The Official Political Debate Thread (P. 32)

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SPQR
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Axle,

Thanks. Its amazing how many average Americans buy into this crap Romney, Ryan, Boehnor and the rest of the GOP sells how all government should do is help the ultra rich and multi billion dollar corporations while at the same time eviscerate any and all functions for average citizens, including Medicare and social security. And its sickening how many citizens don't even understand simple facts that everyone should so they know the difference between truth, lies and propaganda.

But then I just saw a Pew Poll that showed 40% of the American public doesn't even know which party pushes a conservative agenda and which espouses a progressive one.

That level of ignorance is frightening. A fourth grader should already be aware of something that easy and basic.

This country should be renamed The United Stupid of America.


mambamonk87
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I really think that travelling and expanding your horizons/seeing other people's perspectives is vital to developing an understanding of the world we live in. I've been making it a priority to visit as many places as possible. In the past few years, I've been exploring different areas of California (LA, SF, the oft forgotten areas of northern California like Humboldt County), Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, Massachusetts, New York, Mexico, Spain, Morocco, and Canada. Before you guys call me rich and spoiled Smile I've just been CouchSurfing and bus bumming it for most of the way (I took a $1 bus from San Diego to Mexico, no joke - look up Crucero). And if you guys haven't heard of CouchSurfing, google it and check it out - it's a great way to meet very open-minded locals all over the world. Anyway, my travels have really gotten me disillusioned with politics and the institutions/systems we have in place. I met ignorant conservatives (in Idaho, rural parts of Washington, and parts of Los Angeles County) as well as ignorant liberals (I spoke to quite a few Occupy Wall Street protestors in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, and Boston who had no idea what they protesting and did not know what the ultimate goal of the movement was). I talked to international students and travellers and asked for their perspectives on America. So many of them told me the same thing - Americans have their heads up their bums and can only smell the bullsh*t that we're spoonfed - we're only focused on our own problems and don't know what else is going on in the world. I do agree with that last part, but personally, I don't think that's entirely fair - it's not true of JUST America, but plenty of 1st world countries....


mambamonk87
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All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

  • Dalai Lama.

Just wanted to add this quote because it reminded me of something that my roommate was just talking about - it was something that Bill Clinton said that came up on the Daily Show recently.

"The problem with ideology is, if you've got an ideology, you've already got your mind made up. You know all the answers and that makes evidence irrelevant and arguments a waste of time. You tend to govern by assertion and attacks."

It's so difficult to engage in productive political discourse anymore with the bipartisan crap that goes on from both sides.

Anyway, I apologize for my ranting and bickering - having to live in a conservative town results in me bottling up some of these thoughts and I needed to let it out somewhere.


Harry
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With the new GMO fed rat studies released last week, i felt it would only be appropriate to show another situation where Obama blatantly lied. Just in case some of you guys were starting to fall in love with him again since Romney is so da*n incompetent.

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Meet Monsanto’s Number One Lobbyist: Barack Obama

Jon Rappoport

Infowars.com

September 24, 2012

photo

During his 2008 campaign for president, Barack Obama transmitted signals that he understood the GMO issue. Several key anti-GMO activists were impressed. They thought Obama, once in the White House, would listen to their concerns and act on them.

These activists weren’t just reading tea leaves. On the campaign trail, Obama said: “Let folks know when their food is genetically modified, because Americans have a right to know what they’re buying.”

Making the distinction between GMO and non-GMO was certainly an indication that Obama, unlike the FDA and USDA, saw there was an important line to draw in the sand.

Beyond that, Obama was promising a new era of transparency in government. He was adamant in promising that, if elected, his administration wouldn’t do business in “the old way.” He would be “responsive to people’s needs.”

Then came the reality.

After the election, and during Obama’s term as president, people who had been working to label GMO food and warn the public of its huge dangers were shocked to the core. They saw Obama had been pulling a bait and switch.

The new president filled key posts with Monsanto people, in federal agencies that wield tremendous force in food issues, the USDA and the FDA:

At the USDA, as the director of the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, Roger Beachy, former director of the Monsanto Danforth Center.

As deputy commissioner of the FDA, the new food-safety-issues czar, the infamous Michael Taylor, former vice-president for public policy for Monsanto. Taylor had been instrumental in getting approval for Monsanto’s genetically engineered bovine growth hormone.

As commissioner of the USDA, Iowa governor, Tom Vilsack. Vilsack had set up a national group, the Governors’ Biotechnology Partnership, and had been given a Governor of the Year Award by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, whose members include Monsanto.

As the new Agriculture Trade Representative, who would push GMOs for export, Islam Siddiqui, a former Monsanto lobbyist.

As the new counsel for the USDA, Ramona Romero, who had been corporate counsel for another biotech giant, DuPont.

As the new head of the USAID, Rajiv Shah, who had preciously worked in key positions for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, a major funder of GMO agriculture research.

We should also remember that Obama’s secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, once worked for the Rose law firm. That firm was counsel to Monsanto.

Obama nominated Elena Kagan to the US Supreme Court. Kagan, as federal solicitor general, had previously argued for Monsanto in the Monsanto v. Geertson seed case before the Supreme Court.

The deck was stacked. Obama hadn’t simply made honest mistakes. Obama hadn’t just failed to exercise proper oversight in selecting appointees. He wasn’t just experiencing a failure of short-term memory. He was staking out territory on behalf of Monsanto and other GMO corporate giants.

And now let us look at what key Obama appointees have wrought for their true bosses. Let’s see what GMO crops have walked through the open door of the Obama presidency.

Monsanto GMO alfalfa.

Monsanto GMO sugar beets.

Monsanto GMO Bt soybean.

Coming soon: Monsanto’s GMO sweet corn.

Syngenta GMO corn for ethanol.

Syngenta GMO stacked corn.

Pioneer GMO soybean.

Syngenta GMO Bt cotton.

Bayer GMO cotton.

ATryn, an anti-clotting agent from the milk of transgenic goats.

A GMO papaya strain.

And perhaps, soon, genetically engineered salmon and apples.

This is an extraordinary parade. It, in fact, makes Barack Obama the most GMO-dedicated politician in America.

You don’t attain that position through errors or oversights. Obama was, all along, a stealth operative on behalf of Monsanto, biotech, GMOs, and corporate control of the future of agriculture.

From this perspective, Michelle Obama’s campaign for home gardens and clean nutritious food suddenly looks like a diversion, a cover story floated to obscure what her husband has actually been doing.

Nor does it seem coincidental that two of the Obama’s biggest supporters, Bill Gates and George Soros, purchased 900,000 and 500,000 shares of Monsanto, respectively, in 2010.

Because this is an election season, people will say, “But what about Romney? Is he any better?” I see no indication that he is. The point, however, is that we are talking about a sitting president here, a president who presented himself, and was believed by many to be, an extraordinary departure from politics as usual.

Not only was that a wrong assessment, Obama was lying all along. He was, and he still is, Monsanto’s man in Washington.

To those people who fight for GMO labeling, and against the decimation of the food supply and the destruction of human health, but still believe Obama is a beacon in bleak times:

Wake up.


SPQR
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Harry, A nice screed by another right winger. Is this a reason to vote for Romeny? With ALL the issues involved? With the divergent viewpoints of the two candidates and parties? Lol. Not on your life. Its not about falling in love with Obama. Or falling out of love. Then falling in love again. Its about philosophies. About the direction one wants from this country. Do politicians ever lie or not follow through on promises? Show me one who hasn't? Seriously. I remember Al Gore when running for vice prez on Clintons ticket. He stopped in a PA city that was getting hammered by....


Harry
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As much as i dislike Obama, i do not want Cayman Islands tax evading flip flopper Romney to win, so i can agree with you there.

I definitely do remember reading about the PA voter id situation but i guess i just didn't read enough into it. I do hope everyone thats a citizen and would like to vote can do so without issues come November. In Pennsylvania, the $13.50 fee for acquiring an Identification Card will be waived for individuals completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form.

Anyways, the points made in the article i posted are legitimate. the GMO issue is very important to me thats why i posted it. Maybe you just see it as something insignificant that Obama promised and didn't do, but i will be paying more attention to the GMO labeling proposition 37 here in California than i will to the press-titute lame-stream media you consider "credible" and their show-biz elections.

You probably consider people like Dem. Dennis Kucinich and Rep. Ron Paul who believe the private corporation Federal Reserve artificially manipulates interest rates conspiracy theorists too....

Yes i like getting my fix of nut-case Alex Jones because even though he goes off like a nut on various issues, he also is one of the few pointing out corruption on both sides of the left-right political spectrum. I get my daily news from alternative media sites like Drudge and Infowars as well as a few other sites. At least i'm not busy reading about the latest liberal trends or obsessed with the fabled enemy Kony when Ben Bernanke is running our economy down the drain with QE infinity!!! Oh but i'm sure most of the George Soros think tank funded liberal blogs don't feel Bernanke and the FED's continuous money printing are important enough issues.

And for the record yes i do believe the twin towers couldn't have collapsed based on the official story, and so do 3000 architects and engineers who formally stated their reasoning.


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Harry, I consider Ron Paul nuts. A guy who thinks this is the year 1640 not 2012. He thinks this is some agrarian low tech, low population society with none of the problems of the modern world. He has some good ideas about foreign involvement and foreign aid, IE get rid of it, and also about the military, IE cut the spending big time and get out of all the countries we are in. But his ideas about destroying the federal government in today's modern age are childlike, and that's being kind. If Paul had a realistic view of the world and the role of government, along with the things I do like, I would vote for him. As for the twin towers. A friend of mine at work once said what you did. I'll tell you what I told him. You say all these people question how the planes can bring it down. But the problem there is people who are disposed to conspiracies often question prosaic things that happen. Its their mindset. Just like all those nuts who questioned, and still do, the irrefutable evidence of global warming. You will always find strange people who can't accept reality because their mindset does not allow it. I could really get into the topic to its logical conclusion, how that inability to accept one certain reality we all face really shows itself with the majority of humans in a funny and sad way, but its a touchy subject. If you want to discuss that particular thing, PM me and I will. For every one of these experts you cite, you will find ten others who understand fully how the planes brought down the towers. Here is just one link of hundreds where the explanation is given and easily understood. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0917_disasterbuildings .html But leaving the completely understandable and explainable....


Harry
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I could provide responses to everything in that National Geographic article.....starting from the fact that even though the steel structure could be weakened by the fires as low as 400-1000 degrees, where the strength of the steel is halved, the NIST, whom Popular Mechanics cited in their flawed article. The thing is, NIST estimated max temperatures of around 250 degrees C.

National Geographics "debunking" which states burning jet fuel (kerosene) reached 2000 degrees in their experiment is an absolute joke. Jet fuel in open air burns to a max 600 degrees. Maybe Nat Geo should update the Chemistry and physics books.

I'm not going to go back and forth about 9/11 because anyone who asks questions can't believe those silly articles put out by PM and NG with their flawed science.

And Bush/Cheney were told by the FBI prior to the incidents.

The mocking of conspiracy theories in the American press and Western media is based on the simplistic argument that reason is on the side of the government and "official stories" and not on the fringe of society and civilization.


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Harry,

You can't go back and forth on 9/11. Because the facts and common sense won't allow it. All you can say is this: Some people say the planes couldn't bring down the building. And after that all you can say is, I have my conspiracy, don't confuse me with your facts.

I'm sure you could give responses why the planes couldn't bring the buildings down. Just like a realistic engineer could give a response to all the silly reason that the buildings couldn't be brought down by two huge planes loaded with fuel, lol. That did happen you know. Two huge planes, loaded with fuel plowed into those buildings. And they fell. You also have people who can give "evidence" the world is flat. So what?

The FACT is, the planes did hit the buildings. The fires did burn, and they did collapse, FROM THE TOP, where the fires burned. So you can give all the reasons you want, but the facts showed otherwise. And engineers haves stated exactly why those facts occured as they did. So the next time it rains, tell me how dry it is. Cuz thats what your doing.

You know, Harry, once a conspiracy guy said to me, How did those buildings collapsed from the bottom since they were hit on top? I said, Watch the film, duh. They collapsed from the top. And see, Harry, that's how much fantasy you guys have to go into to try push this crap. You have to ignore even the film that shows the collapse. And you know what territory that gets into? Literally suspension of reality.

Or maybe all those films were doctored? Yeah, maybe Bush confiscated them, all of them, from all these news channels and doctored them to make it look like the towers fell from the top, the impact and fire area. Is that what happened Harry? Hey, there's another conspiracy for you. You should bring it up on your websites. Of course that doesn't answer why the LIVE feeds showed the buildings collapse from the top. But maybe Bush has this like sonic ray that emits mind control impulses all over the world and makes us see what he wants. There's another conspiracy for you to use to explain away that problem with the first conspiracy!! What a joke. Put that one up on your sites. Conspiracy people will believe it. I can assure you.

Bush and Cheney were warned that Al Quida were going to launch a terror attack. No evidence at all exists that they were warned an attack would take place on the towers, the pentagon or the White House; the plane brought down in PA. The fact that they ignored Al Quida as a threat was just another example of their incompetence in so many arenas during that eight years. That's why I voted twice against him. He was obvious intellectually unqualified to be Prez. And when you elect someone like that, you get a certain result. Certain damage can occur. And it did.

Yet it is this same exact incompetent administration, that screwed up so many things in eight years, that you claim pulled off this conspiracy, something that you wouldn't believe in a movie, something that in real life could not be performed, FOR NO REASON, with the efficacy of James Bond? That administration, Harry?

I see you had no answer for the treason problem. Or the motive one. Harry, let me clue you in one more time: Once the first plane hit, that was the ball game for war. A plane packed with American citizens was rammed into an American sky scraper packed with American citizens. The second plane didn't have to hit. A plane didn't have to hit the pentagon. A plane didn't have to hit the White House. The towers didn't have to fall. Once that first plane hit the tower, we were at war with them. And all that followed from there, Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest, would have happened if only that one plane hit one tower. The rest of the planes didn't change the facts. Get it Harry? It totally obviates any need to blow the buildings. Can you think clearly enough, for just a minute to understand a simple immutable fact like that and what it means to your conspiracy? Can you somehow get that simple fact digested? Oh, but you can't right? Because it totally destroys your reason for the theory. Sucks don't it when facts destroy a good conspiracy?

But what does it say about you, that facts don't matter to you? What does it say about your mind, your thinking process? What does it say about your obsession with conspiracy?

So in your fantasy, and that's what fact shows it to be, sorry if facts get in your way here, planes hit the towers, and the Bush admin decides to commit treason for NO REASON. And many others down the command and operations line decide to commit treason for no reason. Guess they did it for sh*ts and giggles, right?

And I'm not talking about Aldrich Ames spying for Israel life in prison treason. I'm talking about killing thousand of Americans treason. The kind of treason that gets you strapped in old sparky while someone throws the switch on you.

So in the space of two hours, FOR NO REASON, all these government officials decide to commit treason, including soldiers who will plant the bombs. So these operatives or soldiers also get to the towers in two hours, and plant bombs in front of thousand of people, including firemen and police and nobody sees it? And not only that, they go to the TOP of the towers, lol. Because that's where the collapses began. Where the impact and fire was!!! Gee, what a coincidence!! Wow. The building fell from where the damage was done. But that fact don't mean sh*t right? Because people like you know that that impact and hot fire couldn't bring them down. No chance of a thousand ton planes blasting a building and burning jet fuel bringing down a building? Why on earth would a rational person think that could possibly happen? Like saying a cat could kill a mouse. Just not possible. No facts matter if they interfere with the fantasy, right? So these secret, traitor ninja Bush warriors somehow get to the top where the buildings are all twisted and on fire and you can't get through. Because that's where they collapsed. Hey Harry, you conspiracy guys have some secrete vid of these guys parachuting on top of the building? Was it Tom Cruise or Daniel Craig (as Bond, cuz Bond could pull it off) or Liam Neeson? Because that's the only guys, in a movie, who could pull it off. Have you conspiracy guys investigated where Cruise or Craig or Neeson were that day at that time? I would advise you conspiracy guys to ignore Stallone and Arnold in your hunt. I think they were too old to do it. Stick with Cruise, Craig and Neeson. Cruise and Craig are my top suspects for you to post on your websites and for you guys to investigate. I mean with Mission Impossible and Bond roles, both those guys must have learned something, right?

I would concentrate you and your fellow conpiracy theorist search with Cruise. Since Mission Impossible accurately describes what you believe.

All you have are guys who CLAIM the towers couldn't fall from the planes impact and fire. You disregard all evidence, all the FACTS about lack of motive and timing and treason for no reason, as well as all the perfectly viable, factual explanation that show exactly how the towers went down - from the TOP, you ignore, disregard and dismiss all reality to stay with that silly conspiracy.

You know Harry, when fact, timing, common sense, evidence, motive and everything else militate against a position you hold dear, should you ignore all that or perhaps should you reevaluate your own idea? Hmmm...

A smart man knows that answer. A person who has to live in their fantasy doesn't.

Its fine Harry. You will never change. I know that. I knew that years ago when I noticed your proclivity to embrace such nonsense. Prosaic reality has no bearing with you. It doesn't appeal to you. Reality is boring for you. Its all about the exciting fantasy conspiracies. I know people like you. Met them in real life. And one thing I learned is that they NEVER learn, no matter the facts. I have found that people like you need those conspiracies, its like a virus infecting your mind. There is no cure, no antidote, no amount of reality, evidence or common sense can vaccinate you from the virus. Its permanent and fatal.

There are conspiracies in the world Harry. Big tobacco hid the damage of cigarettes for decades. They had a motive: sell smokes. They had means: hide the test results. The conspiracy to disenfranchise voters by Republicans this year. The motive: Beat Obama and other Dems in 2012. And the means: Pass voter ID laws that targeted Democrats. And there are others. There are many others.

But that poison you believe, it fails EVERY test of logic, means or fact. You love that stuff that's way out there. Fantasy. It's movie stuff. Bad movie stuff.

Fine Harry, Bush blew the towers, the Royal Family killed Di, Bush blew the levees during Katrina (my he was blowing up America left and right, that little pyromaniac) the Apollo astronauts didn't reach the moon, JFK was killed by a cabal (you pick, the mob, CIA, cuban exiles, Lydon Johnson, but not by that nut Oswald who shot at federal judge just shortly before he killed JFK and was seen bringing the gun into the building), and Marylin Monroe was offed by Bobby Kennedy. Jim Morrison, Tupac and Elvis Presley arranged their own fake deaths. Yep.

Quote:

The mocking of conspiracy theories in the American press and Western media is based on the simplistic argument that reason is on the side of the government and "official stories" and not on the fringe of society and civilization.

Uh, no Harry. The mocking or more accurately, use of FACT, common sense, logic and critical thinking to debunk stupid conspiracies that fall apart under logic and scrutiny is simply exposing fantasy and idiocy. Its nothing more than that. Don't flatter your theories or supposed "understanding" or try give such idiocy credence or defense by blaming people for being able to think and understand facts. You can think rationally or you can't. That's all.

By the way, your last statement was very paranoid. That us against them mentality that seems part and parcel of the conspiracy mindset. You know, We know the REAL truth, despite all the FACTS that cover up the truth that nobody sees but us. Talk about fantasy mindset. That's it in a nutshell.


Axle
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I also have traveled around this country of ours since I retired on my coach and have met a lot of people. And I agree that a great percentage of our population have no idea what the difference is between the Republican party of today and the former Republican party and what they stand for now. The same goes for the Democratic party. I used to be a Republican for many years, until that party completely changed and went so far to the right that it was not for me. At one time it was the theory of the Republican party that if the large companies in the United States made money it would trickle down to the working class and created jobs in this country. But now the Republican party has been taken over by the Tea Party who believe that the country should go back to grass roots and eliminate all government assistant programs like Social Security turning it into a 401K plan for retirements, which by the way depend on the stock market. And you know how the stock market works. Some lost half or more of their 401K took a dump a few years back. The trickle down system is working OK, but not trickling down on American jobs. It is trickling on China and India, Philipines etc etc. Companies that were out sourced by Baine corporation where Mitt Romney is and was the CEO. That is how he became a multi millioaire by closing plants in the U.S. and shipping the jobs overseas. And now that same person is trying to run for president. What really up set me was when I was entering a grocery store and these Tea Party people approached me and....


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Well, Today is the big day with so much at stake. No, not the seventh and final game of Lakers-Celtics game. This is something really important. We elect a president and decide what course this country will take, what shape it will become. We may know tonight who is the president, or we may not. It could be that close. But either way, today the die will be cast for the next four years, and in many ways beyond. I post a lot on this thread, because I have strong feelings about this subject. But instead of me giving my thoughts on tonights election, I will borrow from a spoken editorial given by Chris Matthews, who said what I think, expressed my views, much better and more viserally than I ever could. Chris Matthews last night on the stakes and consequences of this election today. On the link is vid of Matthews saying the heartfelt and powerful words if you want to see it. It is a tour de force: Link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/05/1156376/--If-Obama-is-reelect ed-Chris-Matthews-Brings-Me-To-Tears Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 05:45 PM PST. "If Obama is reelected..." Chris Matthews Brings Me To Tears by JoanMarFollow . This was a powerful, emotional, full-throated defense of this President. By the end of it I was in tears and Chris's voice was breaking. This was a thing of beauty. Well done, Mr Matthews. Well done! Transcript: Let me finish tonight with tomorrow’s election. If. Tonight it’s all about this: “If.” If President Obama wins the election, it’s because of some vital actions he’s taken in office. He rescued the American auto industry, one of those decisions that separates the two parties. This is important. Mitt Romney’s opposition to the rescue of Chrysler and General Motors wasn’t some isolated decision. His entire philosophy was against it. A second step Obama took was to give legal relief to young people brought into this great country by....


L4K
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I'm probably not the best person to comment on the election (not being a US citizen and all lol) but I really do hope everyone goes out and votes. Voting is mandatory in Australia but in the US you need to make a concerted effort to have your voice heard and I really hope people make it so. I'm not going to be politically correct and say "vote for who you want, just vote!" because, well, I'm not running for any kind of office. I really, really hope Obama is re-elected. I do not like the idea of a Romney presidency bringing back the social values of the 1850s. Not to mention the pressure he's going to get from the nuts in the Tea Party. Oh, and his VP is extremely far to the right, to say the least. This election matters because whoever wins will be the leader of the most powerful nation in the world and so it affects everyone. I really don't know why the election race is even so close at this point (well, if Nate Silver is correct then Obama has a 92% chance so I like the sounds of that lol) given the constant flip-flopping Romney has done. How any women even support the Republican party at this point is beyond comprehension. Do they not realize they're seen as second-class citizens by these politicians? Mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds? Criminalizing abortion (even in cases of rape and incest)? The men of the GOP are living in a different era and I really hope the GOP loses this election so that they can have a serious discussion about where their party is heading. I know Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would be disgusted with the way their party has turned out. Hell, they may even consider some of their....


Teddy
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My first time voting, I actually enjoyed it. I only voted 15 minutes so it wasn't too bad.


Axle
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I heard a few minutes ago where in Pennsylvania there have been some voting machines that when you press the button to vote for Obama the vote actually has been going to Romney. They showed on the voting machines with the television camera focused on it to show what it was doing, and it sure done it right in front of the camera so the world could see the fraud that the Republicans are trying again. Just like they stole the election in Florida a few years back for Bush.

I never thought I would ever see the Republicans get that low to win an election.


IhatetheCeltics
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Axle wrote:
I heard a few minutes ago where in Pennsylvania there have been some voting machines that when you press the button to vote for Obama the vote actually has been going to Romney. They showed on the voting machines with the television camera focused on it to show what it was doing, and it sure done it right in front of the camera so the world could see the fraud that the Republicans are trying again. Just like they stole the election in Florida a few years back for Bush.

I never thought I would ever see the Republicans get that low to win an election.

Where did you hear that? I want to know more about that.


IhatetheCeltics
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To me the election process needs to be changed. The fact that state governors oversee elections in their state is ridiculous. Elections should be overseen by retired judges, not by governors. Is it a scoincidence that Bush's brother Jeb was Governor of Florida in 2000 when the voting scandal came about? I don't think so.


Teddy
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Wrong thread. my bad.


Axle
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
Axle wrote:
I heard a few minutes ago where in Pennsylvania there have been some voting machines that when you press the button to vote for Obama the vote actually has been going to Romney. They showed on the voting machines with the television camera focused on it to show what it was doing, and it sure done it right in front of the camera so the world could see the fraud that the Republicans are trying again. Just like they stole the election in Florida a few years back for Bush.

I never thought I would ever see the Republicans get that low to win an election.

Where did you hear that? I want to know more about that.

I heard it on CNN reported by Wolfe F.


KOBE=LANOTHINGELSE
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Obama!


L4K
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America made the right choice tonight.


DFishSuperFan
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A lot of work to get done in the United States and the right man has been chosen to lead!


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Kobe=LANOTHINGELSE, Dfish, Jason, Axle: Yes, the right man won. In maybe the most important election in 60 years. In a great day for Americans, Barak Obama won an overwhelming victory to achieve his second term. Obama had to overcome a lot to get to this place. He inherited a nightmare scenario bequeath to him by his Republcan predecessor. A situation so bad, in so many ways, both foreign and domestic no human being could have completely turned it around in four years. And its imprimatur still hangs deep and heavy on this country. He also had to overcome the most determined, vicious campaign of unremitting resistance, obstruction and vituperation in political history. A program enunciated by Republican leader Mitch McConnel on Obama’s FIRST Day in office, to do everything in their power, not to help a desperately troubled country, but to make sure the president had one term, and carried out that policy with unrestrained fervor for every day of Obama’s four year tenure. He had to defeat unrestrained amounts of money, unleashed by the right wing Supreme Court’s ruling that let right wing billionaires like the Koch brothers and GOP operatives like Karl Rove pour unheard of sums against the Obama and the democrats. And despite all these obstacles, Obama , the democrats and the more importantly, the American people triumphed in a crushing victory. This election was more than just Romney vs Obama. It was a referendum on what kind of country we would have. And the American people voted for fairness, inclusion, compassion and hope for a better, more egalitarian America. They rejected the ideology that we are all on our own, that government is not here to serve and help the common man, those who need help the most, but to facilitate and aid only the rich and upper class, the ones who....


Axle
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As always SPQR, you are the best on writing articles. And you are correct, the people have spoken. But some Republicans are still in denial and will try to make it tough for our president to succeed. They are stunned by the defeat after pouring billions of dollars through super packs. Rove alone admitted this morning he had raised over three hundred and fifty million dollars for the Romney fund.

What the Republicans forgot is that this is the computer age, with face book, you tube and twitter. They forgot that people can see right through there agenda. They could see Romney flip flopping and would say anything just to get a win. The right wing media on Fox was so one sided that people just could not believe all the hatred that was being pushed through the air waves. It was a back lash that defeated the Republicans. The secret meetings behind close doors with the millionaires and billionaires where Romney was recorded saying he didn't care for the bottom 47% of the population of this country because they never paid taxes anyways.

So if the Republicans in the house still refuse to cooperate with getting this country back to work, then we as Americans should pay close attention as to where the bottle neck is and voted them out on the mid term elections. Hopefully they will see that America has spoken by giving president Obama a great win in the electoral college vote, and even the popular vote.

So yes I agree with SPQR that this is a great day for the United States of America.


kbp24
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SPQR wrote:
Kobe=LANOTHINGELSE, Dfish, Jason, Axle:

Yes, the right man won. In maybe the most important election in 60 years.

In a great day for Americans, Barak Obama won an overwhelming victory to achieve his second term.

Obama had to overcome a lot to get to this place. He inherited a nightmare scenario bequeath to him by his Republcan predecessor. A situation so bad, in so many ways, both foreign and domestic no human being could have completely turned it around in four years. And its imprimatur still hangs deep and heavy on this country.

He also had to overcome the most determined, vicious campaign of unremitting resistance, obstruction and vituperation in political history. A program enunciated by Republican leader Mitch McConnel on Obama’s FIRST Day in office, to do everything in their power, not to help a desperately troubled country, but to make sure the president had one term, and carried out that policy with unrestrained fervor for every day of Obama’s four year tenure.

He had to defeat unrestrained amounts of money, unleashed by the right wing Supreme Court’s ruling that let right wing billionaires like the Koch brothers and GOP operatives like Karl Rove pour unheard of sums against the Obama and the democrats.

And despite all these obstacles, Obama , the democrats and the more importantly, the American people triumphed in a crushing victory.

This election was more than just Romney vs Obama. It was a referendum on what kind of country we would have. And the American people voted for fairness, inclusion, compassion and hope for a better, more egalitarian America. They rejected the ideology that we are all on our own, that government is not here to serve and help the common man, those who need help the most, but to facilitate and aid only the rich and upper class, the ones who need help not at all.

They rejected an ideology of exclusion and embraced a dream and desire for inclusion.

They did not accept a country that lives on a dog eat dog, curl up and die if you can’t make it philosophy and continued to push for a country where we are our brothers keeper, where those who need a hand can get it when times and circumstances are hard. When as so often happens, we do need help, we do need that hand to overcome an obstacle we can’t solve as individual citizens.

And this election was about even more. It means Obamacare will not be dismantled, as the GOP so desperately wanted. It means the banking reform and regulation, Dodd/Frank, will not be destroyed. Nor the EPA, nor the change in college loans which have helped so many young students. It means we will not turn a blind eye to global climate change that is already causing so much change in the environment and hardship for earths citizens. It means the woman’s equal pay for equal work act, the Ledbedder bill, Obama’s first legislation will not be overturned. It means the Dream Act, which has been such a saving grace to Hispanic families will continue as they become an ever more positive force in this country. It means these things and so many others. It means we will not turn back to a vision of the past, but keep moving forward to a promise of the future.

But it goes further. It means there will be no Republican President to pack the Supreme Court with even more conservatives, putting even the simple right of a woman to control her decisions relating her own body at risk in jeopardy. This fact, that Obama may appoint several more justices on the court, may in the long run, be the single most important victory of this election.

And it was not only an Obama victory. The democrats picked up Senate seats, increasing their lead in that body, instead of losing them. And two of the most vicious, insane, crazy, hateful incumbents, tea party stars Joe Walsh and Allen West were kicked out. For the Tea Party, this must seem like a nightmare beyond belief. Only superseded by Obama’s win.

And there were other great strides taken tonight, most notably three state referendums approving equality in gay marriage. The type of referendum that failed again and again in the past. This was huge step in the right direction in ending the national disgrace of depriving these American citizens their right to marriage. Two states also passed public referendums legalizing personal use of marijuana. It appears, slowly, but surely, the new America is getting tired of the many stupid laws that currently govern this country.

This country is changing. Obama’s huge disparity in winning the woman’s vote, African American vote, the Latino vote and the young vote show this clearly. And these demographics are growing larger every year. And this bodes ill for the GOP. Because they ignore and exclude, exclude gays, women, Latinos, African Americans and the young, all these growing groups, but instead cater to the older, diminishing population that fight so hard to resist change, to dismiss and ignore those different than them, who want so much to return this country to a fantasy of what it was, thirty, forty, fifty years ago, the GOP stands at a cross roads. Either change with this country, become a party that understands that the era of upper class white American men calling all the shots and making all the rules is ending, or die off with them. And that’s a good thing.

So now it will be four more years of Obama. What will the GOP do with it? The American people have spoken. Will McConnel, Boehnor, DeMint and Ryan finally reach across the aisle and work with this president, to achieve compromise that does not mean, Do it our way or the highway, or will the same obstructionism and hate make them put their own interests and the interests of the rich and the desire to return this country to a time and place that is thankfully long past in front of their own countries interests?

Well, I always hope. But after the election, listening to McConnels banal, dismissive comments, which once again sounded like his party won the election, that he will work with the winner, President Obama if Obama does things McConnel’s way, I don’t expect much difference from these fossils determined to guard the privileges of the elite at the expense of the common man and new and changing America.

An election can change a party, the supreme court and what the government can do to help its poor and middle class, but it can’t help intractable old men who don’t understand see that change is coming or see that their ways are already a thing of the past and going into the trash heap of history.

Tonight was a win. One of the biggest turning points in American history. It was a win for the common man and the poor. It was a win for kids who want to go to college. It was a win for women who want control over their own bodies. It was a win for Latinos, African Americans and gays. It was a win for a progressive more inclusive America.

But it was only a win. A battle won in a long war that will go on. A battle was won, but the final victory still is years away. The fight goes on.

Congratulations President Obama on your reelection. And good luck in your second term. There are still so many problems to be solved and so many opponents who will try to stop your every effort. And congratulations to America. You are changing, for the better.

A great post, I agree with just about everything you said. Congratulations President Obama on your re-election


SAMMi24
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I realize, since the Lakers are from california, that the majority of you are going to be liberal and pro-Obama. But I just want to say that I cannot wait to see your opinions in 4 years.

I was a first time voter in this election and even though my candidate lost, I am very very proud to have voted for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.

At the end of the day, I dont really two sh.its who the president is (although I believe Romney would have been the better choice to lead this country away from the Great Depression that we're about to enter) but all I really want is for things to get better. So here's to hoping that Obama does what he says he will.

Go America Very Happy


IhatetheCeltics
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SAMMi24 wrote:
I realize, since the Lakers are from california, that the majority of you are going to be liberal and pro-Obama. But I just want to say that I cannot wait to see your opinions in 4 years.

I was a first time voter in this election and even though my candidate lost, I am very very proud to have voted for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.

At the end of the day, I dont really two sh.its who the president is (although I believe Romney would have been the better choice to lead this country away from the Great Depression that we're about to enter) but all I really want is for things to get better. So here's to hoping that Obama does what he says he will.

Go America Very Happy

What does the lakers being from California have to do with one's political views? Sports don't affect my views. lol. Bottom line is Mitt Romney was one of the weakest candidates the Republican party has ever put up. So weak that top republican leaders and voters in the caucauses didn't even want him. He really struggled in the caucauses and the primary. Because his record as governor casts him as a liberal, yet he was trying to show people that he was different. And he never accomplished that. The Republican party is out of touch with this new demographic of voters. They are going to have to change their stances on issues such as immigration. Obama easily won the women's vote, young college students and professionals, African American vote, Hispanic vote, Asian vote, and had lots of support from gays and lesbians. The primary group the Republicans appeal to are older white christian church going folks. Not saying all republican supporters are like that, but those are the people that the Republican party really pander to. That's going to have to change if they want to win the White House again.


SAMMi24
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IhatetheCeltics wrote:
SAMMi24 wrote:
I realize, since the Lakers are from california, that the majority of you are going to be liberal and pro-Obama. But I just want to say that I cannot wait to see your opinions in 4 years.

I was a first time voter in this election and even though my candidate lost, I am very very proud to have voted for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.

At the end of the day, I dont really two sh.its who the president is (although I believe Romney would have been the better choice to lead this country away from the Great Depression that we're about to enter) but all I really want is for things to get better. So here's to hoping that Obama does what he says he will.

Go America Very Happy

What does the lakers being from California have to do with one's political views? Sports don't affect my views. lol. Bottom line is Mitt Romney was one of the weakest candidates the Republican party has ever put up. So weak that top republican leaders and voters in the caucauses didn't even want him. He really struggled in the caucauses and the primary. Because his record as governor casts him as a liberal, yet he was trying to show people that he was different. And he never accomplished that. The Republican party is out of touch with this new demographic of voters. They are going to have to change their stances on issues such as immigration. Obama easily won the women's vote, young college students and professionals, African American vote, Hispanic vote, Asian vote, and had lots of support from gays and lesbians. The primary group the Republicans appeal to are older white christian church going folks. Not saying all republican supporters are like that, but those are the people that the Republican party really pander to. That's going to have to change if they want to win the White House again.

because being from california the majority of you are going to be liberal. california is an extremely liberal state, thats all i was saying.

the problem with mitt and the republican party is that they felt he was a rino (republican in name only) so a lot of republicans didn't vote.

like i said, i could care less if a dem or a republican is the president. i just want somebody who's going to actually lead our country. we'll see what happens.


Axle
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Sammi: What a lot of you do not understand is that what really got this country into trouble is the out sourcing of companies to other countries for the cheap labor. And guess who was in the forefront of out sourcing jobs out of this country? You got it! Mr Mitt Romney was and is the CEO of Baines who specialized on closing big plants in this country and sending them to China and India. So many companies left the United States and eventually caught up with us. All of a sudden towards the end of the Bush era this country found itself losing almost a million jobs per month to other countries. All of our manufacturing power had flown to third world countries. You could walk into any retailing store and look at the tag to see where that product was made and it sure was not the (made in the usa) anymore. But actually I can not blame all this on the Republicans alone, it started two decades back. But the Republican party are more responsible on out sourcing then the Democrats because they have been bought by big corporations like big oil etc etc. When Bush left office, this country was headed straight to a depression that would have made the last depression look small in comparison. If Obama had not taken the emergency steps to get the country turned around by pouring billions of tax dollars into recovery acts, to create jobs and put people back to work. This country would have gone over the cliff. I am not a young man and I was a Republican for over fifty years. But there policies on how to run a country is not for the twenty first century.....


gemfow
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SPQR is actually from Pennsylvania, not CA. Me being from California has nothing to do with me voting for the current president either. I will listen to what a candidate has to say because that other candidate could be worth something. Well, Romney was full of vague plans, his five point plan never seemd to have specifics. I can't even remember the five points, I just remember close loop holes, energy independence and whatever else, but he never mentioned how he was going to do that. Just the lies that were spread, sheesh. The good lie with Ryan looking at the camera and saying the president had something to do with the closure of a plant, but fact checking showed that the plant was scheduled to close even before he took office. Romney kept talking about crossing the lines to work together but the Republicans wanted to make sure the president was a one term president and were going to try and wipeout anything he has accomplished. If you have the time read a book called "Do not ask what good we do" The Republican party is vicious and from the get go they wanted to keep the president as a one termer and make him look like a failure. They said he blamed Bush for the ecomonomy however no Bush was ever present at a Republican rally or their convention, sheesh, not even an ice cream social. I'm thankful that Romney didn't win, so luckily a woman like yourself gets to have freedom of choice. Also what bridges the economic social classes is education and pell grants are a needed thing for students who can't necessarily afford to get that college education that Mitt didn't have to worry about. The world is evolving while the....


SAMMi24
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Lol I'm so sick of the "Romney hates women" crap. Give me a break. Obama's entire campaign was essentially portraying him as somebody who hates women and poor people. So stupid. The sad thing is that such a large chunk of America is small minded and actually bought into it.

and I dont care where SPQR is from, I dont even read any of his posts.


Axle
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Sammi, unless you are a millionaire then I do not blame you for supporting a person like Romney. Didn't you catch the behind close door meeting Romney was having with his billionaire friends where he was recorded to say he cared less about the 47% of the population in the United States? That alone would be enough to suspect this man as to being for the rich only and the hell with the rest. Not sure in what income level you are, but lets say you are a 90K a year income earner and you are probably paying more....


gemfow
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SAMMi24 wrote:
Lol I'm so sick of the "Romney hates women" crap. Give me a break. Obama's entire campaign was essentially portraying him as somebody who hates women and poor people. So stupid. The sad thing is that such a large chunk of America is small minded and actually bought into it.

and I dont care where SPQR is from, I dont even read any of his posts.

Where in my post did I say Romney hates women? Lol.

My bad, I didn't know you and SPQR had a turbulent history.

I said luckily a woman like yourself gets to have freedom of choice. I have some women friends who were victims of rape. One was pregnant due to it. For hr to have a child from a sickening ordeal like that is crazy to me. I know there are women out there who use abortions as a form of birth control, but it doesn't mean the whole woman populace should suffer for it.

Your shining warrior Mitt made a pretty bad mistake, dude is more of a moderate but he started hanging out with the hardcore right wingers so he could have the backing to get into office and the problem with doing a deal with the devil is you have to pay back with interest. Going from extreme right wing to moderate had him looking like Brett Favre with the flip-flopping.

You know how they ruled that anonymous and limitless monetary donations were allowable? Well, best believe Mitt was going to have to pay those generous campaign donors back somehow, umm, let's see maybe place someone ahead of the department of energy or wherever. The rich usually are still about getting richer, NOT saying I love America so much that I just want to do what I can. I'm not saying all are like that but when you have his millionaire friends just writing big checks, then those millionaires are looking to have their backs scratched in return.

Like Axle mentioned, the guy was behind closed doors and let his hair down. He says 47% are looking for a handout but his boy Ryan was part of that 47% too, lol.


SPQR
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Sammi, You may be sick of Romney hates women "crap" and you say you don't care if a Republican or Democrat is president, but maybe you should. Did you know that the Republican platform adopted at their convention says no abortion under any circumstance? Did you know that that the VP you voted for, Paul Ryan co-sponserd a bill that excluded a womans right to abortion under any circumstance? That would include rape or incest? That also includes the life and health of a woman. In other words, if the doctor told you taking a baby to term could kill you, you would still have to do it. You like that? You like men telling you you have to do that? Did you know that Romney would have continued to pack the supreme court with justices that would over turn Roe V Wade and end your right to make your decisions, as a woman, concerning your own body. That it would make it a crime for you to make those decisions? Did you know it? How do you, as a woman feel about that? Would you like to take a rape or incest baby to term? Do you like having men tell you what you can do with your body? I can tell you Sammi, If I were a woman, I would NEVER vote for a party that thought it could tell me what to do with my health and body. I guess you're for it? How you would like a man like me telling you what you can do with your body, just because im a man, and well, because lets face it, you're only a woman? Thats what you voted for with your boys Mitt and Paul. Did you know that? Do you know that the Ledbedder act, which got rid of the statute of limitation....


shmeeze
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We need more choices for leaders, period. Both Romney and Obama are not the best man for the job. Its truly a shame.


SPQR
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Shmeeze,

I agree with you we need viable real third and fourth parties. The problem is, the rules are prohibative and neither of the two parties will change that. The other thing is, people always say they want new parties, but rarely vote for them. They cling to the same old same old. I mean third party candidates debate on net streams instead of before the country with the main candidates. Not much hope in that situation.

Ive voted for independent candidates for Prez twice in my life. I honestly don't know a single other person who has.

They can't just run for Prez, but have to start and make parties that run good, viable candidates for congress too.

It would take a very charismatic, very sharp, very smart man to start a new party and make it effective. A latter day Huey Long. And I don't mean in his political leanings, but I mean his brain power and ability and drive.


Axle
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A vote for a third party is a wasted vote in my opinion. We have two good parties, the only problem is that the two parties have become polarized in the last four years. Whether you want to believe it or not there is still a lot of racism in this country. When Obama got elected there were many who were shocked to see a black man get the highest office in the land. Radio announcers like Rush Lingbach were on the radio constantly bashing this man. The Tea Party all of sudden shows up supported by the ultra....


shmeeze
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http://www.politico.com//story/2012/11/ ... 84428.html


Harry
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shmeeze ^^^^

this is absolutely outrageous. Simply put, economic terrorism. For the sake of the people i wish i could just tear Geithner up into pieces. This is the scum Obama surrounded himself with from the start. Might as well give the executive the power to do as they please, who needs that useless group called congress anyways?

For those of you that care about our constitution, article 1 clearly gives CONGRESS the power of borrowing money on the credit of the US, not the president and his goons.

It is because of people like Geithner and Bernanke that our currency is going down the drain. Yes, Bush appointed Bernanke, but Obama had the chance to shake things up, and it was clear from the start thats not what he came to do.

Just more evidence to support the idea that BANKERS run things not a puppet called the president


SPQR
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Republicans are having a hard time with the election results. Now come the wacko conspiracy theories, blaming a helpless little, now defunct agency called ACORN, even though it was the GOP that tried to buy the election and keep voters from casting ballots with voter suppression laws in so many states. Now that their attempt at stealing the election failed, it’s time to return to Fantasy Island for the GOP. A place they know so intimately and return visit so often. Also, now some GOP morons, unhappy that the results didn't go their way, in our democracy, want to secede from the union, lol. Funny how that never came up till a black man became Prez. To be honest, Im all for it. Let all those caveman states who want out, get the hell out of the union, live in their caves, start up their Christian Theocracies where prayer is the answer to al all problems (and tax cuts and subsidies for the rich), and let the progressive states move into the future without all the whining we get from them. But if they were to leave, they will have to figure out where to get all the federal help to prop up their sorry a** backwards states, since it is exactly those states who take by far the lions share of federal monies to keep their red neck, incompetent, uneducated, regessive moronic societies afloat since they can't do anything correctly themselves. Please, do secede!! Please do us a favor! Then we can save so much money or put it to good use instead of keeping your states in semi working order. And when you leave, don't let the rusted door of your chevy hit you in hole in your jeans that is not covering your *ss on the way back....


Harry
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Speaking of Jefferson, he was one of the greatest minds of his time.

Here is a couple more of his famous quotes that people should pay attention to:

“I, however, place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared.”

"I believe banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies"

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”


SPQR
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Harry,

Jefferson like many of the founding fathers was a smart man. But like them, he lived in a time where he could not foresee modern society and it's problems. Nor could the constitution he and the others of antiquity wrote. The world and America we live in is so far removed from his world and America as humans are to dogs. My point being, both the founding fathers and the constitution are great, wise works, but not infallible nor always current to 2012 society.

That being said, I certainly agree on the whole with those Jefferson quotes you put up.

I would also say the democrats and Obama certainly adhere to those particular quotes you used, both in practice and wisely and compassionately for citizens, more than the vicious, elitist alternatives offered by the GOP. This makes me very glad the election, between the sides we had to choose from, went as it did.


Axle
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The Republicans are still shell shocked as to how the voters voted this general election. They were so sure that the billions of dollars they were getting from super packs was going to carry them to a win of the presidency. Rove and his Fox cronies could not believe what was happening. In this modern age of computers, face book, twitter and so forth, the people can not be fooled anymore. They could see that the Republicans were protecting only the millionaires and billionaires that were channeling money to them in the millions to protect all the illegal moves they have made through out the years. Now they are so determined to regain what they lost, but again the middle class are watching what the next move is by the determined republicans to get back in power. One of the tactics they have is to go after the unions because they believe they were one of the groups that helped reelect Obama. So what they are doing is painting a pretty picture to the working class now that there is some high unemployment in some parts of the country, that they should endorse the republican move to make states with right to work laws. Most people do not know exactly what that means. They believe that it might be a good thing if there are lots of jobs. What the republican party does not tell you that Unions protect the employees from big corporation harassment on the job by their supervisors. They don't tell you that Union get you benifits like hospitalization, dental insurances, better pay for your labor. Right to work states most of the jobs they create are minimum wage jobs with no benefits. That is the republican way of siding....


SPQR
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I have posted the following words on the thread about the mass shooting today in Connecticut. But since it has a very tangible politican component, I am also posting it on this permanent political thread. While the nation is shocked about the henious mass shooting today, and people will examine the killer and his motives, there is also a wider reaching political component to the events. And that component is the right wings insistance on enabling the gun culture and mass killing weapons to be available to people. You will see the NRA and right wing politicians now do the same old song and dance, offering condolences and prayer to the families of the dead, and for the dead, including the 20 children. You will also then hear the same old lie and canard espoused by them that guns don't kill people, that people do. What they so conveniently always forget it's people who use these mass killing guns who perpetrate the slaughters. Without the guns, they can't commit a monstrousity like occured today. For the right wing, no matter the cost of human lives, its always just condolences and prayer. Well, prayer is so easy to give but sadly does nothing to fix the problem or prevent a single death. And its not just guns. They offer prayer for every problem that costs thousands of lives. They offer prayer to those who can't afford health insurance. To the thousands who will die this year because they don't have health insurance. Instead of welcoming a single payer health care system that every other industialized country has long since adopted, to ensure that nobody dies of lack of health care, they protect the multi billion dollar insurance companies who create this mess, and offer prayer. More people will die this year from lack of health insurance than died....


Axle
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Very true what SPQR just posted about the right wing republicans. Today was a good example of Huckabee already explaining that it was not the gun, that it was the individual who if he didn't have a gun, he still would have planted a bomb to kill them kids.

I used to belong to the NRA, but I dropped them off when they accept people buying clips that hold more then five rounds. I was raised on a large farm in my young age and we learned how to hunt with a single shot twenty two rifle. I never could figure out why a person would need to buy a one hundred round clip. In my opinion those are not for hunting game, they are for killing large groups of people.

All these shootings of people used machine gun type weapons with long clips holding many rounds. Obama should close the loop holes that are being used to purchase this kind of clips. The right wing is going to fight it protecting the NRA. But something has to be done.


SPQR
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Axle,

I'm sure good old Mike Huckabee has plenty of prayer to offer. He is an expert at it. A minister. He's a very religious, caring man you know. He is the first one to tell anyone those things. He says it a lot.

He especially cares for corporations and his rich friends who own them. And he doesn't want national health care because it would put some of his buds out of business. And he cares about the NRA too, and also us little folk. Because he believes in the inalienable right of Americans to be able to slaughter one another with mass killing weapons that were designed for one thing only, to kill as many people as fast as possibe. Yep, even grade school children.

I would ask anyone who has had enough of the war going on in this country that is taking so many lives, to take just a few moments and call their congressman and senator and say you have seen enough killing. That the 18 children and 6 adults yesterday filled the limit.

Tell them you want real gun control.


Axle
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I just can not believe what these republicans want. I turned on my television this morning and it just so happened that it was on the Fox station. They had as a guest there congressman Louie Gohmert of Texas. They asked him what his solution was to solving the m*rd*r of so many innocent people including the kids in conn. His suggestion was that every American should be allowed to carry a gun strapped around his waist. He actually believes that if the teacher had a gun, she could have had a gun battle with the person attacking them.

Now what century does this congressman believe we are in? The old wild wild west. Geez!


SPQR
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Axle, These people are raving maniacs. Another of these nut jobs was on Pierce Morgan and said the same thing. Morgan just went ballistic on him, yelling that he is tired of hearing how the solution to our gun problem is....more guns! I mean they live in this Alice in Wonderland world where up is down, right is wrong and black is white. He also rightfully asked the nut that since we have more guns in this country than any other, and more people carry guns than any other, by far, why hasn't that stopped the gun violence? And why instead, with this profusion of guns, do we keep having these massacres and other "little" gun deaths every day if guns are the solution? Some good questions with very plain answers. Thats how whacked out these nut jobs are. Instead of the simple, obvious solution so many other countries have instituted, their answer is for more people to carry guns, lol. Here's an idea. Lets let grade school kids pack. That way, if someone ever tries to shoot up a grade school again, the kids can open fire en masse. Maybe Ill buy an AK-47 and start taking it shopping with me. I mean, you never know when I might need it if someone else with an AK-47 comes a shooting. Remember Axle, these are the same anti-science morons who still don't believe in climate change or how man is responsible for it, despite all the empirical evidence that is right in our faces from hundreds of sources, both scientific and observable with the naked eye. And boy, when that baby hits the world but good, like it will in the next hundred years, then everyone may actually need a gun to try survive. Im sure they would like that. But like with so many other things,....


SPQR
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Finally the Great Man himself, Wayne La Pierre, President of the NRA deigned to give the nation his words of wisdom regarding America's latest mass m*rd*r done with a high capacity assault weapon. And true to form, this parnoid, freaky imbecile blamed video games, movies, music and yes, even the media for the shooting. What he didn't blame was our right to buy mass destruction weapons, the kinds that are used in all these slaughters. And he stood firm defending my right, your right, every American's right, man, woman and child to get blown away in an instant at work, at school, in a theater, really anywhere were many people congregate to get mowed down. Wayne La Pierre, the nut case leader of the NRA came out the other day blaming video games, music and popular culture for this. What a joke. I have never seen anyone get killed by a video game, a movie or a song. But guns seem to always be the one constant in all these incidents. Funny how that works. This is the typical deflection technique they always use. It's everything but the guns. He also says, "We must have armed guards in every school." Does that mean every grade school? Every high-school? Every college? Every theater? Every work place? Every mall? Every restaurant and fast food store? Every shopping center? Every single place where people gather? And what kind of guns should these guards have? They would certainly need more than say Glock or Sig handgun, right? I mean if someone comes with an AK-47 or Bushmaster, the guards armed with handguns would be tantamount to taking a knife to a gunfight. So I guess all these guards will need to have semi-automatic high capacity assault rifles, right? How pathetic does it get? There were armed guards at that....


shmeeze
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http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/a ... ntPage=all

intresting read.


Axle
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So the Mitt Romney and the Republicans during the election were crying that Obama was restricting the oil companies from drilling. They kept blaming Obama for the high oil prices at the stations. Blaming Obama for not signing the Keystone pipe line that was suppose to bring oil to the U.S. when in fact that pipeline was only going to cross our country, but not a drop of oil would be for the United States. It is designed to go to a port and I believe it was at Houston to ship over seas.

The fact and the truth is that the Obama administration did allow oil companies to drill more in the gulf of mexico. We now have a surplus of oil and the oil companies instead of lowering prices in this country have spiked the prices in the last three weeks by over fifty cents per gallon to an all time high.

What these oil companies are doing is selling their oil to China and India and all over the world. They are making billions of dollars and they still want for the federal government to subsidies them.

So what the Republicans were saying was a bunch of lies about the Keystone pipeline.

The oil companies make all kinds of excuses for spiking the fuels. They claim that they had a fire somewhere in some refinery, that they have to change from summer blend to winter or visa versa, that they do not have enough refineries when in fact they have closed several refineries on purpose.

I am hoping that the Obama administration cuts down the loop holes on these companies. Restrict them from selling most of their oil over seas and creating shortages in this country so that they can spike the prices up. I hope the our politicians can see that these spikes on oil is what is keeping this country from a compete recovery from a long recession. If our government can force these oil companies to keep oil prices down our economy will take off.

I realize that this is capitalism at its best, but you also have to put the country ahead of anything, call it national interest.


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