switzerland (International Bank of Settlements) and most folks think we are a middle class super power when in fact we are a brach of a tri-partite system that manages war interest globally via the vatican. The real USA has reared it's ugly head in recent years that some are calling elistism or corporatism when in fact the 1% is what the USA has been all along.


Skyeword
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Lastly, I am aware this is hard to believe but believe it. The evidence is extensive but you will not find it in history books. HOW is this done comes to mind and why which I am confident I cal also answer but I would rather do so as a reaction to comments rather than trying to tell the whole story as I've come to know it. Know that the people the run the planet see the management as a global government and they are seeking to formalize this at this time. It's not working which is great news but the efforts are in place none the less. Individual, State and Federal sovereignty is rising meteorically, which is a legal status that reclaims Common Law (Law of the Land) instead of Maritime Law (Law of the Sea) that has been foisted upon the USA since 1871. Many will refer to the US Constitution as evidence to the contrary but take note that it is the "US" Constitution and not the USA as well that it's foundational terms are likely what will empower the USA to finally and ultimately become the real United States of America, a Federation of individual States with their own rights and laws and not an Imperial Nation with a Central Government! The word government means mind control ironically and is only meant on paper to be an administrator. The writers of the original Constitution was substantially Masons who knew the scam that was underway and assuredly drafted a document that would protect the people but amazingly, at nearly the same time, in Bavaria, the rise of the Rothschild's had begun and they commenced to silently become members of Masonic lodges across the planet which slowly eroded their benevolence into the....


Skyeword
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And lastly lastly, the Scotland reference is of profound significance. I was invited by an author to spend 9 weeks with him in Scotland in 2012. He is a brilliant man who has decoded the Giza pyramids. All the rest are not even close because their measuring sticks are substantially skewed from the true ancient measures. If anyone has heard of Cymatics and/or the Sonic Sciences, that is the basis of these buildings and a world grid. Having said that, if you think of the planet to be a bell that is silently ringing, there will be places on the bell which are stronger than others, that is, where the vibration is stronger and perhaps comparable to a strong signal on a transistor radio of a particular radio station. In the science known as Geomancy, these points are called nodes and the lines of vibration that interconnect the nodes are called ley lines, the basis of the word 'Holy' as in 'Whole Ley'. Well, the author, originally only interested in Egyptology, resolved the math and geometry of the pyramids and began to notice patterns. The patterns formed circles and were constructed using prime numbers only. He then detected that the inter-relationship of the numbers were meaningful and proceeded to prove that these numbers are also coordinates of the ancient world grid as well found these numbers encoded in Bibliucal gematria which is the practice of using letters to represent numbers and via versa as was the case in the original old testament. What has this got to do with anything I am saying and Scotland? Well keep your hat on.... When you locate the hidden maps included in the pyramids, these point to coordinates in the landscape. The points are generally....


SPQR
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mambamonk87, You are dead on about the right being afraid of change. One of the things that strike me about them is constant state of fear they live in. Fear of people or cultures that are different from them, fear of gay rights, fear of technology and science, extreme fear of real or often imagined threats over seas. Fear of change of any kind, really. I really can't imagine living like that. It must be a terrible way to go through life. It must really warp your view of things. I see where Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders will be running for president.....


Axle
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I also like Bernie Sanders, but I do not believe he could raise enough money to compete.


Skyeword
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There are a handful of benevolent Senators including Sanders and Warren / Salesig who appropriately rail against the overt Fascist, Corporatism. Hillary is their Cheerleader! To that list I would add Dennis Kucinich (Department of Peace guy) and Senators Ron Paul to some extent but what's up with his son? There's also Senator Kaufman who spearheaded the expose of the banksters role in the intentional take-down of the US economy via the sub-prime lending scandal which led to the direct failure of about 1,200-1,300 banks. The same was intended to happen to the commercial real estate industry but $6 Billion in fines I presume derailed that agenda.

Banksters run this planet. The major religions and corporations are banks. The unFederal Reserve system and its kingpin in Basel, Switzerland, called the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), are perched on the tip of the pyramid that they built. This runs deep and is actually ancient history that I assume the benevolent ones themselves are not aware, but hold tight for it's coming out soon in the form of a book and either a movie or documentaries..

The Modern heroes are those that stand firm despite the under the table buyouts. Senator Kaufman worked with another Senator whose name I cannot recall. The hour long documentary called Untouchables will open some eyes about the Sub-Prime Scandal: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

Senator Udau is another one to watch....

Here's a retired Senator Trafficant that spent 7 years in jail for his courage:


SPQR
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The latest from right wing nut case fringe. It is so incredulous a story that it begs disbelief, but it's true. The pentagon is planning military exercises in Texas. You, know, they do that every so often. They are in the war business. So the crazy nut moron right wingers of course latched onto another delusion and thought it was an Obama plan to take over Texas!!! yes, he wants to take it over! And do what with it then??? I presume turn it into an Islamic Califate. This latest nut job fantasy is right on the heels of when Walmart said they were closing some stores and the same brain dead freaks said it was because Obama was going to declare marshal law and turn them into concentration camps. You know, Walmart and Obama in it together to take over the USA. Hmm...lets see how that would work? Oh, i get it. Obama throws us all in Walmart hell and then they get the exclusive franchise on selling us the goods and food we need to survive in their camps! Makes sense now. You know, it is down right scary to think people, thousands of them, believe this stuff. It is horrifying to know these are "citizens" we have to share elections and this country with. It is akin to having a tree sloth as a fellow citizen and being able to vote. Well, hold that thought as it is a insult to tree sloths who I would gladly take as voting citizens over these people. You know what's even crazier, the Governor of Texas, instead of just saying, "Hey people, this is a fantasy," is actually going to call out the Texas national guard to watch the federal troops! So he gives this inane ******** credibility! Well, I guess when you have ignorant,....


OCLakerfan8
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^^^ SMH. Sometimes I think the US needs to divide into three countries. One country for the ultra conservatives, one country for the radical liberals, and one country for the rest of us.


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