The Official Political Debate Thread (P. 31)

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SPQR
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I agree with congo, we need to be able to engage in this type of discourse with an open mind and less volatile tempers. Rigid thinking and hostility is not the formula for progressive thinking.

Jason,

Thats fine. Im all for it. But one thing I do know, fantasy never solved any problem. Nor someone spreading poison that only Christians are good or incapable of killing people with guns or if everyone believed as they do, the killings would stop. Or nonsense that if everyone believed in god, no killings would occur or they would go down. And we can pray till we turn blue in the face, but that won't stop one killing. That stuff is nonesense.

Not only is that pie in the sky fantasy, but it overlooks the very obvious truth that we will all never believe the same thing. So to arrogantly pontificate: "Ohh, if you just believed in my god and my things, nobody would get killed" does not apply in the real world. Because that won't happen. Its not a real world solution to this problem. Its a fantasy solution. So why even bring it up? Lets keep this real world with real world solutions.

The last overlooked thing is this, we are one of the most Christian countries on the planet. And have the highest gun violence rate, lol. Yeah, that fantasy solution works alright.

If Congo wants to talk about this, thats great. But fantasy doesn't solve anything and Im not going to treat it like its even some reasonable option. I will respect any possible real solution to a problem, but im not gonna lie and pretend even for a moment to respect someones personal fantasy solution. You have to draw a line between fantasy and reality when you deal with real subjects, their causes and possible solutions.


shmeeze
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Hey SPQR, where did you get the 30 thousand figure from?? 30 thousand violent gun deaths a year??


shmeeze
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Btw SPQR, please refrain from attacking religion, its just as bad as racism and homophobia ect. ect. I know you're better than that.


SPQR
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Shmeeze,

Im not attacking religiion. Where did I do that? I said that Congos god solution to the gun problem was fantasy. And it is.

I also don't appreciate him telling lies like "If you (or everyone) believed in god, there would be no problem."

Thats utter bullsh*t and Im going to say it. The vast majority of this country believes in god and we have a gun problem and gun death problem. That is also an insult to those millions of very good people who don't believe in a god. It impugns them as something less moral. Thats bullsh*t too and Im saying it flat out.

Funny, Shmeeze, why didn't you take Congo to task for his direct implication that if you don't believe in god somehow you are less moral? That only those who don't believe in god kill? Why didn't you have a problem with that?

So you have a problem with homophobia, racism and any anti religious views, but you don't seem to have a problem when someone attacks non religious people? Is that it?

Where was your message to Congo not to attack non religious people? Where was it Shmeeze? Or do you take that same religious high-handed arrogant, superior approach as Congo did to your moral inferiors? Is that why what he did was OK with you?

Aren't you better than that?

No, I'm not going to sit here and read that kind of insult to millions of good, non religious people, nor read some fanstasy solution to the gun problem and keep quiet. By now, you should know me better than that.

And before you lecture me, lets see you lecture Congo on the insult he just threw out that those who don't believe in some god as he does are somehow morally inferior.

I will wait to see you do it right here.


shmeeze
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Maybe I should answer you in tongues then we will be on the same level?

but when you start throwing religous mythology

SPQR, these were two of the thing I thought another poster would find offensive. I did not side with Congo because he brought up religion, I'm speaking out against you who taunt and tease people for their beliefs. The first quote there would be akin to asking someone of African Americn descent "Should I speak in ebonics?? so you can understand??" Its offensive, maybe not to you, but I bet some might find it offensive. I kindly ask you no to do it.


SPQR
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I don't appreciate someone like Congo, who has a certain religious belief, flat out saying his religious belief makes him and others like him, morally superior to those who doesn't.

His statement that if you (or all of us) believed in god, like him, there would be no problem, was a direct insult to me and many others.

Why didn't you have a problem with that? Why didn't you chastise Congo on that direct insult of people who don't believe in his diety? Why only the problem with my response.

Once again, why didn't you chastise him for that direct insult and attack on non religious people?

Answer that simple question that I asked you before. Can you?

So far you look like nothing but a hypocrate with an axe to grind.


shmeeze
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-That's neither here nor there and no there is no genocide going on, just stupid people commiting stupid acts, and if you believe in God then you will likely won't see or hear the end of it.

This seems to be the first time he mentioned God in this thread?? Is this what offended you?


shmeeze
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SPQR
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Quote:

This seems to be the first time he mentioned God in this thread?? Is this what offended you?

Can you read? Are you gonna waste my time asking me questions I already answered several times here?

He insulted non religious people by saying if everyone beleived as he does, there would be no problem.

Get it? Do you understand. It is a direct implication that because of his beliefs, he and others like him have some moral superiority over those who don't.

Do you understand english? It cant be any plainer, can it?

The fact that you are now trying to play dumb games, avoiding what I am saying, and avoiding answer the very simple question I asked shows where you are really coming from.

Cut the games, cut the bullsh*t, cut the hypocracy. We both know you can't answer my question because you really believed as you claim, you would have told him to stop insulting non religious people.

Im not stupid Shmeeze. I know exactly where you are coming from and you are proving it with your evasive dumb act here.

Answer the freaking question: Why didn't you chatise Congo when he insulted non religious people? Why?

And if you don't want to answer this simple question, quite wasting my time. And stick that lecture where it belongs, hypocrate.


shmeeze
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I didnt say you were stupid, and I'm not playing dumb.


shmeeze
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And where does should I stick that lecture?? where are you insinuating I should "stick" it??


SPQR
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Dude, your not going to answer my question because you can't. Because the answer is, you had no problem with him insulting non religious people. It didn't bother your delicate, fair, sensiblities in the least. But you had a problem with me answering him back on that insult. Thats when you suddenly cared about insulting people, right?

Stick your lecture where it belongs. Its as valid and a six dollar bill. You've wasted enough of my time with this tansparent hypocracy.


shmeeze
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Please quote the reference of religion that offended you.


SPQR
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SPQR, if you use hyperbole to establish premise, why can't I establish God as a guide for the good-people. God in any form, that prohibit the death of people.


shmeeze
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What does a belief in god have to do with this subject? Nothing. Please only use relevant information or ideas and not bring any mytholgy into this subject. This is about real things and fact.

SPQR, if you use hyperbole to establish premise, why can't I establish God as a guide for the good-people. God in any form, that prohibit the death of people.

Seems as if he was answering your question, with a question of his own. Its seems to me, the first time he mention religion, when he said "That's neither here nor there and no there is no genocide going on, just stupid people commiting stupid acts, and if you believe in God then you will likely won't see or hear the end of it."

I dont know if its me, but I understand it as he meant it as a ruse. Then it seems, you took issue with that phrase in his post and asked the question above. In which, he answered your question with a question of his own.

I guess I'm stupid and dont understand english.


SPQR
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I dont know if its me, but I understand it as he meant it as a ruse.

Well, then, let Congo explain exactly what he meant then. I will stop interpreting what he said, and you do the same. I will retract my accusations until Congo can come on here and tells us exactly what he meant with those god remarks so there is no misunderstanding on anyones part.

Then we will know. Then we can go from there. That sounds fair, doesn't it?


Axle
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OH BOY! This reminds me of the movie: THE WRATH OF THE TITANS.


Harry
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breaking news, Breitbart.com releases Obama biography by Acton & Dystel from 1991, Obamas then literary agency, which described him as born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.

Born in Hawaii my a$$......


Axle
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LMAO! Somebody has been listening to a Hannity. Just don't want to believe that this president was born in the USA. After four years in office I think you should give up and give up on anybody believing this right wing organizations. Obama will win again, so give up on your naive BS.


Harry
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lollll u can keep blindly sipping on your Obama kool aid. For example even if Obama were to admit to being born in Kenya on video people like you wouldn't believe it....And for the record i don't buy into the false left right paradigm you mention, it is used to polarize the people against each other while people like George Soros, Henry Kissinger, and Zbigniew Brzezinski can advance their agendas. Its funny how Kissingers little b!tch Barry Obama Soetoro doesn't talk about their intimate ties anymore so people don't see his true colors.

NAIVE BS LOL what i presented above is Obamas LITERARY company in 1991 describing him in a biography. It is documented fact, if you choose to disregard it because it isn't convenient, thats your problem.


SPQR
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Harry, No offense, but man, you are making yourself look like such a screwed up fool. No kidding. Obama has both the long birth certificate and short one. Both. When he was born, in Hawaii, the hospital wrote both birth certificates out. And, the local newspaper wrote up his birth in the paper the next day. See, its right there, in that issue on file. Back then. That year he was born. Its there. So for you believe what you do, somehow, a time machine has been invented (by Oamba perhaps, or maybe he is the anti christ and can manipute time) and someone went back in time and did all these things forty years later. Harry, seriously, arguing politics is one thing. And if you hate Obama fine, but when you start believing this kind of crazy nonsense that has been disabused in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY, I am starting to think something is seriously wrong with your brain. What you are doing now is like arguing the sun doesn't rise. Its like you watching the sun come up and saying, No, I don't care what is hanging in the sky, its not really there. You will end up one f*cked up young man with brains for sh*t if you don't start living a world of fact, if you keep buying into this crap that crazy people keep putting out, for other crazy people to believe. Sorry if I sound tough, Harry. I like you. But now you are crossing a line into becoming a total joke. You know, Harry, you have hammered on this guy like he is satan. You believe and spread every single piece of garbage and lies that bigoted, vicious, ignorant people put out about him. And when I see you do this, yet again, on a issue that was proven wrong and....


Harry
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lies eh? lol that birth certificate that Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio took Obama to court over because his special investigative unit found probable cause that the certificate is forged??

The birth certificate doesn't support your argument any better than my 20 year old Acton & Dystel publication promoting Obama as the author of the never released "Journeys in Black and White". The publication by Obamas literary agency clearly states he was born in Kenya.

It is not logical that a literary agent would fabricate a foreign birthplace Mr. "making yourself look like a screwed up fool"

Here are Sheriff Joe Arpaios comments on this recent news:

Quote:
“We act on facts,” Arpaio told WND today. “We started the investigation back in August and utilized my Cold Case Posse to look into documents, the birth certificate and also the Selective Service forms. We seem to have much stonewalling going on.

“But I’m not going to back down. We are continuing to investigate what we feel are fraudulent government documents. We’re going to keep going, to prove once and for all whether they are genuine,” he said.

Obama represents Goldman Sachs banking interests. Funny how Goldman Sachs bank is at the top of Obamas and Romneys campaign funders list. 1 bank funding both sides of the political spectrum. Oh, thats probably a lie too.

They paint a false left-right paradigm to polarize the masses. This is the "world of facts".


SPQR
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Ohhhh, you mean ultra right winger Joe Arpaios charges over his birth certificate? That Joe Arpaio? The one who is being charged by the DOJ of civil rights violations? That guy? And what does that mean, Harry? What if I say I think you are a pedophile Harry? What does that mean? If I do that, Harry, does that make you a pedophile? Answer me that. You know whats gonna happen to Arpaio's charge? NOTHING. Just like what happened to Trumps investigation. So Arpaio wants to exclude Obama from the Arizona ballot in the next election because he says he has problems with Obama's birth certificate? I will ask this in front of everyone here. YOU WANT TO BET MONEY THAT Arpaio's charge does NOTHING? Just like Trumps big investigation. Lets see how much you really beleive in that garbage. Put your money where your fantasies are. Lets make a bet Harry. Got the guts to do it? Lets make it a small bet. Say 200 hundred dollars that in the end, his charges do not bring up any proof, any evidence that takes Obama off the Arizona ballot in this upcoming election. You wont. You will chicken out. You know why? Because there is NOTHING to find. And you know there is nothing there. But you keep hanging onto the crazy sh*t because you hate Obama so much. You whats really sad, despite all the incontrovertable proof that he was born in Hawaii, including two birth certificates and the CONTEMPORANEOUS newspaper report of his birth, and despite the fact that Trumps investigation turned up nothing, and that Arpaio's charges will end up doing nothing, you will still latch onto and pass on any silly Obama birth story. Because you hate this African American president so much. What does that say? You know Harry, a person can....


SPQR
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Hey Harry, And all crazy nuts. Guess what? Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett has backed off of his threat to keep President Barack Obama off of the state’s ballot in November and apologized for embarrassing the state with his questions about the president’s citizenship. See Harry, after Hawaii AGAIN sent the undisputable birth certificate, he had no choice but to apologize for the fool he made out himself and his state. And actually, after that farce, he should resign. So there you go Harry. Thats what your crazy nut Joe Arpaio's big mouthing off led to. Just like Trumps. That didn't take long for the facts to shoot down your main man Arpaio, did it Harry? Just like I said. Led to NOTHING because thats where nothing leads. As for Bennet, he has nobody but himself to blame. Anyone at this time, at this late date, who does not know and understand the irrefutable proof of Obama's American birth is divorced from reality. And that is a nice, kind definition. There are actually other words that are much more fittingly applied to those people. Bennet should have told Arpaio to get lost with his nonesense crap. But he decided to go along with it in a right wing state either for political capital or he is certified moron and now he got stuck with the truth plastered all over his face and a apology to make. A fool deserves a fools end. You know, Harry, you were smart not to take me up on that bet. Gutless, but smart. But that is the one problem people like you have, when you try to throw your crazy, nutso trash out where others who live in the real word can see it. And then call you on it like I did with that bet. Let me give....


spankees
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Dang. I thought this thread died a few years ago! LMAO. I see Goldman Sachs and Rothschild are still the sponsors though.....! LOL


SPQR
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Quote:

Dang. I thought this thread died a few years ago! LMAO. I see Goldman Sachs and Rothschild are still the sponsors though.....! LOL

Val, Yes!

And Unicorns on the GOP presidential ticket and a Muslim spy Anti-Christ not born in America President. But perhaps the most interesting development is that it now it appears a certain poster is a Chinese born communist agent sent to infiltrate the west.

Lot of unusual, generous sponsers of this thread, Val, lol.


lakerfrommass
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SPQR wrote:
But perhaps the most interesting development is that it now it appears a certain poster is a Chinese born communist agent sent to infiltrate the west.

LMFAO


IhatetheCeltics
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Whether you are affiliated with the left, or the right, everyone should read "The Amateur" by Ed Klein. It gives insight into Obama from those closest to him. From childhood friends, to his doctor, to Reverend Wright, to fellow democrats and republicans. This upcoming election is a bad one, since Americans will choose between a mediocre president in Obama, and someone who will be even worse in Mitt Romney. Honestly, I felt Hillary Clinton should have challenged Obama for the democratic nomination. I always felt she was a stronger candidate than BO. She would probably beat him, and easily beat Mitt Romney.


SPQR
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Celtics, I think Hilary would make a very good president. I also suspect she has a strong desire to run in 2012 and will. She can't challenge Obama now. A sitting president doesn't get challenged by someone in their own party. It would tear the party apart. As a true politico, she understands that and would never do it. Nor would any serious politician. She will wait her next turn in four years and give it one last shot when the democratic field will once again become wide open. As for Ed Klein and his book, forget it. The guy is hack and hatchetman with an agenda. And his biggest agenda is seperate gullible people from their money with wild stories he knows they are just dying to hear about people they have animus for. His history tells it all. Fiction and propaganda are Kleins stock and trade. If you want to try get serious about Obama, then you first have to start with a serious reporter. Klein knows the fastest way to make a huge buck is do a book that feeds meat to the radical right who view Obama as some kind of deranged socialist/muslim monster. And he will make a nice buck with that stuff because so many on that side will read exactly what they want to read in it. Klein may not be an honest reporter, but he does understand how to mine money from emotions. He will laugh all the way to the bank. Anytime someone is interested in a book about a historical figure, and most especially about a politician, you need to check the bona fides of the author. Is he a reputable reporter or historian? Has he written biographies before? If so, how were they recieved? Are they respected as well researched, authenticated serious books,....


a2j1m
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Politics? Just lold , go lakers


IhatetheCeltics
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Wow, the Supreme Court upheld the Healthcare Law. That's a big win for Obama. I honestly did not think the entire thing would be upheld. I thought the Court would throw out the individual mandate provision of the plan. This changes the course of the upcoming election. Since Romney has made it a big point to criticize Obama's healthcare law, how will he proceed with that now?


Harry
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for all the obamanoids out there.....

#!


lakeshowsd
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Why anyone who isn't filthy rich would want to vote for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney (or any other Republican for that matter) is beyond me. Obama revealed how the centerpiece of Romney's economic plan is a 5 trillion dollar tax cut on top of Bush's tax cuts, with the bulk of the tax cuts going to all those people who make more than 3 million dollars per year.

How many of us really make that much money? We're talking about the top one-tenth of one percent of this country. That means that anybody who isn't a multimillionaire is completely voting against their self interests if they vote for Romney. I certainly don't want my family paying thousands of dollars of additional taxes every year just so every Joe millionaire out there can use his Republican tax breaks to buy a new f**king Ferrari. F**K THAT!

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Obama Slams Romney’s Tax Plan In Ohio

August 1st, 2012 3:31 pm Lynn Zhong

President Obama slammed Mitt Romney’s economic plan this morning, telling a crowd in Mansfield, Ohio, that they had to decide “between two fundamentally different visions for America.”

“The centerpiece of my opponent’s entire economic plan is a new $5 trillion tax cut on top of the Bush tax cuts,” Obama said. “Now, the bulk of this tax cut would go to the very top…Folks making more than $3 million a year �" the top one-tenth of one percent �" would get a tax cut worth almost a quarter of a million dollars.”

“But it gets worse,” the president warned. “Under my opponent’s plan, guess who gets the bill for these $250,000 tax cuts? You do.”

Obama used a newly released study by Tax Policy Center, a non-partisan think tank, as evidence that Romney’s proposal would place on the middle class. The study concludes that “any revenue-neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower income taxpayers.” In other words, it proves Romney’s promise that “the people at the high end will still pay the same share of the tax burden they’re paying now” to be mathematically impossible.

“They found that if Governor Romney wants to keep his word and pay for this plan, then he’d have to cut tax breaks that middle class families depend on,” Obama said. “To pay for your home: the home mortgage deduction. To pay for your health care: the health care deduction. To send your kids to college. That means the average middle class family with children, according to this study, would be hit with a tax increase of more than $2,000.”

“And here’s the thing,” the president added. “He’s not asking you to contribute more to pay down the deficit…He’s asking you to pay more so that people like him can get a big tax cut. In order to afford just one $250,000 tax cut for somebody like Mr. Romney, another 125 families like yours would have to pay another $2,000 in taxes each and every year.”

http://www.nationalmemo.com/watch-obama ... n-in-ohio/


shmeeze
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LOL, a politician stealing??? no way, i dont believe it for one second! LOL


Axle
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Lakeshowsd, I agree with your post 110%. What you posted about Romney is the truth and the guy lies all the time he opens his mouth. He claims that he created jobs when he was governor when in fact he shipped thousands of jobs to India. He was also CEO of Baine who was in the business of out sourcing jobs to other countries. He claims that the Bush tax cuts for the richest people in this country are the job creators. Only thing he does not tell you is that the jobs those three percent that get the tax breaks are creating jobs over seas, not in this country. Going over seas for the cheap labor, but yet they get the Bush tax breaks. He only wants to disclose two years of how much tax he paid and is making sure that while he was with Baine it has been reported that he did not pay any taxes, yet he was hauling in money by the millions and putting it in banks off shore to prevent from paying taxes on the interest and capital gains. Republicans are not for the middle class that is for sure. When Obama took office Bush had left this country going over a cliff losing around 750 thousand jobs every month because of companies that had flown the coup to over seas because of incentives given by the Republicans. Now after three years in office Obama has turned our economy to where we are gaining jobs back, but it can not be done in a few years what has been going on for the eight years Bush was in office. They almost put this country into another depression, and the House of Representatives is still blocking every efford Oboma puts....


Harry
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dude Axle, don't make it sound like Obama is anti war. He is also a war mongerer which is why we are at risk to ignite the Iran war. Sanctions are a very obvious pre cursor for war. Obama did his part in dismantling Libya and now Syria. It doesn't matter whether you liked Ghaddafi or not, we should not be intervening with these countries when our country is in this shape. I'm sure many of you didn't know that Libya had the best healthcare system in Africa prior to the foreign intervention. Now? Their hospitals and their cities are in pieces. But lets not blame Obama, after all he takes orders from his masters just like the rest of them. Obama and Romney are both Goldman Sachs puppets. Goldman was Obama's #1 campaign contributor in 08, and now Romneys in 2012. But it doesn't end there. Both of their major campaign funders include various big banks. What a coincidence, the stars of both parties bought out by THE SAME big banking interests. Neither one is going to address the mafia that is the Federal Reserve printing press. Romney is a notorious liar and flip flopper. Obama, well Obama always makes sure to kneel in front of his master Ben Bernanke over at the Fed. Fixing our economic woes begins with addressing the root of the problem, the private criminal banking syndicate known as the Federal Reserve, and anyone who fails to address this is unfit to run our country. Wake up people both sides are controlled by private banking interests. F**K the left F**K the right, they create a false left-right paradigm to keep the masses polarized while they control both sides from above. There are many good people on both sides of the spectrum who realize this and understand the base of our....


SPQR
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Romney is the most shameless panderer for the presidency in history. He has changed his mind so many times on so many issues, just to curry favor with whose votes he is seeking it really is a joke. His position changes, depending on the votes he seeks could fill a page. Just google Romneys position changes. It will blow your mind. One of the funniest things he is saying is that he takes big credit for Obama saving the car industry in this country. This was the guy who said, "You can't give a government bail out. Let them go bankrupt. If the government bails out the auto industry in American will be dead in two years." That is an exact quote of what he said when the bailout was considered. They guy who wants to be Prez and make these kinds of decisions. Now he says, "Yes, I think I should get much of the credit for saving the auto industry." Another quote, lol. Now he is trying to take credit for it! I mean this guy is totally shameless in the lies he will tell to get a vote. Will people believe it? I don't know. There are plenty of dumb, uninformed citizens out there. I guess he hopes to push that crap over on some of them It is also ironic, that the GOP candidate won't release years of tax returns. Even high ranking GOP members are asking him to. The reasons are obvious. He has done everything he can to skirt paying taxes even as filthy rich as he is. He also has made bundles of money from taking over companies, outsourcing jobs from those companies, then shutting them down. Its all in those taxes he is terrified to reveal. He also has an account in Switzerland, which is a....


Axle
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Harry, what I see on Obama is a man that does not like wars, but will not be intimidated by any dictator who will kill his own people to save his skin. The dictators of Libya, Syria and other middle east countries that have ruled with an iron fist do not want the people to have any power what so ever and will kill their own to save their radical dictatorships. Obama will not plunge this country into wars unless other measures like sanctions and other means fail. THEN! he is not a push over and will hit these dictators hard with what ever options were on the table. But if it was for the Republicans we would be in four wars right now. The Republicans would have put troops already on the ground in Syria, and bombarded Iran back to the stone age. Still a war going strong in Afghanistan, and they would have kept at least ten thousand troops in Iraq. I agree with SPQR that Obama is not perfect, but between him and Romney he is a much better president for the middle and lower class people in the United "States. The Republican party has changed too much in the last two decades. I was a Republican for fifty years and I used to believe that if the rich companies made money it would eventually trickle down to the working class by creating jobs. But then I noticed that these Republicans started sending all of our jobs over seas and the trickle down system did not trickle down in the U.S but in other countries which really hated the U.S. Communist countries like China, Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia never like us and would destroy us if they could, but yet the greed of the mighty....


SPQR
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Want to hear another brilliant Romney opinion that was as dumb as what he suggested for the auto industry? When both Romney and Obama were running in the primaries four years ago, Obama said he would send troops and drones into Pakistan to fight Al Qaida. Romney said you can't do that. That it showed how naive and ill prepared Obamas judgement was to be president. Well, Obama did exactly what he said he would do, decapitated Al Qaida and killed Bin Ladin.

So who was native, whose judgement was bad, who was ill prepared to be president? In this case and the auto industry, Romney as president would have made the exact wrong decisions with huge consequences. Brains, decision making and smart judgement do matter when it comes to being president.


Axle
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And now Hannity and Ann Coulter got together and they call all college students dumb and stupid for throwing their support for Obama. If anybody made an a** of herself it was Ann Coulter for calling college students dumb. She is the one that is STUPID. These people are so far to the right and are in panic mode because Obama is starting to run away in the polls that they are making Fox news the laughing stock of the news organizations.

People are starting to see the true colors of Romney. They know that he was one of the worst to out source jobs to India, but yet he lies and says he has experience on creating jobs here in this country. This man says one lie after another and the people in this country have seen right through him.


Axle
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SPQR So now Romney selects Paul Ryan as his running mate, the worst of all the evil people, he chose the worst of them all. I feel for all senior citizens if this guy gets in. He wants to eliminate Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps for the poor. Romney will not get a single vote from most senior citizens who have medicare.


SPQR
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Axle, You know, Coulter is so totally nuts, even to this day, she still writes columns defending old "Tailgunner" Joe McCarthy, the 50's Wisconsin Senator who used red baiting, smearing innocent people and ruining their lives by calling them communist agents and sympathizers, before he was finally exposed and destroyed by some very brave newsmen and a very brave lawyer at the army communist hearings McCarthy was tryiing to use to destroy more innocents for his own career. McCarthy was one of the most vicious pieces of slim to ever grace American politics. The fact that Coulter defends him speaks volumes about her. Axle, Yep, right on about Ryan. This guy is on the leading edge of right wing radical recreation of this country. He wants to get rid of medicare, put in some vouchers so we call use them to pay for private medical insurance when we get old. And if the voucher doesn't pay for all the insurance you need? Too damn bad. If the private medical insurance company doesn't pay for all the treatment you need, or denies your claims? Too damn bad. And anyone who has been forced to buy private insurance and deal with them, knows exactly what goes on in trying to get them to pay for services you were "insured" for. So what he wants to do is get rid of a great system, give you these vouchers and funnel everyone to his masters, the insurance industries and big business. Big surprise there. Even without the problems I mentioned above, the congressional budget office estimates this plan to cost seniors over 6 grand a year more than they spend now on health care. A YEAR. And along with that, he wants to give big business and the rich in this country even more tax breaks! All part....


lakeshowsd
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There's just so little fairness and equality with the tax system in this country and I think it's a major problem. I don't understand why the Super-Rich have to pay a lower percentage of taxes than the rest of us, and it's obvious that most of us in America are being played for suckers. For example, the average working American pays anywhere from 33% to 41% in tax rates, while the Super wealthy person pays less than 20%. How is this fair? Why can't all the Super Rich top one-tenth of one percent in America pay 33% to 41% in taxes....


shmeeze
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Just curious LSD, what would you do to fix our tax problem. Obviously, we have a serious problem with our tax code. Any Ideas anybody?????


shmeeze
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Nevermind LSD, I see that you updated your post. thanks.


Axle
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So the Republicans have nominated Mitt Romney as their candidate to run against President Obama. The convention speakers have been a joke to say the least. Mrs Romney trying her best to make her husband look like he come from an average home. Also trying to get the sympathy vote by letting the whole world know about her illnesses. What these speakers don't tell the voters is that Romney was CEO of Bain corporation, a company that specialized on out sourcing jobs to India and China. How can a person like Romney be trusted when he was deep in with big corporations to gut the shops they had in this country laying thousands of employees and sending the jobs over seas. How can he say that he will create jobs, when he has, but not for American workers in this country. He does not want to release his tax returns because his lawyers are telling him that will doom him once the voters find out that he was raking in the millions and paying less percentage then his secretaries. He has large accounts in Swedish banks and in the islands off the coast of the U.S. to avoid capital gains taxes. Now we are talking about a man that wants to be president of the United States and yet he is the biggest crook that the Republicans could have nominated. And then to top it off he selects the worst person as his running mate. The two will destroy this country for the middle class as we have known it. They would eliminate Medicare and make it a voucher program, where they would give you some money in a voucher form and you have to get a private insurance for yourself and your family. It....


SPQR
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Axle, I see as a political junkie and responsible citizen you have been following the GOP convention. I have too. I watch both conventions, every year they are held. I was especially interested in Paul Ryan's speech tonight and he did not disappoint. This guy is totally trying to reinvent himself. And the only way he can do it is if enough citizens don't know his mile wide track record. And he has one since his whole life he has been nothing but a career politician. The exact same type of career politician he rails against when attacking democrats.i If you didn't know any thing about Ryan, and watched him toniight, you would get a good impression from him. Seemingly straight forward, intelligent, honest in talking about the countries problems. But if you know Paul Ryan, his record, the REAL Ryan, then his speech became a big load of lies, untruths and distortions. He railed against government spending under Obama. He cloaks himself under the guise as Mr. Fiscal Responsibility. But if you do know Ryan, you know he was hand in glove with all the spending rammed through by George Bush including the prescription drug program, two wars, including the rotten war in Iraq that was not even paid for. That we have to pay for now, by borrowing money from China. He also voted for the infamous bridge to nowhere money in Alaska. He rails against Obama's stimulus package, yet specifically asked the federal government for stimulus money for his home state. He was part of the Bush GOP congress that took the country from the black, inherited from Clinton, to the deep red by the time Bush was done throwing money around left and right and also cutting the taxes on the top two percent with took hundreds of billions from....


mambamonk87
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It's been...interesting to watch Romney shoot himself in the foot over and over and over (there's pretty much just a stub left). I thought it was particularly telling when I read an article about a lifelong Republican that said Romney's comments about the "47%" were painful to hear and made him feel alienated by his own party. Well, there you go, we see once again how out of touch the Republican party is with the lower and middle classes of America. Any dissection of that 47% (2/3 of these people pay payroll taxes and the rest of them are the elderly and people earning less than $20,000 a year) simply exposes Mr. Romney's misguided perceptions about the American people...and for him to complain about people who receive welfare is ridiculously hypocritical, as his father received welfare when he first came to America as well.

By the way - has anyone heard about the "Jon Stewart v. Bill O'Reilly" debate? I'm definitely not a fan of the two-party dialogue that goes on in this country (I recently re-registered as an unaffiliated voter due to my own issues with the Democratic party) but this event has the potential to be very entertaining. I think they're calling it "The Rumble In The Air-Conditioned Auditorium" and that it'll be available via Pay-Per-View or online as a stream.


SPQR
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Jason, What Romney said in private to his rich donor friends, his peers, was very instructive. He believes anyone not paying federal taxes, not federal payroll tax mind you, we all pay that into medicare and SS, but anyone who doesn't pay more, which would include low income people, middle class and those on SS in old age, those who have ever needed something, like college loans, or food stamps, or any kind of government help at all, is a useless leech. Someone who thinks they are a victim. Who feels like they are "entitled to health care, food and roof over their heads." Thats his exact quote. That is the total distain and contempt he and the GOP feel for plain, average Americans. You know, like you and I. Um no Mitt, thats not how they feel. They don't feel like victims who feel entitled to getting things. You need food, healtcare and a roof to survive. And because you don't make a high income bracket to be taxed like the rich, that means you feel like your a victim and he (Romney) will never convince you to take care of yourself? Lol. This guy and that party is so whacked out, so out of touch with reality its not even funny. And remember, this clown who is talking about how 47 percent of the people feel like they are victims and want to live off super stars like Romney is the same guy who just showed he paid barely 14 percent on taxes last year! Which is lower than a middle class person pays!! And he says they are the people who want entitlements! This the is the same guy who has all kinds of off seas accounts to avoid taxes, who is hiding so much tax avoidance that....


Axle
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SPQR, Very good post and you are right on the money discribing Mitt Romney. When they recorded the statement he made of what he thought of the 47 percent, that really showed that the man is not for all Americans. He is for the fat cats and they will spend billions of dollars to get this clown into office. The good thing is that Americans are not stupid and they can see what his true colors are.


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